Thai company to own a house and relationship future

[onekoolguy]

On 3/6/2021 at 8:58 AM, tonray said:

If you have to ask these questions now...you're with the wrong girl

It doesn't matter how long you are with a woman. When things go bad they can justify any abuse, physical or financial, that they can bestow upon you!

[onekoolguy]

On 3/6/2021 at 9:42 AM, WhatsNext said:

 

The house i am interested in does 70k in rent at the moment, well at least that is the asking price from the project. Buying is 11M. It just makes economic sense. If i could rent the place at half price i wouldn't even think a second about buying it. It's not the girl that is pushing for it in my case. But ill check about the 3 year possibility, thanks for that.

 

And as for condo's : I can't live in those boxes, even the nice ones have 9 neighbors around them, always someone sneezing, music, renovations, walking with high heels and so on. It's a nightmare, for me at least.

 

In Hua Hin, I am looking at houses. In 2 days I found 2 great very large homes that were reduced from around 10mil. To 4 million. They are not new and not perfect but you get the idea? Almost nobody buying now and some sellers getting desperate! 

I am looking at buying and doing a 30 year lease back.

[WhatsNext]

25 minutes ago, onekoolguy said:

In Hua Hin, I am looking at houses. In 2 days I found 2 great very large homes that were reduced from around 10mil. To 4 million. They are not new and not perfect but you get the idea? Almost nobody buying now and some sellers getting desperate! 

Oh i get the idea, i have been looking at websites, agencies, facebook, bahtsold and so on and i can't find any amazing deals like that. I know the house type that you are talking about, they have never been 10m before.... As soon as i find an Aria/Clouds/Banyan/Hillside for 4m ill be signing the contract right this minute. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by WhatsNext

[Tropposurfer]

On 3/6/2021 at 12:34 PM, WhatsNext said:

Here in Hua Hin the big projects still use a Thai company for ownership of a house, currently i am being told that the land office accepts 35% ownership. So let's say i am stupid enough to go through with it and make my TGF of 2 years 49% owner of the company, myself the 35% and the lawyer office the remaining. I'll be the director and have more than half of the votes so i can control. 

 

Now my question : after some time the relationship with TGF goes down the drain, how can i sell the company without her consent ? 

The project developer said that all thai owners pre sign a paper for shares transfer without a date and that problem doesn't exist. Yet i also read that Thai ID cards are only valid for a certain number of years and if that time has passed the new ID card should be there for the signature to be valid ?

 

Can someone shed some light on this, in a nutshell - Can i sell the company/house after a relationship goes sour without her having to be there to sign it away ?

Contact Sandra at 'Ocean World Property' - Bang Tao, Phuket she can guide and advise perfectly, simply, and legally how to own the land your home is on in Thailand: [email protected] +66 76 325 986

 

[khunPer]

On 3/6/2021 at 2:34 AM, WhatsNext said:

Now my question : after some time the relationship with TGF goes down the drain, how can i sell the company without her consent ? 

The project developer said that all thai owners pre sign a paper for shares transfer without a date and that problem doesn't exist. Yet i also read that Thai ID cards are only valid for a certain number of years and if that time has passed the new ID card should be there for the signature to be valid ?

Can someone shed some light on this, in a nutshell - Can i sell the company/house after a relationship goes sour without her having to be there to sign it away ?

As long as your TGF, or ex. TGF, still is registered as owner of the shares, the 49 percent, if that's her ownership allowance, of any money from selling the company limited is hers, as you are selling the shares, when you are selling a company limited.

In principle nominee shareholders are illegal to use, but so far I haven't heard about any cases with smaller properties, i.e. homes, where the companies have been scrutinized. However, that's not a future guarantee.

About the 35 percent foreign ownership is only when transferring and registering a title deed to the company limited. As soon as the title deed is registered, you can change the foreign ownership to 49 percent, which is the normal practice.

An often used method to control votes is issuing preferred shares. There are to my knowledge two used methods (your lawyer might know other methods)...

1) Where the foreigner owns a number of preferred shares with 10 votes for each share of for example nominal 1,000 baht, whilst normal shares have one vote per nominal 1,000 baht;

–or 2) where a small amount of preferred shares, lets say 3 percent, have no voting rights against a guaranteed dividend of for example 4 percent of the nominel share-value, which will give a foreign owner 49 percent of the votes, and one or more Thai owners 48 percent of the votes, whilst one Thai owner sits on 3 percent shares without voting rights, i.e. the foreign shareholder has the majority of the votes.

About the validity of a TGF's ID-card, one should perhaps always keep some signed photocopies as backup...

[khunPer]

On 3/6/2021 at 2:58 AM, WhatsNext said:

...i dont want to be dependend on a TGF that could meet Brad Pitt one day and dissapear. 

That's the risk all of us with TGFs (or wives) are risking, that someone more handsum – i.e. younger good looking, and most important loaded, guy – shows up.

On the other hand, the Thai ladies are risking that a younger and more sexy, gorgeous model suddenly appears and catch her sponsor's attention; and that also happens.

Protection methods seems to go both ways.

[khunPer]

On 3/6/2021 at 3:42 AM, WhatsNext said:

The house i am interested in does 70k in rent at the moment, well at least that is the asking price from the project. Buying is 11M. It just makes economic sense. If i could rent the place at half price i wouldn't even think a second about buying it. It's not the girl that is pushing for it in my case. But ill check about the 3 year possibility, thanks for that.

Your rent vs buying option is 13 years, without taking interest loss and maintenance costs into consideration.

An often overseen figure when talking about buying a home in Thailand is how long time you can rent a similar property, for the same amount of money. In many cases it's around 15 years, so after 15 years lease or rent, you have nothing; whilst after 15 years of ownership you (might) still have some accessable value, at least the value of the land.

In other words, if you for whatever reason walks away from a property, where the buying price, and associated costs like interest loss and maintenance, equals the cost of lease/rent, you haven't lost anything.

[khunPer]

On 3/6/2021 at 10:06 AM, Delight said:

If in the future should you wish to dispose of your assets you will simply transfer your share allocation and your voting rights to another foreigner. That other foreigner will become the new MD. You do this transfer for the price of the house.

The Land office and all the other shares are not involved. They stay where they were before.

If you give your GF 24% of the share allocation she will want 24% of the sales price. Her shares -to repeat myself-have not moved. They have not been sold. She is entitled to zero.

Thanks, interesting point, any experience if it works for real?

[crazykopite]

When a foreigner comes to live in Thailand long term with the wish to purchase a property especially via the company route then they should be prepared to lose there investment should it all go belly up there is an alternative and that is to rent I’ve been down the company route twice one I sold on with ni issues and my current company has two properties I live in one and the other is for short term rental whether you choose to rent it or not is up to the individual 

[scorecard]

On 3/6/2021 at 12:34 PM, WhatsNext said:

Here in Hua Hin the big projects still use a Thai company for ownership of a house, currently i am being told that the land office accepts 35% ownership. So let's say i am stupid enough to go through with it and make my TGF of 2 years 49% owner of the company, myself the 35% and the lawyer office the remaining. I'll be the director and have more than half of the votes so i can control. 

 

Now my question : after some time the relationship with TGF goes down the drain, how can i sell the company without her consent ? 

The project developer said that all thai owners pre sign a paper for shares transfer without a date and that problem doesn't exist. Yet i also read that Thai ID cards are only valid for a certain number of years and if that time has passed the new ID card should be there for the signature to be valid ?

 

Can someone shed some light on this, in a nutshell - Can i sell the company/house after a relationship goes sour without her having to be there to sign it away ?

Lawyers office owns 16% of the shares in the company?

Why?  I don't see any valid, valuable or strategic reason to do this. I don't believe that the lawyers office holding any % of the shares in the company is required by any Thai law. But it would be a way for the lawyer to keep 'his finger in the pie', perhaps want a big payout before he would sign any later sales documents or whatever.(Would you trust a lawyer (Thai or Western) comes to mind.)

I'm not sure if it's still the law that A Thai company must have at least 2 Thai shareholders? It was when I did this, but that's 30+ years ago.

My lawyer asked me to find 1 additional Thai person that he did not know, so the %'s were:

- Wife                             50%

- Extra  Thai person      1%

- Foreigner                   49%

Wife, myself and the 1 extra Thai person signed the documents for transfer of share ownership (if needed) but not dated, and I kept all the copies of these documents. 

Yes Thai ID cards do need to be replaced every x years (I forget the number of years). But if the card expires that doesn't mean the company collapses or a contract collapses but it would mean that any further usage of any of these documents documents would have to show the updated card details (updated expiry date).

Edited March 11, 2021 by scorecard

[sead]

On 3/6/2021 at 2:58 AM, WhatsNext said:

 

I know the companies are illegal, however 90% of the houses here in Hua Hin are structured that way. A lease or usefruct is a possiblity but i dont want to be dependend on a TGF that could meet Brad Pitt one day and dissapear. 

Sadly i hate condo's.

You also have houses that can be in your name only. Just don't let gf register in book

[Seeall]

On 3/6/2021 at 8:49 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Not if she's part owner, all she needs to do is see a lawyer and persue money. These fake companies are illegal anyway. 

 

Get a condo in your name, otherwise you are stuck with the GF or you end up losing half the house at least

Nonsence ..... get a thai you know of, buy him a beer and get a copy of his id ... a GF who knows of you affairs is not a good idea...

dont let the person know of your law office... dont tell them anything... illegal?  I love how people fling that word around when

most things are so even the goverment...

[Seeall]

On 3/6/2021 at 9:03 AM, NCC1701A said:

A lease or a usefruct are the way you could possibly "own" a house without having to have your girlfriend involved. A lease is best. 

 

and in Hua Hin she would most likely be meeting me. 

you dont HAVE to have GF involved at all!  best not to anyways..

[Seeall]

On 3/6/2021 at 9:40 AM, bkk6060 said:

I would never have anyone Thai on any of these type agreements. Especially a TGF..

Why are so many dead set on owning a house and adding all these complications?

And when the truth is told it is usually the Thai girls idea isn't it.

Rents are way down now my buddy got such a great monthly deal recently he actually structured a 3 year lease at about 1/2 the asking price.

 

 

1/2 is not that great...

[Seeall]

On 3/6/2021 at 8:34 AM, WhatsNext said:

Here in Hua Hin the big projects still use a Thai company for ownership of a house, currently i am being told that the land office accepts 35% ownership. So let's say i am stupid enough to go through with it and make my TGF of 2 years 49% owner of the company, myself the 35% and the lawyer office the remaining. I'll be the director and have more than half of the votes so i can control. 

 

Now my question : after some time the relationship with TGF goes down the drain, how can i sell the company without her consent ? 

The project developer said that all thai owners pre sign a paper for shares transfer without a date and that problem doesn't exist. Yet i also read that Thai ID cards are only valid for a certain number of years and if that time has passed the new ID card should be there for the signature to be valid ?

 

Can someone shed some light on this, in a nutshell - Can i sell the company/house after a relationship goes sour without her having to be there to sign it away ?

you need to read up on things buddy....  your directorship is easy to sign over to another... boom done...nothing to do with the shareholders..

[KhaoYai]

On 3/6/2021 at 1:34 AM, WhatsNext said:

Now my question : after some time the relationship with TGF goes down the drain, how can i sell the company without her consent ? 

I think you are aware that the type of ownership you are talking about is almost certainly illegal?  However, if the company was legal it depends on the structure of the company - you can set it up in many ways. Set up correctly, with total voting rights you can more or less do what you want.

However, and this is one way that an illegal company can come unstuck, if you do try to sell the company against the wishes of the other shareholders and they see a lawyer, the illegal ownership would come to light and you could lose your whole investment.

[KhaoYai]

On 3/6/2021 at 1:58 AM, tonray said:

If you have to ask these questions now...you're with the wrong girl

Come on, nobody can see the future.  Its quite understandable for a foreigner to try and protect his investment should things go wrong - there is no legal protection for a foreigner in Thailand as there would be in his home country.

[scorecard]

42 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I think you are aware that the type of ownership you are talking about is almost certainly illegal?  However, if the company was legal it depends on the structure of the company - you can set it up in many ways. Set up correctly, with total voting rights you can more or less do what you want.

However, and this is one way that an illegal company can come unstuck, if you do try to sell the company against the wishes of the other shareholders and they see a lawyer, the illegal ownership would come to light and you could lose your whole investment.

Additionally the comments from the lawyers to put 16% ownership with them would get me out of their very very quickly. A real danger signal.  

[scorecard]

35 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Come on, nobody can see the future.  Its quite understandable for a foreigner to try and protect his investment should things go wrong - there is no legal protection for a foreigner in Thailand as there would be in his home country.

There is the point that many girls get great even frightening demands put on them from other family members, and it may not happen first up but suddenly appears when the rest of the family / one family member decides that they want a 'share' of the 'pot of gold'. 

[ericthai]

14 hours ago, Tropposurfer said:

Contact Sandra at 'Ocean World Property' - Bang Tao, Phuket she can guide and advise perfectly, simply, and legally how to own the land your home is on in Thailand: [email protected] +66 76 325 986

 

There is no legal way for a foreigner to "own" land no matter what you are told. Sure there are lawyers that setup companies for house ownership but this is not legal.

Like many things in Thailand just because it's ignored at this time doesn't mean it will be like that forever. Every 10 years or so something pops up in the news about someone having an issue owning a house via a company. 

OP unless you're ok to just walk away and loose the house if something happens or spend allot of money defending your actions to hold on to the house I would just rent. I'm not saying you will have problems, just that this is Thailand and what is ok today is not always ok tomorrow.  A good example is overstaying. The Thai government used to care less 15-20 years ago if you overstayed 1-2 days or 2-3 months no big deal. Try overstaying today. 

Good luck and hope you find what you're looking for!

 

[WhatsNext]

Spoke with someguy yesterday who had did the company thing and added another layer where he leased the house from his own company. This of course adds some costs to register the lease at the land office. He stated that in this way he would be a bit more safe. Interesting, if a little costly, constuction

[AlfHuy]

On 3/11/2021 at 12:58 PM, khunPer said:

That's the risk all of us with TGFs (or wives) are risking, that someone more handsum – i.e. younger good looking, and most important loaded, guy – shows up.

On the other hand, the Thai ladies are risking that a younger and more sexy, gorgeous model suddenly appears and catch her sponsor's attention; and that also happens.

Protection methods seems to go both ways.

House on wheels.

[khunPer]

On 3/11/2021 at 4:35 PM, ericthai said:

There is no legal way for a foreigner to "own" land no matter what you are told.

Yes, there is, is you use the "investor visa"-option, a foreigner can own up to one rai.

Furthermore, if you invest under BOI you might be able to negotiate rights for a private property.

On 3/11/2021 at 4:35 PM, ericthai said:

Sure there are lawyers that setup companies for house ownership but this is not legal.

To a certain degree it depends of the company having other activities than owning a plot of land, leased/rented out to a major shareholder.

[MadMuhammad]

On 3/6/2021 at 9:42 AM, WhatsNext said:

 

The house i am interested in does 70k in rent at the moment, well at least that is the asking price from the project. Buying is 11M. It just makes economic sense. If i could rent the place at half price i wouldn't even think a second about buying it. It's not the girl that is pushing for it in my case. But ill check about the 3 year possibility, thanks for that.

 

And as for condo's : I can't live in those boxes, even the nice ones have 9 neighbors around them, always someone sneezing, music, renovations, walking with high heels and so on. It's a nightmare, for me at least.

 

I’m with you bud, condos are awful and townhouses not much better. I recently bought a 3 bed, 3 bath home for 5mil, discounted from 6.5 and I’m absolutely loving life. 
One second and I’ll just strap my hard hat on..... purchased 100% in my wife’s name...... 

[ericthai]

23 hours ago, khunPer said:

Yes, there is, is you use the "investor visa"-option, a foreigner can own up to one rai.

Furthermore, if you invest under BOI you might be able to negotiate rights for a private property.

To a certain degree it depends of the company having other activities than owning a plot of land, leased/rented out to a major shareholder.

Sure if you have 40 million Baht for the investor visa you can. yes, a foreign company under BOI can own land but you cant start a BOI company to just own a land.