Eight killed in Atlanta-area shooting rampage; suspect arrested

[EVENKEEL]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The reality is, for many parents, that discussion has to include the warming that any interaction with the police is a moment during which your life is at risk.

 

That discussion should include respect for police. Don't sass them, don't fight them, don't reach for knives, guns or anything which would give the impression of having a weapon. Anyone, any color who does any of these things run the risk of loss of life.

[Smithson]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The reality is, for many parents, that discussion has to include the warming that any interaction with the police is a moment during which your life is at risk.

 

Are you referring to the US? In which case the problem is racism and the proliferation of guns. 

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, Smithson said:

Are you referring to the US? In which case the problem is racism and the proliferation of guns. 

2 very big problems.  Here's what black parents have to do with their children.  Sucks.  But it's reality.  And something white people don't get.  Especially MAGA members.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_talk_(racism_in_the_United_States)

[Smithson]

4 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

If you are white, you don't get it.....what's your race?

Are you 

 

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

2 very big problems.  Here's what black parents have to do with their children.  Sucks.  But it's reality.  And something white people don't get.  Especially MAGA members.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_talk_(racism_in_the_United_States)

It's a reality in the US, a single country.

 

Many posters seem to be referring purely to the US, without stating such.

The world is a big place. Some say it's racist not to be inclusive.

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Especially MAGA members.

All they do is shout ......it's wokeism.........it's cancel culture..........when all they are concerned about is their inherited highly privileged status 

[Eric Loh]

9 minutes ago, Smithson said:

Are you referring to the US? In which case the problem is racism and the proliferation of guns. 

Total agreement but add that the nation leaders and media have the moral responsibilities to stand up against racism and guns. Alas it is lacking and is worst that it is being exploited and hijacked for political expediency and power. 

[Bluespunk]

30 minutes ago, Smithson said:

It's not the legislation they are talking about, but attitudes to sex work and how over policing puts sex workers at risk.

Ideology was their headline, not mine.

"Nor does it argue the notion that discussing racism leads to more racism"

Correct that's my opinion. The article talks a lot about racism, but also other factors. While racism is a huge problem, it's not the only one. In this case attitudes to sex work are relevant, but people in this thread don't seem to acknowledge that.

You claimed that working against trafficking endangers sex workers in the post you made, the article you linked to this statement says no such thing.

[Smithson]

14 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

You claimed that working against trafficking endangers sex workers in the post you made, the article you linked to this statement says no such thing.

I claimed no such thing, pls provide a quote.

Here's something from Amnesty International (their words not mine):

"Regardless of their intention, laws against buying sex and against the organisation of sex work can harm sex workers.

They often mean that sex workers have to take more risks to protect buyers from detection by the police.

For example, sex workers have told us about feeling pressured to visit customers’ homes so that buyers can avoid the police – meaning sex workers have less control and may have to compromise their safety."

https://www.amnesty.org/en/qa-policy-to-protect-the-human-rights-of-sex-workers/

[Chomper Higgot]

46 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

That discussion should include respect for police. Don't sass them, don't fight them, don't reach for knives, guns or anything which would give the impression of having a weapon. Anyone, any color who does any of these things run the risk of loss of life.

I wonder why you brought ‘color’ into this, I never mentioned it.

Do you know something I don’t?

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[Bluespunk]

 

4 hours ago, Smithson said:

The world seem obsessed by issues or race. At times I think it creates more racism.

A good article about the shootings and how anti trafficking ideology endangers sex workers.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/18/atlanta-spa-shootings-anti-sex-worker-racism-sexism

 

27 minutes ago, Smithson said:

I claimed no such thing, pls provide a quote.

Here's something from Amnesty International (their words not mine):

"Regardless of their intention, laws against buying sex and against the organisation of sex work can harm sex workers.

They often mean that sex workers have to take more risks to protect buyers from detection by the police.

For example, sex workers have told us about feeling pressured to visit customers’ homes so that buyers can avoid the police – meaning sex workers have less control and may have to compromise their safety."

https://www.amnesty.org/en/qa-policy-to-protect-the-human-rights-of-sex-workers/

Quote requested at top.

 

Again that amnesty report does not argue against anti trafficking laws.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Bluespunk

[Smithson]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

 

 

Quote requested at top.

 

Again that amnesty report does not argue against anti trafficking laws.

The reference I made was to anti trafficking ideology, as that was in The Guardian's headlines. Ideology is about ideas, although I do agree it wasn't explained fully in the article. Trafficking is synonymous with sex work in the US, anti trafficking is really about abolishing sex work (pls don't ask me to explain, Google first). Amnesty, HRW and a heap of others support decriminalization of sex work, while both sides of politics in the US are for abolition. Sex workers in the US have little support and are extremely marginalized, which I think endangers them. Other countries do it much better, the US would do well to consider outside approaches for many issues.

[Bluespunk]

Just now, Smithson said:

The reference I made was to anti trafficking ideology, as that was in The Guardian's headlines. Ideology is about ideas, although I do agree it wasn't explained fully in the article. Trafficking is synonymous with sex work in the US, anti trafficking is really about abolishing sex work (pls don't ask me to explain, Google first). Amnesty, HRW and a heap of others support decriminalization of sex work, while both sides of politics in the US are for abolition. Sex workers in the US have little support and are extremely marginalized, which I think endangers them. Other countries do it much better, the US would do well to consider outside approaches for many issues.

It wasn't fully explained in the article because the article has nothing to do with trafficking.

 

Trafficking legislation and the laws against sex work are two different issues.

 

Sex workers may be forced by personal circumstances into this trade, the legislation against trafficking is aimed at stopping the forcing of people into sexual slavery.

[Smithson]

18 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

It wasn't fully explained in the article because the article has nothing to do with trafficking.

Trafficking legislation and the laws against sex work are two different issues.

They are extremely interlinked, with sex trafficking often being used to describe prostitution/sex work in the US. This is from Thailand, but was the first thing I found Googling.

"For the past ten years sex workers in Thailand have had our human rights violated under the guise of implementing anti-trafficking law and policy. We have experienced an onslaught of slander vilifying our entire industry; violent police raids on our workplaces, arbitrary detention, forced rehabilitation in government shelters and deportation. ... People still do not know about or understand how current anti-trafficking practices are not only abusing the rights of individuals, but are a huge barrier to our efforts to further reduce exploitation in our industry. "

http://www.empowerfoundation.org/sexy_file/Hit and Run RATSW Eng online.pdf

Quote

Sex workers may be forced by personal circumstances into this trade, the legislation against trafficking is aimed at stopping the forcing of people into sexual slavery.

 

Like all jobs, sex workers do it for a variety of reasons. Anti trafficking laws are used to attack voluntary sex work. Very few of the organizations working against trafficking would hold the same view as Amnesty, HRW etc. towards sex work.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Smithson

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

There are dozens of reports about this.  Google is your friend.  Stunning your not aware of this.

Research "the talk" also.  It's what black parents have to have with their kids after they reach the age where they are going out alone a lot.  Sucks.

I'll take that as a no.

[Bluespunk]

16 minutes ago, Smithson said:

They are extremely interlinked, with sex trafficking often being used to describe prostitution/sex work in the US. This is from Thailand, but was the first thing I found Googling.

"For the past ten years sex workers in Thailand have had our human rights violated under the guise of implementing anti-trafficking law and policy. We have experienced an onslaught of slander vilifying our entire industry; violent police raids on our workplaces, arbitrary detention, forced rehabilitation in government shelters and deportation. ... People still do not know about or understand how current anti-trafficking practices are not only abusing the rights of individuals, but are a huge barrier to our efforts to further reduce exploitation in our industry. "

http://www.empowerfoundation.org/sexy_file/Hit and Run RATSW Eng online.pdf

 

Like all jobs, sex workers do it for a variety of reasons. Anti trafficking laws are used to attack voluntary sex work. Very few of the organizations working against trafficking would hold the same view as Amnesty, HRW etc. towards sex work.

Do not agree with your premise at all. Trafficking and the criminalisation of sex workers are very different issues. 
 

Nonetheless the article you quoted does not mention or focus on trafficking. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Bluespunk

[Smithson]

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Do not agree with your premise at all.
 

Nonetheless the article you quoted does not mention or focus on trafficking. 

You could try researching and see why so many have the view that anti-trafficking is synonymous with anti-sex work. It seems to be one of those issues that people desperately want to believe in, like it makes them feel better about themselves.

I think I posted two links, both of which mention trafficking.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Smithson

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, Smithson said:

You could try researching and see why so many have the view that anti-trafficking is synonymous with anti-sex work. It seems to be one of those issues that people desperately want to believe in, like it makes them feel better about themselves.

I think I posted two links, both of which mention trafficking.

The guardian article is not in any way shape or form about trafficking. 
 

Already made clear what I think about trafficking and criminalising sex work being the same issue. 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, Smithson said:

Are you 

 

It's a reality in the US, a single country.

 

Many posters seem to be referring purely to the US, without stating such.

The world is a big place. Some say it's racist not to be inclusive.

Mixed, but look white. My father's side are native American Indians. He was born on the rez and I've got MANY relatives there. They called my father "breed" in college. He's told lots of stories about his issues.

Again, if you are white, you probably don't understand. I only do because of my father and his relatives stories.

My indian name is white weasel.  LOL

[Smithson]

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Already made clear what I think about trafficking and criminalising sex work being the same issue. 

Sex workers are human too and deserved to be listened to. But don't be too concerned, everyone's entitled to an opinion.

"People still do not know about or understand how current anti-trafficking practices are not only abusing the rights of individuals, but are a huge barrier to our efforts to further reduce exploitation in our industry. "

 

[Smithson]

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Again, if you are white, you probably don't understand.

Or if you're not American

[Jeffr2]

30 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I'll take that as a no.

I'll take that as you being lazy.

[Jeffr2]

Just now, Smithson said:

Or if you're not American

That's a strange comment.

[Smithson]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

That's a strange comment.

Not really, non-American's aren't likely to understand issues surrounding native Americans. In general there seems to be an expectation that everyone in the world has to try to understand what it's like to be a minority in America, while Americans themselves know little about other countries.

[Bluespunk]

deleted. Wrong post quoted. 
 

Sorry Jeff2

Edited March 20, 2021 by Bluespunk

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, Smithson said:

Not really, non-American's aren't likely to understand issues surrounding native Americans. In general there seems to be an expectation that everyone in the world has to try to understand what it's like to be a minority in America, while Americans themselves know little about other countries.

I’m not sure most Americans understand very much about the issues surround native Americans.

Worse still, the evidence is a sizable number of Americans get wound up and go all ‘but I’m the victim’ when ever the issues surrounding the experience of minority groups within American society are even raised for discussion.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I had the talk with my son as all parents should. Mine went like never consent freely to any search, in your car or at home. Never, never, never. But for many it should include respecting the police and do what they tell you when they tell you. Don't resist. 

And the good thing is that most people living outside of the USA don't need to have that talk with their kids, since these issues are only related to the US.

[Bluespunk]

13 minutes ago, Smithson said:

Sex workers are human too and deserved to be listened to. But don't be too concerned, everyone's entitled to an opinion.

"People still do not know about or understand how current anti-trafficking practices are not only abusing the rights of individuals, but are a huge barrier to our efforts to further reduce exploitation in our industry. "

 

I support the decriminalisation of sex workers, not that I support the sex industry. That is a different and much more complex issue than the one this thread is about.
 

Nonetheless trafficking was not the focus of the guardian article you linked to.  

Edited March 20, 2021 by Bluespunk

[Smithson]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

And the good thing is that most people living outside of the USA don't need to have that talk with their kids, since these issues are only related to the US.

And this can't be stated enough. The world is far to focused on the problems of the USA.

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

I'll take that as you being lazy.

There is no study. If I was claiming all these studies existed I would link to at least one, you refuse. 

I ask you you links that support your claims and you refuse. 

Now you want to blame me for your inability to support your position and call me lazy. I think it safe to assume no such support will be provided by you or anyone as it likely does not exist.

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, Smithson said:

Not really, non-American's aren't likely to understand issues surrounding native Americans. In general there seems to be an expectation that everyone in the world has to try to understand what it's like to be a minority in America, while Americans themselves know little about other countries.

I think you would have to change your text to 'non-native American's aren't likely to understand issues surrounding native Americans.', IMO a vast majority of non-native Americans has no idea about the issues.