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[Misab]

Is AstraZeneca Vaccine second Class?

 

BBC announce 17^th of March that new wide collection of data shows AstraZeneca doesn’t live up to previous announcement but only cover you 62%

 

//Edit by Maestro: FAKE NEWS; no link to alleged source.

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Maestro
see edit note

[donnacha]

I swear to God, at this stage, I would happily inject ANY vaccine directly into my penis if that is what it took to get one.

 

[lopburi3]

It would be helpful to provide links for quotes as these are direct quotes further down from a current BBC report. 

Quote

No-one who received the Oxford vaccine was hospitalised or became seriously ill due to Covid.

Quote

A recent study found a single dose of the Oxford vaccine offered 76% protection for three months, and this went up to 82% after the second dose.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55302595

[phetphet]

I think it in less effective against some of the new mutations, i.e. SA variant, but still Ok against the earlier strains.

Bearing in mind all these vaccines were pretty much rushed out, and considering that this virus mutates all the time, I think they did a pretty good job.

Every pharmaceutical company in the world is probably racing to find the best vaccine, with all the money to be made.

https://www.biospace.com/article/despite-extremely-rare-blood-clotting-many-countries-halting-astrazeneca-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-distribution/

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by phetphet

[Pib]

The AstraZeneca vaccine is probably not the most effective but it's low cost and easy to store which is important for many parts of the world.  Personally, I would like to get the Moderna or Pfizer vaccinee....hopefully they will become available in Thai private hospitals over the coming months but at a price.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55212787

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

The AstraZeneca vaccine is probably not the most effective but it's low cost and easy to store which is important for many parts of the world.  Personally, I would like to get the Moderna or Pfizer vaccinee....hopefully they will become available in Thai private hospitals over the coming months but at a price.  

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55212787

One  very important items re above is that cost of AstraZeneca was for limited time only.  This is scheduled to be about $30 when produced in Thailand in June and worldwide price will likely be in that area.

[sezze]

Some new mutations are certainly bringing the better and lesser good vaccines on the surface . However , at the moment , any vaccine is better then no vaccine . If you can choose , there prob are better choices ( or it looks like that ... ) but there is no choice . Let's 1st get it all under control and while all data can be checked and see how big the mutations play in those numbers , to search for the best vaccine possible . And let's not forget then the 62% prob is against infection , is that number also the same for severe/deathly effects . A couple of days sick at home is not the same as a visit to hospital on ventilator .

[phetphet]

Not forgetting the newer Johnson & Johnson single dose vaccine. Now authorised by the WHO.

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

One  very important items re above is that cost of AstraZeneca was for limited time only.  This is scheduled to be about $30 when produced in Thailand in June and worldwide price will likely be in that area.

Wouldn't surprise me....and then the Thai hospital might add the "3 times markup" pricing for farangs. 

[Pib]

 

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-how-do-the-pfizer-oxford-moderna-novavax-and-johnson-johnson-coronavirus-vaccines-compare-12202329

 

 

[jvs]

At this point i would accept any approved covid vaccine available,

I am sure one or two years from now we will all know a lot more but for now

imo the whole world should focus on getting every one vaccinated asap,you snooze

you lose.

24 hours a day,seven days a week,get it done!

I just wonder is there enough available?

[Pib]

Below is a weblink/partial quote of article talking the difference between "efficacy" and "effectiveness"  which are two different animals.   Most of the stats we are seeing at this point in time are efficacy percentages from clinical studies;  effectiveness stats from large scale deployment/use seems to be a more important, real world stat of how good a vaccine is but it takes longer to collect effectiveness stats.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/pfizer-vaccine-for-coronavirus#efficacy

Quote

 

How effective is the Pfizer vaccine?

When considering the impact of the Pfizer vaccine, it is important to distinguish between its efficacy and its effectiveness.

“Efficacy” refers to the vaccine’s performance under ideal and controlled circumstances, such as in clinical trials. “Effectiveness” refers to its performance in real-world situations.

Efficacy

There is strong evidence from clinical trials that the Pfizer vaccine has a high level of efficacy.

A trial involving 43,548 participants, funded by BioNTech and Pfizer, reported that 2 doses of their vaccine confer 95% protection against COVID-19 in people aged 16 years and older.

Effectiveness

This result was consistent across age groups, sexes, races, ethnicities, and body weights, as well as those with underlying medical conditions and people who have already had a SARS-CoV-2 infection.

A large study on the Pfizer vaccine involving about 1.2 million people in Israel supports the findings of clinical trials. It indicates that two doses of the vaccine reduce symptomatic cases of COVID-19 by 94% across all age groups after 7 days of receiving the second dose. The vaccine also reduces severe illness by 92%.

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Pib

[johnnybangkok]

3 minutes ago, jvs said:

At this point i would accept any approved covid vaccine available,

I am sure one or two years from now we will all know a lot more but for now

imo the whole world should focus on getting every one vaccinated asap,you snooze

you lose.

24 hours a day,seven days a week,get it done!

I just wonder is there enough available?

The simple answer to that is no. As a BBC article today highlighted, poorer nations are going to struggle to get enough (or any) vacines with 'Wealthy countries - including the UK - blocking proposals to help developing nations increase their vaccine manufacturing capabilities' -  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-56465395

The Astra Zenica vacine has taken a lot of flak recently but as a previous poster mentioned, it's ability to be stored at much lower temperatures than the other vacines means it is much better suited to poorer nations who do not have the infrastructure to store the likes of Pfizer or Moderna. 

It is perhaps understandable that wealthy western countries are looking after their own first and hopefully over time everyone will have access to the vacines but in the meantime poorer countries will again find themselves at the back of the queue and will suffer because of this. 

[jvs]

11 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

 poorer countries will again find themselves at the back of the queue and will suffer because of this. 

I agree but i also think a lot of so called poorer nations do have the money but they have different priorities and imo that is wrong.

The number one should be to get every one vaccinated!!!

[johnnybangkok]

6 minutes ago, jvs said:

I agree but i also think a lot of so called poorer nations do have the money but they have different priorities and imo that is wrong.

The number one should be to get every one vaccinated!!!

It doesn't matter if you do/don't have the money if no one will sell you the stuff or give you the capabilty to make your own. 

[mommysboy]

One only has to look at the UK to realize that the AZ vaccine is extremely effective, as well as being cheap, and easier to deploy.

There are some safety concerns regarding CVST (thrombocytopenia), which is shared by many vaccines, and is also an issue with the mRNA vaccines.  Basically, a rare condition mainly affecting younger females becomes less rare, but not much is known about this condition.

AZ, JJ, and SputnikV have massive potential in poorer countries.  They are the workhorses.

[onthedarkside]

Several off-topic posts have been removed.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Below is a weblink/partial quote of article talking the difference between "efficacy" and "effectiveness"  which are two different animals.   Most of the stats we are seeing at this point in time are efficacy percentages from clinical studies;  effectiveness stats from large scale deployment/use seems to be a more important, real world stat of how good a vaccine is but it takes longer to collect effectiveness stats.

 

 

I agree... and unfortunately, I think a lot of the news coverage on the effectiveness/quality of the various vaccines has been vague and confusing... as those various terms get thrown out along with percentages, but oftentimes never explained as to what exactly they mean.

There seems to be two basic standards that come into play in such things:

1. did the person come down with the virus or detectable/moderate symptoms of illness.

or

2. did the person get sick enough to either require hospitalization or end up dying.

While, obviously, I'd like a vaccine to keep people absolutely as problem/illness free as possible, what's probably more important at this stage in the process is to keep people out of the hospitals (not have illness enough to require hospitalization) and keep them alive.

So the FIRST thing I'd be looking at in considering/comparing different vaccines in how good of a job did/do they do at keeping people out of the hospital and alive.  And the numbers for that often seem to be quite good (at least with the original strain of the virus).

Edited March 20, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Misab]

2 hours ago, donnacha said:

I swear to God, at this stage, I would happily inject ANY vaccine directly into my penis if that is what it took to get one.

 

I hope Moderna or Pfizer will be available in hospitals soon because I have COPD in severe degree and I believe one of those will be the best for me.

Another factor about AstraZeneca  is the way they vaccinate. In Denmark, a doctor raises the question of how the injection is given, and he mentions that not everyone knows how to vaccinate. He says it is important that the injection is given into the muscle and not in a vein. Therefore, people who inject should not squeeze the skin, as this can lead to a vein been injected, and it may cause blood clots if the vaccine goes directly into the bloodstream.

[lopburi3]

Some of us remember these injectors - and not being held tight - an severe cuts.  Lets not go back to them!

Edited March 20, 2021 by lopburi3

[GroveHillWanderer]

3 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

One  very important items re above is that cost of AstraZeneca was for limited time only.  This is scheduled to be about $30 when produced in Thailand in June and worldwide price will likely be in that area.

That's not quite accurate. Oxford University and AstraZeneca have committed to making the vaccine available at cost everywhere in the world while the pandemic lasts and in perpetuity to developing countries.

The current cost per dose is apparently between £3 and £7 in different parts of the world (depending mostly on transport costs) but I personally haven't come across anything saying that it will cost more to produce or distribute either in Thailand or anywhere else in the world.

Do you have a source for a $30 cost? I'd be interested to see it.

[mommysboy]

I just wonder if the dosing is now too strong in the AZ vaccine.  The best dosing regime was half dose followed by full dose. Also women, have less body weight (well some anyway), as well as more reactive immune systems.  Just speculating!

[cdemundo]

12 hours ago, Pib said:

the difference between "efficacy" and "effectiveness"  which are two different animals.   

It is also true that efficacy is not what it appears to be at first glance.

It is derived from the ratio of events (usually symptomatic infections) in the vaccinated group vs. the placebo group in the trials.

So a 75% efficacy does not mean you have a 25% chance of getting sick, it means that your risk (as predicted in the trial conditions) is reduced by 75%.

Knowing this, it can be seen that a 50% efficacy vaccine reduces your chance of symptomatic infection by half.

Annual flu vaccines are often in the 50% range, we are spoiled with the remarkable success in trials of several of these vaccines and have begun to think of 90% as an expected efficacy.

[mommysboy]

This second class "ALDI" vaccine just turned in unexpectedly high (79%) efficacy result in the US result, at its sub-optimal dosage!

[Pib]

 

https://us.cnn.com/2021/03/22/health/astrazeneca-vaccine-efficacy-us-based-clinical-trial/index.html

 

Quote

 

(CNN)AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine showed 79% efficacy against symptomatic disease and 100% efficacy against severe disease and hospitalization in a new, US-based clinical trial, the company said Monday.

 

The findings from the new Phase 3 trial, which included more than 32,000 participants, may boost confidence in the vaccine, which was originally developed by the University of Oxford.

 

 

[dabhand]

Also in this Guardian article with some emphasis that a review of CVST showed no increased risk.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/22/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-79-effective-with-no-increased-blood-clot-risk-us-trial

[Patong2021]

We may be surprised to discover that AZ vaccine will be as good or better than other vaccines over time.I hear interesting interview with chairman of university immunology department and he make point about vaccine I did not know;

-AZ vaccine starts with smaller immune response than  the mRNA vaccines. The response builds over time, encouraging human immune system to respond naturally and to develop its own immune response. This is is how the most effective old school vaccines have worked and real world experience for past 50 years shows it  works.

-mRNA vaccine  causes big reaction up front. The immune prep work over time is not as strong, so long term protection may not be as good as simple AZ  dose.

 

He also  give good explanation on efficacy: The numbers thrown around for pfizer and moderna may not be as good as given because they were tested when there were no variants. The testing on new variants is ongoing, so no one really has a number. What they do know is that because AZ vaccine has been in UK population for longer, that they have real life data points so of all the vaccines AZ has the most reliable data because of size of UK population and period of time used. Next up is Israel population. This  professor describe Israel population as good test pool because of diversity that include African, Arab, European and even a small amount of Asians. And once USA population is dosed by June, the world will have a big population to observe.  I do not mention EU because I will be surprised if they can stop blaming and start vaccinating.

 

[Janner1]

Announced today in America by the Federal Drug Administration that the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine is 79% effective against catching Covid and if you do get it, it is 100% effective against becoming seriously ill  and dying. 
 

In Europe last week, the European Medical Agency reluctantly agreed that they had been wrong all the time and that the O AZ vaccine did NOT cause blood clots and was extremely effective against catching Covid and becoming seriously ill.

Almost tantamount to admitting that they had been without foundation alarmist in there reporting output.

In other words ( but they did not have the honesty to admit it ) they had spread FAKE NEWS and undermined the health and well being of the population of the EU, scaring the smelly bit out of them and stopping them coming forward for A vaccine, consequently causing Europe to go into a 3rd lockdown because daily infections are through the roof and deaths mounting exponentially.

 

Thankfully Britain DUMPED the EU and we now have 30,000,000 vaccinated population and no deaths or blood clots from the vaccine, with new daily infections down to just above 5,000 and 31 deaths yesterday and continuing to fall further everyday.

In fact it has just been announced that Britain has recorded it lowest death rate in the last 24 hours since September of just 17.

[mommysboy]

Taken from the Guardian website, referring to the AZ vaccine drive in S.Korea which has been going for a good few weeks now and includes key health workers- most being female I guess. 

 

'Authorities reaffirmed on Monday that they have found no evidence of health risk despite reports of blood clots among those who received the AstraZeneca vaccine in Europe.'

 

I've no doubt something has been happening in Germany, Denmark, etc, but feel there are substantial other factors involved.

[lopburi3]

Quote

U.S. health officials say AstraZeneca may have skewed vaccine 'efficacy data' with 'outdated information'

https://theweek.com/speedreads/973471/health-officials-say-astrazeneca-may-have-skewed-vaccine-efficacy-data-outdated-information

 

Above being reported by major sources within last few hours.