EU rebuffs UK calls to ship AstraZeneca COVID vaccines from Europe

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

The figures are probably right. However, it doesn't mean It's stupid to do so. There are two main reason:

- vaccine centres capacity has been initially used exclusively for 75 and 75+ people, as well as high risk groups, with Pfizer jab,

- due to the mandatory 3 weeks delay between first and second jab, the policy is usually to store the second jab in advance (in particular as AZ is unreliable for deliveries).

 

Now I ask you: UK has around 26 million vaccinated people with only 4% having received their second dose. Which country will start to seriously store vaccines?

I don't speculate, thanks for the offer

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Seems another downside of brexit. UK will just have to use its own.

 

Not fair. We have a slogan now of "Global Britain".

This means the rest of the world has to do what we want. 

 

[bluedoc]

9 hours ago, candide said:

So the same posters -who explained to us that the UK plants are intended to supply UK ("UK first") and that the EU should be supplied by EU plants (at a time they were unable to deliver)- are now going to explain us that EU plants should not supply the EU, but must supply UK instead!????

 

(One reason being that, due to a US first policy, India was forced to follow an India first policy and did not supply UK with the promised jabs.)

Why send AZ vaccine to countries that don’t use it and also say it is not a good vaccine.

[cocoonclub]

52 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I didn't make any claim? I copied and pasted a headline and link directly, no paraphrase.

You responded that to a claim made by a user 

that (1) “[the EU has] millions of doses instorage unused” because (2) “of its “distrust” of it”.
 

Since you replied to that by posting an article that is debunking those claims, maybe I misunderstood you and you actually wanted to debunk those claims and say that the EU recommended using the vaccine whereas certain countries such as Germany et. al. are storing unused doses. 
 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by cocoonclub

[JBChiangRai]

The UK is more nimble and smarter than the EU, probably because everything is done in the EU by a committee of committees.

 

This core difference, according to a lawyer familiar with the development of the U.K. text, can be chalked up to the fact that the contract sealed with London was written by people with significant experience of purchasing agreements, specifically drug-buying deals. The European Commission’s contract, by contrast, shows a lack of commercial common sense, in the lawyer’s view.

The starkest example of this difference is a clause in the U.K. contract stating that if any party tries to force or persuade AstraZeneca or its subcontractors to do anything that could hold up the supply of the vaccine doses, the government may terminate the deal and invoke what appear to be punishment clauses — although these are largely redacted. 

The EU, on the other hand, can only withhold payments until the company delivers the goods, or until it helps find more producers to make the vaccine. And as POLITICO reported last week, the non-redacted version of the contract shows that the EU also waived its right to sue AstraZeneca in the event of delivery delays.

 

UK 1

EU Nil

[candide]

12 minutes ago, bluedoc said:

Why send AZ vaccine to countries that don’t use it and also say it is not a good vaccine.

There will be soon reliable trial information available. It will likely clear remaining doubts!

https://apnews.com/article/europe-coronavirus-pandemic-a73e711c7309be4444c65d5f9ae90c43

 

[candide]

Double posting

Edited March 22, 2021 by candide
Double posting

[cocoonclub]

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The EU, on the other hand, can only withhold payments

...or stop exports it seems. 

[Hi from France]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Like the EU already does?

 

The UK has donated $735 million to Covax to help the developing world have vaccines.

The EU has donated just $489 million.

I do not believe for one second the UK is helping more than we do, whether in money really sent or vaccine doses shared. 

 

Every info I get is the national - populist government slashing Official development assistance (ODA)

 https://www.concern.org.uk/news/overseas-aid-budget-cuts-explained

 

Please share a credible exhaustive source with us. i. e. not a tabloid nor a UK government or consultancy firm payed by said government. 

[Thingamabob]

5 hours ago, ericdiam said:

EU might holding some vaccines in the Netherlands, but its UK who started all by keeping most in UK for themselves and shipping little amounts to Europe. Thats the main reason why EU is so angry and now acting in same way.

The prove is there 1000%. If Uk would have also exported what they had to they would never been so far already in vaccinating their population!!

Thats it.  Nothing else!!!

Nonsense.

[vinny41]

14 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

I do not believe for one second the UK is helping more than we do, whether in money really sent or vaccine doses shared. 

 

Every info I get is the national - populist government slashing Official development assistance (ODA)

 https://www.concern.org.uk/news/overseas-aid-budget-cuts-explained

 

Please share a credible exhaustive source with us. i. e. not a tabloid nor a UK government or consultancy firm payed by said government. 

The UK has helped to raise $1 billion for the coronavirus COVAX Advance Market Commitment (AMC) through match-funding other donors, which combined with the £548 million of UK aid pledged will help distribute one billion doses of coronavirus vaccines to 92 developing countries this year.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-raises-1bn-so-vulnerable-countries-can-get-vaccine

 

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

Seems another downside of brexit. UK will just have to use its own.

Yeah, the fun thing is without Brexit, the UK would probably have done exactly the same.. 

 

But with the UK being a EU member, it would have been impossible for the EU to do anything against a member country, and certainly not stop our plants to serve the UK first

 

 

Within the single market, this private "UK first and the rest of the world can die" contract would have got us then.. 

 

Brexit sweet Brexit ????

[Hi from France]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-raises-1bn-so-vulnerable-countries-can-get-vaccine

 

Mmm again 

 

"Please share a credible exhaustive source with us. i. e. not a tabloid nor a UK government or consultancy firm payed by said government"

[vinny41]

Just now, Hi from France said:

Mmm again 

 

"Please share a credible exhaustive source with us. i. e. not a tabloid nor a UK government or consultancy firm payed by said government"

Sorry No you don't get to dicated which links are an acceptable credible source on this forum

Are you saying any links provided from the EU websites are no longer acceptable credible sources

You either accept the links or you don't its that simple

[vinny41]

Coronavirus: EU 'not ready' to share COVID vaccines with poorer countries

Despite earlier promises, EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has said the bloc cannot donate COVID-19 vaccines to developing countries while it struggles with its own supply. The UK slammed the move as "counterproductive."

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-eu-not-ready-to-share-covid-vaccines-with-poorer-countries/a-56944274

[Surelynot]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Coronavirus: EU 'not ready' to share COVID vaccines with poorer countries

Despite earlier promises, EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has said the bloc cannot donate COVID-19 vaccines to developing countries while it struggles with its own supply. The UK slammed the move as "counterproductive."

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-eu-not-ready-to-share-covid-vaccines-with-poorer-countries/a-56944274

Serious question....and I know you can say DYOR, but maybe you have the facts to hand.......I know we have donate half a billion to covax!!!!!...amazing ....but do we actually ship vaccines to other countries?

 

 

From your link..........there is no evidence to suggest that the UK has exported any COVID vaccines at all.........

Edited March 22, 2021 by Surelynot

[vinny41]

Just now, Surelynot said:

Serious question....and I know you can say DYOR, but maybe you have the facts to hand.......I know we have donate half a billion to covax!!!!!...amazing ....but do we actually ship vaccines to other countries?

Simply answer I don't know but I would suspect that the UK doesn't while there is another 26 million people in the UK that need to be vaccinated with the 1st dose and approx 50 million people in the UK that required to be vaccinated with the 2nd dose

Mr Johnson will also confirm on Friday that the UK will share the majority of any future surplus coronavirus vaccines from its supply with the COVAX vaccine-sharing programme to support developing countries.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pm-pledges-uks-surplus-vaccines-to-poorer-nations-as-he-calls-on-g7-to-set-100-day-target-for-new-jabs-12222233

[candide]

Triple posting, sorry 

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by candide

[cocoonclub]

1 hour ago, bluedoc said:

Why send AZ vaccine to countries that don’t use it and also say it is not a good vaccine.

Come on, it’s not that difficult. When you acquire or own something, you also acquire and own the right to chose yourself what you wanna do with it. 
 

Otherwise I could claim your car when you don’t drive it, or your right to vote when you don’t vote. 

[candide]

12 minutes ago, bluedoc said:

Why send AZ vaccine to countries that don’t use it and also say it is not a good vaccine.

There will be soon reliable trial information available. It will likely clear remaining doubts!

https://apnews.com/article/europe-coronavirus-pandemic-a73e711c7309be4444c65d5f9ae90c43

 

[Blue Muton]

8 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Like the EU already does?

 

The UK has donated $735 million to Covax to help the developing world have vaccines.

The EU has donated just $489 million

 

The UK is doing plenty to help the world.

 

In addition its surplus of vaccines that they do not need when they've finished the UK population will also be donated to the world.

The European Union’s executive commission on Friday pledged to double its contribution to the World Health Organization’s COVAX program, bringing the 27-nation bloc’s commitment to the initiative to deliver vaccines to poor nations to 1 billion euros ($1.2 billion).

European Commission President Ursula Von der Leyen praised a “true moment of global solidarity” in a statement as leaders of the Group of Seven economic powers gathered in a virtual meeting.

Von der Leyen also announced during the meeting an additional 100 million euros ($121.4 million) to support vaccination campaigns in Africa in partnership with the Africa Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

“The funding will be used to strengthen health systems, ensure the cold chains, buy equipment and train staff,” von der Leyen said. She added that the EU would discuss with drugmakers how they can ramp up their COVID-19 vaccine production capacity in Africa.

In addition to its COVAX contribution, the EU said it wants to share some of its doses with neighbors in Europe and Africa. Von der Leyen has regularly insisted that global solidarity is needed not only to help the world’s poorest countries but also to protect the EU, as “nobody is safe until everybody is safe.”

[Blue Muton]

36 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Coronavirus: EU 'not ready' to share COVID vaccines with poorer countries

Despite earlier promises, EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has said the bloc cannot donate COVID-19 vaccines to developing countries while it struggles with its own supply. The UK slammed the move as "counterproductive."

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-eu-not-ready-to-share-covid-vaccines-with-poorer-countries/a-56944274

 

From your own link:

 

The EU has accused the UK of imposing its own de facto export ban. The claim was vigorously denied by the UK, however, there is no evidence to suggest that the UK has exported any COVID vaccines at all, as it relies on complex legal arrangements with manufacturers.

Meanwhile, the EU has exported at least 8 million doses to the UK.

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

 

From your own link:

 

The EU has accused the UK of imposing its own de facto export ban. The claim was vigorously denied by the UK, however, there is no evidence to suggest that the UK has exported any COVID vaccines at all, as it relies on complex legal arrangements with manufacturers.

Meanwhile, the EU has exported at least 8 million doses to the UK.

Its not the EU that has exported at 8 million doses to the UK, the  majority of exports to the UK are from pfizer biontech, 

Pfizer has fullied all EU orders that have been placed and these exports are surplus to requirements.

There is a large price difference between the  pfizer biontech ( made for a profit) and the AZ (made at non profit)

I wouldn't think the UK will be exporting anywhere

while there is another 26 million people in the UK that need to be vaccinated with the 1st dose and approx 50 million people in the UK that required to be vaccinated with the 2nd dose

Edited March 22, 2021 by vinny41
additional info

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Sorry No you don't get to dicated which links are an acceptable credible source on this forum

Are you saying any links provided from the EU websites are no longer acceptable credible sources

You either accept the links or you don't its that simple

@vinny41 you are free to post whatever link you please (within forum policy I guess).

 

I'm just saying that for me, given the current situation, I do not consider UK government sources, or UK government signature to be 100% credible.

 

Of course I can read it and take it into account, but I think we do need to be very prudent "once bit twice shy" as they say. Or "take it with a grain of salt" ????

 

 

Now, there are still quality official UK sources with more independence from the national-populist government like the UK parliament

• the Committee on the Future Relationship with the European Union https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/366/committee-on-the-future-relationship-with-the-european-union/ 
• or the COVID-19 Committee https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/460/covid19-committee/

 

 

[Blue Muton]

42 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Its not the EU that has exported at 8 million doses to the UK, the  majority of exports to the UK are from pfizer biontech, 

Pfizer has fullied all EU orders that have been placed and these exports are surplus to requirements.

There is a large price difference between the  pfizer biontech ( made for a profit) and the AZ (made at non profit)

I wouldn't think the UK will be exporting anywhere

while there is another 26 million people in the UK that need to be vaccinated with the 1st dose and approx 50 million people in the UK that required to be vaccinated with the 2nd dose

Semantics - they don't alter the facts.

 

Vaccine doses produced in the UK and exported to EU member states - no evidence of any (and it would be a sure bet that Johnson and co. would be making a big deal of it if there were).

 

Vaccine doses produced in the EU and exported to the UK - 8 million.

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Blue Muton said:

Semantics - they don't alter the facts.

 

Vaccine doses produced in the UK and exported to EU member states - no evidence of any (and it would be a sure bet that Johnson and co. would be making a big deal of it if there were).

 

Vaccine doses produced in the EU and exported to the UK - 8 million.

No Facts in your post 

I will state it again for you

The EU doesn't have a contract with the UK to export vaccine

The EU hasn't shipped a single vaccine to the UK

and as I stated

I wouldn't think the UK will be exporting anywhere

while there is another 26 million people in the UK that need to be vaccinated with the 1st dose and approx 50 million people in the UK that required to be vaccinated with the 2nd dose

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Blue Muton said:

The European Union’s executive commission on Friday pledged to double its contribution to the World Health Organization’s COVAX program, bringing the 27-nation bloc’s commitment to the initiative to deliver vaccines to poor nations to 1 billion euros ($1.2 billion).

European Commission President Ursula Von der Leyen praised a “true moment of global solidarity” in a statement as leaders of the Group of Seven economic powers gathered in a virtual meeting.

Von der Leyen also announced during the meeting an additional 100 million euros ($121.4 million) to support vaccination campaigns in Africa in partnership with the Africa Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

“The funding will be used to strengthen health systems, ensure the cold chains, buy equipment and train staff,” von der Leyen said. She added that the EU would discuss with drugmakers how they can ramp up their COVID-19 vaccine production capacity in Africa.

In addition to its COVAX contribution, the EU said it wants to share some of its doses with neighbors in Europe and Africa. Von der Leyen has regularly insisted that global solidarity is needed not only to help the world’s poorest countries but also to protect the EU, as “nobody is safe until everybody is safe.”

Great news!

[Blue Muton]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

No Facts in your post 

 

Not true and surely you know it.

[Blue Muton]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Great news!

Well it's not exactly news, it was over a month ago but somebody was obviously not that up to date with their information.

[Hi from France]

2 hours ago, bluedoc said:

Why send AZ vaccine to countries that don’t use it and also say it is not a good vaccine.

 

 

Fair point !

 

1/ We do have plenty of citizens already vaccinated with their 1st jab, so we need the second jab.

 

 

2/ Considering most EU countries are using the AZ right now (except 3 northern Europe countries we it's still suspended), so we payed it, we need it 

 

In France the AZ is available directly from your GP or local Pharmacy and there is a lot of demand

 

Now while AZ production is riddled with problems, Deutsche Qualität pfizer *is* delivering  and production is scaling up very fast. Now the demand is huge (and remember, unlike the UK we have been delivering to the whole world).

 

until now, more than 300 exports operations have been approved, one was refused.

 

 

It is likely the EU will now stop exporting to countries than do not reciprocate, I mean the UK

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Hi from France