Health insurance age bracket increase 60-64 Ouch !!!

[Nemises]

7 hours ago, LosLobo said:

A lot of PDS' I have seen require the policy holder to reside in Australia and have a valid Medicare card.

After not living permanently in Australia for five years you are no longer entitled to a Medicare card under Centrelink's strict residency policy.

I would suggest that any claims you make under travel insurance could become problematic.

 

Not problematic at all, as my Aus travel insurance company allows me to take an overseas holiday for up 364 days a year, every year as long as I land at my home city in Aus before commencing my next 12 month holiday abroad.
 

Medicare card is kept, as are all other Government-issued cards such as Opal Card, driving licenses, vehicle registrations, E-toll tags etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Nemises

[Curt1591]

On 3/22/2021 at 7:31 PM, 4MyEgo said:

My policy is to increase from 70,000 baht per annum to 112,000 baht per annum, suffice to say that's about a 60% hike, so take it or leave would be my choice.

Assuming you are insured by a Thai company, Thai insurers won't accept new clients over 65 because of the odds. However, they will continue policies for those previously insured by them.

I'm sure this isn't a ploy to get you to drop coverage at an age where they might actually have to pay out. 

[bwpage3]

8 hours ago, rumak said:

 

your post makes many assertions and assumptions based on your personal opinions.

almost every sentence sounds like a fear mongering advertisement by the insurance monopolies .   

You obviously do not agree with those of us who make the choice to handle our own health requirements the way we see fit.    Again,  assumptions that many can not afford to take care of ourselves.... and possibly be living in one room flats and scraping by.  

It would be a welcome relief if forums would consist of intelligent people who post their opinions and could actually realize that there are many ways and lifestyles for each individual to choose from.  

These "debates"  get very boring with the "must insure or you are a fool"  group trying to warn others of the great dangers that can befall them.   Just insure yourself .  It is your choice !   Like living in the country..... or the city.   Riding a motorcycle or afraid of the consequences.    The list goes on and on.      

The OP here is about the always raising of premiums by insurers.  Many here are happy not to pay for it.    Others are happy to pay for it.    Simple

No one can see fit and predict an emergency, accident, health issue now can they?

 

Can you predict an accident? Cancer? Long term stay in the Hospital? Possibly even months as some COVID patients have had to do?

 

Of course not.

 

You make the assumptions one way, intelligent people plan for the worst that can happen.

 

The old "It won't ever happen to me" happens to everyone that gets old sooner or later.

 

No assumptions there.

 

Self Insured = No Insurance

 

Yes, it is a sad fact, that one hospital stay of any consequence can financially wipe you out.

 

Pretty sure all the super rich people, the ones with the money, never had to move to Thailand.

 

Sooner or later.

 

 

[izod10]

On 3/22/2021 at 7:44 PM, rumak said:

And thus some of us FOOLS  continue to self insure. 

 

you have good reason to rant.   I told them forty years ago what to do with their price increase.    Since then I have stayed with the most honest insurer i know,  with never a price increase.   

There have been posters paying 100 quid a week and the cover was not sufficent   Ive had 20 odd years self insure..the savings immense

 

India,two and a bit hours away,cheapest and the best health care..Most conditions are are elective and selective (accidents no)but once covid is done with or at least inoculation administered,its there to be had, a small fraction of Thailand's medical billing

[1FinickyOne]

On 3/22/2021 at 8:18 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

And obviously the insurance company takes the risk

I would not want to be on the other side of an insurance deal... I would not want to be the insurer... medical care can get expensive... or not... that said, I would not want to be the insured and be declined due to fine print when at my most vulnerable and least able to fight...

 

I self insure. 

[HAPPYNUFF]

When you insure yourself, your  assuming your going to need it at some future date,  The insurance Company is  hoping you wont.  I have yet to hear  of a poor Insurance  company.

[4MyEgo]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Having a marriage or retirement extension is not I think the issue.

 

Rather it is: do you still have a home in your "home" country and spend time there regularly, coming and going from it to Thailand? some people do and for them, travel insurance makes sense, assuming they are able to access free or affordable health care back in their home country.

 

But it will not work for people who live in Thailand full time with no place to go back to in their home country.

 

i can't emphasize enough that travel insurance medical cover is designed to cover only such health care abroad as is absolutely essential to stabilize you until you can travel back "home" and to cover emergency repatriation. It is not designed to be comprehensive health coverage and won't substitute for it. It is a good choice for people who divide their time between their home country and Thailand, and have somewhere they can readily return to there at any time.

 

Agree with your points Sheryl, travel insurance is just that, it is NOT for expats residing overseas and is limited in the cover it provides, it's temporary cover at best, a band aid to fix you up till you can get back to your home country, and will only send you back and pay the costs "if in the policy" if it is an extreme emergency.

 

Copy and pasted from a Google post that I read earlier on travel insurance.

 

In the simplest terms, travel insurance is for exactly that: Travel. If you’ve moved to another country (even “temporarily” because of your visa status), you are normally considered a "resident" of the country you now live in and people that don't read the disclosure statement or fail to advise the travel insurance company that they are moving overseas (disclosure), which forms part of the policy are rolling the dice with their policy as it becomes invalid/cancelled as soon as the travel insurance company finds out as they failed to disclose it 

 

If you’re moving, then you don’t fit into the model that the insurance company has for how to pay out claims, so they really don’t want you taking advantage.

 

In many cases, travel insurance companies will let you take out a policy for up to 12 months, but you want to be very upfront with them about why you’re moving and what your plans are.

 

While you might hold a policy, you might not have properly (or at all) read the disclosure statement that says something like:

 

It is a condition of the policy that:

• You are a resident of Australia, the United Kingdom, the USA etc etc

Suddenly you get injured but the travel insurance company won’t pay out. Disaster, why, because you failed to disclose that you are a resident of the country you live in, nothing to do with Citizenship.

[4MyEgo]

12 hours ago, Nemises said:

I’m officially still an Aus resident taking an 11 month (or thereabouts) “holiday” every year to Thailand. Been doing it for years even though I don’t physically live there (Aus). Never had a problem and as cheap as chips when compared to health insurance costs purchased in Thailand.  Only small print is that I must return to my “home” (my mates house) in Aus before taking off back to Thailand. (I “live” in Sydney so I must land in SYD not, say Darwin and head back to Thailand). 
 

I have a 12 month extension to stay in Thailand based on retirement. Have had it for years. 

 

Please read my post above.

 

The fact that you have a 12 month extension based on retirement to live in Thailand makes you a non resident of Australia, THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT.

 

Not having a go at you mate, you really need to be careful, because they will NOT cover you, believe me or not, it is up to you.

 

If you want to put your mind at ease, call them, you can be anonymous and tell them what you said in your above post, noting in particular that you are thinking of travelling to Thailand for 11 months of the year, but to be able to stay in Thailand for that period you need to have a retirement extension, they will then answer your question for you, and if they say anything different to what I have said, e.g. your policy will be invalid, then you will want to get that in writing.

 

You can thank me later when you get the proper health cover because at the moment, you have a travel insurance plan, but your not covered because you failed to disclose the obvious, you are a non resident of Australia, regardless if you return once a year, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but to think what could happen to you tomorrow thinking you have cover is like you are a walking time bomb and insurers will find this loophole as soon as they ask for your passport pages, the ones that are stamped retirement extension which in essence means your abode is Thailand, which under Australian Law makes you a non resident.

 

Open to you convincing me otherwise.

Edited March 24, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[Curt1591]

4 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Not having a go at you mate, you really need to be careful, because they will NOT cover you, believe me or not, it is up to you.

But, if they did, you could go home and hope to survive the queue ...

"All you've got is this moment." 

A bit of an ironic signature ...

Edited March 24, 2021 by Curt1591

[Nemises]

9 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

stamped retirement extension which in essence means your abode is Thailand, which under Australian Law makes you a non resident.

 

Hi mate. Appreciate your feedback. Can you provide a link where it says Australian residency is lost if you have extension/s to stay in another country for 11 months of each year to allow you to continually travel around that country?

[Henryford]

If that's the increased premium at 60-64 imagine what it will be at 70-74. Trouble by then you have invested millions of baht in your policy and can't pull out.

[suzannegoh]

That's still cheap insurance if it really covers everything.  Price out an unsubsidized Obamacare policy if you want to see expensive.

[Why Me]

Self-insure? Seriously? If self-insurance made the slightest economic sense insurance companies would cease to exist. If you can't afford insurance say it aloud, no shame in that. But to crow about giving insurers the finger and pocketing the change is silly. Because if they didn't have the last laugh often enough they wouldn't be around.

 

The way to look at is not to look back at each healthy year and think, damn, I threw all that money away. Think of it as socking away some amount each healthy year to survive the big hit that may (or may not) be lurking down the road.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Why Me

[UncleMhee]

59 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Please read my post above.

 

The fact that you have a 12 month extension based on retirement to live in Thailand makes you a non resident of Australia, THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT.

 

Not having a go at you mate, you really need to be careful, because they will NOT cover you, believe me or not, it is up to you.

 

If you want to put your mind at ease, call them, you can be anonymous and tell them what you said in your above post, noting in particular that you are thinking of travelling to Thailand for 11 months of the year, but to be able to stay in Thailand for that period you need to have a retirement extension, they will then answer your question for you, and if they say anything different to what I have said, e.g. your policy will be invalid, then you will want to get that in writing.

 

You can thank me later when you get the proper health cover because at the moment, you have a travel insurance plan, but your not covered because you failed to disclose the obvious, you are a non resident of Australia, regardless if you return once a year, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but to think what could happen to you tomorrow thinking you have cover is like you are a walking time bomb and insurers will find this loophole as soon as they ask for your passport pages, the ones that are stamped retirement extension which in essence means your abode is Thailand, which under Australian Law makes you a non resident.

 

Open to you convincing me otherwise.

Until the dreaded lurgy raised it's ugly head I returned to Oz every two years to renew my O-A visa. My travel insurance was yearly with an option to extend for one year outside of Australia. In those two years periods I had "permissions to stay", not a retirement extension in sight with side trips into neighbouring countries when ever I saw fit. Never a resident of anywhere other than Oz.

 

Of course it's all rather moot now, since my second extension is due within the month.

Edited March 24, 2021 by UncleMhee

[rumak]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

I would not want to be on the other side of an insurance deal... I would not want to be the insurer... medical care can get expensive... or not... that said, I would not want to be the insured and be declined due to fine print when at my most vulnerable and least able to fight...

 

I self insure. 

 

OMG !  are you another one of those old guys living in a 3000 baht a month room and eating fried rice from the market ?  

Ha ha ha    I know for a fact that you live a very good life in a beautiful home.  

It would pain me to have to withstand the ignorant ones who like to try to belittle us for

our decisions. . That is if I didn't know that many self insured are the wisest amongst us.

 

The only crazy thing is for me to give my side of the equation on a forum,  and have to deal with the usual "haters".      Like i have said before,   I am very healthy and enjoying the money i have not given to insurance monopolies.   

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by rumak

[suzannegoh]

I’ve noticed before that expats in Thailand get heated over other expats continuing to buy health insurance as premiums rise.  How dare they not self-insure?  But it really depends on the individual circumstances whther it makes sense.  If you have pre-existing conditions that occurred after you first took out your insurance policy and if it’s important to you to be able to see specialists of your choosing at hospitals of your choosing, then dropping the policy or changing providers might not be a realistic option. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by suzannegoh

[rumak]

Thank you for all who have been brave enough to show a little support for my efforts to defend an alternative to paying premiums on demand to companies that can deny you or present increases whenever they desire.

We all know what the prevailing thinking is on TV  on this subject.  To dare to disagree in posting is a risk.   So be it.   Have to put up with the "fool"  and "not insured"  insults.

Life is full of risk/ reward.   Many of the risk takers are well rewarded for their choices.  Not all are.   A lot has to do with the abilities of those involved,  somethings just come down to "luck".      

For me its time to go have some fun.    This thread has worn way too thin   ????

Edited March 24, 2021 by rumak

[elgenon]

I think you are supposed to feel blessed to able to stay in Thailand at whatever cost. If you are healthy, self insure to save money? If you are not healthy self insure because you can't get covered? You have to be in the middle?

[tinca tinca]

On 3/22/2021 at 7:44 PM, rumak said:

And thus some of us FOOLS  continue to self insure. 

 

you have good reason to rant.   I told them forty years ago what to do with their price increase.    Since then I have stayed with the most honest insurer i know,  with never a price increase.   

SO who do you use for health insurance ???

[thasoss]

increase in health insurance by age is i guess due to increase in the likelyhood of becoming sick.And let's face it all insurance companies work on the basis that they wont pay out if they can find a way not to.

I'm currently insured by a thai health company purely for the reason that I  need to be, to qualify for my long stay extension.The policy is not worth the paper it's written on but it is dirt cheap.

Not having a worthwhile health policy is a gamble,but to be worthwhile at my age the premiums would be over 100,000 baht a year.

[tinca tinca]

15 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I take that to mean baht ?

there is a DOLLAR sign in front of the 27 k.....so how can it BE BAHT ???????????

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

I would not want to be on the other side of an insurance deal... I would not want to be the insurer... medical care can get expensive... or not... that said, I would not want to be the insured and be declined due to fine print when at my most vulnerable and least able to fight...

 

I self insure. 

Obviously people should read the fine print before they sign up.

Personally I have good experience with my health and other insurances. If they don't pay then normally they have a reason - see fine print. But that is only my personal experience. 

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, Nemises said:

 

Hi mate. Appreciate your feedback. Can you provide a link where it says Australian residency is lost if you have extension/s to stay in another country for 11 months of each year to allow you to continually travel around that country?

 

Ok, I can't exactly do that, word for word, but have found something for you to read and consider, which might help, noting that nothing is set in concrete, but what it really boils down to is how one interprets the word "Abode", meaning your usual place of residency. I have put in a link from the ATO at the bottom of the page, but I did go through all of this before I left Australia, i.e. i spoke to THE ATO and a few travel insurers and all of them said to me, if you are living in another country for more than 183 days, your residency status changes to that of a non resident and the travel insurance cover would not be suitable for me, so I would therefore require health insurance.

 

Permanent place of abode

 

The following meanings have been established through case law:

• permanent does not have the meaning of everlasting or forever, but is used in the sense of being contrasted to temporary or transitory
• your place of abode is your residence, where you live with your family and sleep at night.

I also attached a travel insurance policy, on the first page read where it says "Who can buy this insurance"

 

As I said before, what you are doing is rolling the dice, insurers will take your money, but when it hits the fan will refer you to their fine print if they feel you have not fully disclosed your situation to them, e.g. living overseas for 11 months of the year, meaning your abode is not in Australia, one month in Australia doesn't cut it, and of course when they refuse to pay out, you can take them to court and any judge would see exactly what I see, that your usual place of residence is overseas and the policy says, you must be a resident of the country you took the policy out in, i.e. Australia, now if you win, it would have cost you time, and money to get what the travel insurer was "supposed" to pay you, so do the math, but to me, it's black and white and I couldn't see you winning because living overseas for 11 months of the year doesn't establish to me that you still retain your residency as an Australian resident.

 

Let me know your thoughts on the above when your done reading, always good to see differences of opinions for the better or worse. 

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/international-tax-for-individuals/in-detail/residency/residency---the-domicile-test/

 

 

Who can buy this insurance.pdf

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, UncleMhee said:

Until the dreaded lurgy raised it's ugly head I returned to Oz every two years to renew my O-A visa. My travel insurance was yearly with an option to extend for one year outside of Australia. In those two years periods I had "permissions to stay", not a retirement extension in sight with side trips into neighbouring countries when ever I saw fit. Never a resident of anywhere other than Oz.

 

Of course it's all rather moot now, since my second extension is due within the month.

 

Have a read of the above post.

[Curt1591]

I will admit that, because I was covered by company insurance for so many years, I did look into Thai healthcare coverage. 

Looking into it, I found Thai insurance to be packaged like Thai car sales - this is the package/car, this is the price. Then, they will exclude pre-existing conditions without and reduction in premiums. At least with cars they wheel and deal accessories ...

And, global coverage, from different insurers looked into, would bankrupt me, same as any catastrophic illness! The difference is that the insurance would guarantee it! 

Another deterrent to acquiring Thai medical insurance is that, if one has ever been treated for anything, and anything that could be potentially related to it, will be excluded. So, Thai insurance would basically be money for nothing. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Curt1591

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

Thank you for all who have been brave enough to show a little support for my efforts to defend an alternative to paying premiums on demand to companies that can deny you or present increases whenever they desire.

We all know what the prevailing thinking is on TV  on this subject.  To dare to disagree in posting is a risk.   So be it.   Have to put up with the "fool"  and "not insured"  insults.

Life is full of risk/ reward.   Many of the risk takers are well rewarded for their choices.  Not all are.   A lot has to do with the abilities of those involved,  somethings just come down to "luck".      

For me its time to go have some fun.    This thread has worn way too thin   ????

 

I can see your point, having started (you) to self insure many years ago, having built up a nest egg for that day, if it ever comes, however, the nest egg that I built up, I do not want to see get reduced because of an event that might reduce it by 2-3 million in one hit, so taking insurance against that is what some of us want, I do eat healthy, I do exercise, but what if, that motorcycle down the road swerved to avoid hitting a car and ended up taking me down, breaking lots of bones in my body, rupturing my spleen, and causing me some brain damage, Buddha forbid, it was an accident, the rider uninsured, and unlicensed, fled the scene, who picks up the multi million baht tab, hence the reason for taking out health insurance, yes to do with health, but accidents do happen, regardless if how healthy we are and for the outlay of say 70,000 to 110,000 baht, your coverage is for around 1 mil USD and that equates to around 31 million baht, I see value in that either way you look at it.

 

The risk in my opinion is on the insurer, no claim, good for them, good for you, healthy for another year, there is no lose, it's coverage, everything costs, it's just the increase that jolted me.

[4MyEgo]

49 minutes ago, tinca tinca said:

there is a DOLLAR sign in front of the 27 k.....so how can it BE BAHT ???????????

 

If you took the time and went back to read his reply where he confirmed it was BAHT, I would have to respond to your question.

 

Have a good day ????

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[spidermike007]

Better to self insure. Just sock away that 112,000 baht each year, in a secure place, or an account you never touch. It is likely you will rarely need it, and unless something devastating happens, you will end up with some extra savings, plus you can tell the insurance industry, one of the most corrupt in the world, to take a hike. That is a very satisfying thing to do. I had the same situation. They told me they lump all the individuals together, and your increase is based on the total claims of everyone. Sounds like nonsense to me. Told them to take a hike.

 

I ended up getting accident insurance, which covers me for 500,000 baht, for only 16,000 baht per year, and it includes 5 million in life insurance for my wife, which is a nice thing to have. 

[Nemises]

29 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Ok, I can't exactly do that, word for word, but have found something for you to read and consider, which might help, noting that nothing is set in concrete, but what it really boils down to is how one interprets the word "Abode", meaning your usual place of residency. I have put in a link from the ATO at the bottom of the page, but I did go through all of this before I left Australia, i.e. i spoke to THE ATO and a few travel insurers and all of them said to me, if you are living in another country for more than 183 days, your residency status changes to that of a non resident and the travel insurance cover would not be suitable for me, so I would therefore require health insurance.

 

Permanent place of abode

 

The following meanings have been established through case law:

• permanent does not have the meaning of everlasting or forever, but is used in the sense of being contrasted to temporary or transitory
• your place of abode is your residence, where you live with your family and sleep at night.

I also attached a travel insurance policy, on the first page read where it says "Who can buy this insurance"

 

As I said before, what you are doing is rolling the dice, insurers will take your money, but when it hits the fan will refer you to their fine print if they feel you have not fully disclosed your situation to them, e.g. living overseas for 11 months of the year, meaning your abode is not in Australia, one month in Australia doesn't cut it, and of course when they refuse to pay out, you can take them to court and any judge would see exactly what I see, that your usual place of residence is overseas and the policy says, you must be a resident of the country you took the policy out in, i.e. Australia, now if you win, it would have cost you time, and money to get what the travel insurer was "supposed" to pay you, so do the math, but to me, it's black and white and I couldn't see you winning because living overseas for 11 months of the year doesn't establish to me that you still retain your residency as an Australian resident.

 

Let me know your thoughts on the above when your done reading, always good to see differences of opinions for the better or worse. 

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/international-tax-for-individuals/in-detail/residency/residency---the-domicile-test/

 

 

Who can buy this insurance.pdf 269.6 kB · 0 downloads

Appreciate your time and efforts with this mate. I’ll have read through it later. First observations though...

 

•the tax office definitions I don’t think apply to me as I don’t work 
 

•I’m single with no family or relatives in Thailand. All family and relatives are in Sydney, my home city. 

 

•I have no fixed abode in Thailand. All I have is a late model car there, a suitcase full of “Lacoste” T shirts purchased from Thai markets ???? and enough cash to allow me to continually travel around all of Thailand 11 months of every year, dining out every meal and staying with different female friends and hotels along the way, for up to a week at a time. (God Bless Thailand’s beautiful beaches, warm weather .....and of course ThaiFriendly  ????)

 

•the registered address for my Thai car is at an ex girlfriend’s house who is ok with that.  Her address is also my “home base” for IO purposes. 

 

•the longest I stay anywhere is in Sydney at my friend’s house, my only fixed abode. Rent is paid and receipts issued for the 1 or 2 months of each year when I return home to see my mates and loved ones, take my car, motorcycle and boat for a spin and renew all of my Aus vehicle/boat registrations, licences, library memberships, sporting club memberships and credit cards - should they be due. 

 

I tell all of the above to my Aus travel insurance company every year prior to my annual Thai holiday, and of course they say I’m covered and take my money, but I’m listening to what you’re saying.

Again, thanks for your feedback. Appreciate it. 

[NoshowJones]

On 3/22/2021 at 7:44 PM, rumak said:

And thus some of us FOOLS  continue to self insure. 

 

you have good reason to rant.   I told them forty years ago what to do with their price increase.    Since then I have stayed with the most honest insurer i know,  with never a price increase.   

You mean an honest insurer actually exists??