EU blames AstraZeneca as vaccine battle with UK deepens

[vinny41]

AstraZeneca said no exports were currently planned outside of the EU other than to developing countries via the Covax facility, and it was incorrect to describe the batches in the factory – run by the US-based company Catalent to provide vial filling and packaging – as a “stockpile”.

“There are 13m doses of vaccine waiting for quality control release to be dispatched to Covax as part of our commitment to supply millions of doses to low-income countries, the vaccine was made outside the EU and brought to the Anagni plant to be filled into vials,” the company said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/astrazeneca-dismisses-claim-29m-vaccine-doses-in-italy-were-bound-for-uk

 

So we see from this report and it must be correct  because its The Guardian that vaccine that isn't ready for use is shipped from outside the EU ( Vaccine was produced non EU country) sent to italy for further processing and then bottled into vials ready for shipment and use.

[polpott]

3 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

seriously you think that India not delivering the millions of doses promised to the UK is a good news for the continuation of the UK vaccination campaign? You need a source for that? Really?

The vaccines produced in India are primarily allocated for Asian countries. Bad news for Thailand, not the UK.

[Hi from France]

39 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

The virus situation in the UK when the arguments between the EU/UK/AZ began was completely out of control - per capita we had one of the highest infection/death rates in the world. Urgent action was needed.

I think the UK took a damn gamble.. but right now I'm pretty admirative of that gamble: the population is pro-vaccine, the NHS did extraordinary well and as of now the results are extraordinary

 

 

39 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I agree that we all need to think about other parts of the world and I think you will find that when the UK gets the majority of its population vaccinated, it will be one of if not THE most generous countries in the world.  We have that sort of spirit - as we showed in 1939 when we took on the battle to free Europe.

Well I'm waiting for this: right now what I see is the UK keeping its vaccine, taking vaccines produced in the EU and giving nothing

 

 

39 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I would remind you that as far as I know, the only people to block vaccine exports at the moment is the EU (Italy-Australia).

ah? and not the USA, not India?

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

seriously you think that India not delivering the millions of doses promised to the UK is a good news for the continuation of the UK vaccination campaign? You need a source for that? Really?

I was just under the assumption that making such a bold claim and I quote Bad news for the second jab campaign in the UK

 

That you would have some knowledge about this such as:

1. Which vaccine would the UK not have enough of to give the second shot. Astrazeneca, Pfizer or Moderna

2. Whats the amount of vaccines that would be banned from delivery and which ones?

2. How much stock, storage of these vaccines does the UK have?

3. How much guaranteed delivery of theses vaccines does the UK have? (by that I mean deliveries not affected by any potential export ban)

4. After receiving your first shot, an appointment is made for the second shot between 3 to 12 weeks later. Why would any government arrange a second appointment without a guaranteed supply?

5. If the ban goes ahead do you think they will still be delivering the first shots without having the second shot to hand?

6. Or do you think it would be better to delay the first shot to some people until the supply issue is resolved?
7. Do you think the UK government would just wing it and hope they have the second shots?

 

Factually I suspect you know none of the above and as such your claim is nothing but bluster, however you may have been in touch with Matt Hancock and prove me wrong?

 

Questions questions, that are all relevant to making such an assumption...............

[Hi from France]

47 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

PARIS (Reuters) - European leaders failed to see that COVID-19 vaccines would be developed as soon as they were and this was why rollouts in the EU now lagged behind some other countries, French President Emmanuel Macron said in an interview broadcast on Wednesday.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccines-macron-idUKKBN2BG33P

indeed, what the EU did was good, but what the UK and the US did was much better!

 

 

The EU had zero preparation for this, the common ordering of vaccine was an improvisation. Still it was much better than the mess with PPE in which each country was outbidding the neighbor. We avoided that total mess (instead we still have a mess, but smaller ???? )

 

 

we need to create a European vaccine agency like BARDA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomedical_Advanced_Research_and_Development_Authority

 

and we will do it

Quote

On 16 September 2020, the President of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, urged the need of a biomedical advanced research and development agency (BARDA) in the context of building a stronger European Health Union. The new agency would support the EU's capacity and readiness to respond to cross-border threats and emergencies – whether of natural or deliberate origin. According to von der Leyen, the Union needs strategic stockpiling in order to address supply chain dependencies, notably for pharmaceutical products. In the letter of intent, which accompanied President von der Leyen's State of the Union speech, the Commission announced to publish a legislative proposal in order to establish the new European Biomedical Research and Development Agency.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/legislative-train/theme-promoting-our-european-way-of-life/file-european-biomedical-research-and-development-agency

 

 

We could have done it before, but as you know

 

...once there was a country opposing such European initiatives, but it has no power to do this anymore.

 

.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Hi from France

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

indeed, what the EU did was good, but what the UK and the US did was much better!

 

 

The EU had zero preparation for this, the common ordering of vaccine was an improvisation. Still it was much better than the mess with PPE in which each country was outbidding the neighbor. We avoided that total mess (instead we still have a mess, but smaller ???? )

 

Contradictions in your own post show how illogical your responses are.

[vinny41]

17 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

I think the UK took a damn gamble.. but right now I'm pretty admirative of that gamble: the population is pro-vaccine, the NHS did extraordinary well and as of now the results are extraordinary

 

 

Well I'm waiting for this: right now what I see is the UK keeping its vaccine, taking vaccines produced in the EU and giving nothing

 

 

ah? and not the USA, not India?

Maybe you missed this post

AstraZeneca said no exports were currently planned outside of the EU other than to developing countries via the Covax facility, and it was incorrect to describe the batches in the factory – run by the US-based company Catalent to provide vial filling and packaging – as a “stockpile”.

“There are 13m doses of vaccine waiting for quality control release to be dispatched to Covax as part of our commitment to supply millions of doses to low-income countries, the vaccine was made outside the EU and brought to the Anagni plant to be filled into vials,” the company said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/astrazeneca-dismisses-claim-29m-vaccine-doses-in-italy-were-bound-for-uk

 

So we see from this report and it must be correct  because its The Guardian that vaccine that isn't ready for use is shipped from outside the EU ( Vaccine was produced non EU country) sent to italy for further processing and then bottled into vials ready for shipment and use.

So there we have it unfinished vaccine (produced in a non EU country) is being shipped to the the EU for final processing and is being bottled into the vials before being shipped out again so not EU vaccine as being produced in the EU

[Hi from France]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I was just under the assumption that making such a bold claim and I quote Bad news for the second jab campaign in the UK

 

That you would have some knowledge about this such as:

1. Which vaccine would the UK not have enough of to give the second shot. Astrazeneca, Pfizer or Moderna

2. Whats the amount of vaccines that would be banned from delivery and which ones?

2. How much stock, storage of these vaccines does the UK have?

3. How much guaranteed delivery of theses vaccines does the UK have? (by that I mean deliveries not affected by any potential export ban)

4. After receiving your first shot, an appointment is made for the second shot between 3 to 12 weeks later. Why would any government arrange a second appointment without a guaranteed supply?

5. If the ban goes ahead do you think they will still be delivering the first shots without having the second shot to hand?

6. Or do you think it would be better to delay the first shot to some people until the supply issue is resolved?
7. Do you think the UK government would just wing it and hope they have the second shots?

 

Factually I suspect you know none of the above and as such your claim is nothing but bluster, however you may have been in touch with Matt Hancock and prove me wrong?

 

Questions questions, that are all relevant to making such an assumption...............

hey I just said not having deliveries is a bad news for the UK vaccination campaign (and also for the rest of the world).

 

this (reasonable) claim is backed by sources like 

Quote

The UK has received only half of the 10m doses it ordered from the SII, leading to warnings that its vaccination programme may have to slow. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/delhi-reportedly-halts-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-exports-as-cases-soar

 

 

now I think we might try to tackle you seven questions as well, but I am unable to answer all that!

 

you are welcome to share your own research with us, this is what we are supposed to do here

[Hi from France]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Maybe you missed this post

AstraZeneca said no exports were currently planned outside of the EU other than to developing countries via the Covax facility, and it was incorrect to describe the batches in the factory – run by the US-based company Catalent to provide vial filling and packaging – as a “stockpile”.

“There are 13m doses of vaccine waiting for quality control release to be dispatched to Covax as part of our commitment to supply millions of doses to low-income countries, the vaccine was made outside the EU and brought to the Anagni plant to be filled into vials,” the company said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/astrazeneca-dismisses-claim-29m-vaccine-doses-in-italy-were-bound-for-uk

 

So we see from this report and it must be correct  because its The Guardian that vaccine that isn't ready for use is shipped from outside the EU ( Vaccine was produced non EU country) sent to italy for further processing and then bottled into vials ready for shipment and use.

So there we have it unfinished vaccine (produced in a non EU country) is being shipped to the the EU for final processing and is being bottled into the vials before being shipped out again so not EU vaccine as being produced in the EU

your source talks about a plant it Italy, how does it relates to the UK exporting vaccine doses?

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

We do - and I would point out that you would be wearing Jack Boots and shouting 'Zieg Heil' now if it wasn't for us. Quite how someone from France can call us selfish is beyond me. Do you know how many of our young men died to liberate your country? It may be over 80 years ago but some of those young men might still have been alive today.

I really really miss Britain as it was back then

 

even the 90's Britain when I lived there was wonderful

 

I'm so sorry it turned into a national-populist country now.

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Hi from France said:

your source talks about a plant it Italy, how does it relates to the UK exporting vaccine doses?

my source The Guardian or is that now on you hitlist

I suggest you read this article from the CEO of AstraZeneca, has he explains different production sites have different objectives

Some plants are used for producing the vaccine they called it drug substance and other plants are used for drug product

or also known as the final product bottles labeling quality control etc etc some of these plants are in different countries

https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/

[cocoonclub]

28 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

The EU had zero preparation for this

Because the rollout was never in scope of the EU. Maybe it should’ve been, then the results would’ve been better than what some countries are doing now. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

hey I just said not having deliveries is a bad news for the UK vaccination campaign (and also for the rest of the world).

 

this (reasonable) claim is backed by sources like 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/delhi-reportedly-halts-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-exports-as-cases-soar

 

 

now I think we might try to tackle you seven questions as well, but I am unable to answer all that!

 

you are welcome to share your own research with us, this is what we are supposed to do here

You specifically said: Bad news for the second jab campaign in the UK

 

That is what I was addressing as you well know, now you can carry on deflecting or tell me where you have evidence for this?

[polpott]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

I'm so sorry it turned into a national-populist country now.

And France hasn't? The Le Pen's are hugely popular in France. Didn't Marine come 2nd in the last presidential elections? Far more "national-populist" than any mainstream British political party.

[Hi from France]

23 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You specifically said: Bad news for the second jab campaign in the UK

 

That is what I was addressing as you well know, now you can carry on deflecting or tell me where you have evidence for this?

yeah I said not having the 5 millions doses of vaccine the UK ordered from the SII is Bad news for the second jab campaign in the UK and this is still what the situation seems to be.

 

Conversely, you are welcome to prove that not getting these 5 millions doses is a good news for the second jab campaign in the UK.

 

 

 

AFAIK, the UK injected a maximum of citizens with a first dose without setting aside the second jab

Edited March 25, 2021 by Hi from France

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Hi from France said:

yeah I said not having the 5 millions doses of vaccine the UK ordered the the SII is Bad news for the second jab campaign in the UK and this is still what I say.

 

Conversely, you are welcome to prove that not getting these 5 millions doses is a good news for the second jab campaign in the UK.

 

AFAIK, the UK injected a maximum of citizens with a first dose without setting aside the second jab

I'm not making the claim, I've no need prove anything other than ask you where your evidence for this is other than wild assumptions

[Hi from France]

19 minutes ago, polpott said:

And France hasn't? The Le Pen's are hugely popular in France. Didn't Marine come 2nd in the last presidential elections? Far more "national-populist" than any mainstream British political party.

 

we are off-topic, but quickly, if you do not get the basics

 

Macron is a centrist leaning on the right, he is the president right now. MLP does not have any power, but she might very well win the presidential election next year.

 

In the case, there would be national-populist governments in both the Uk and France. With a series of results: typically we would not stop immigrants from leaving France and going to the UK anymore, and would be more aggressive on a series of fields. But it's off-topic.

[Hi from France]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I'm not making the claim, I've no need prove anything other than ask you where your evidence for this is other than wild assumptions

well you read my post just above, properly sourced

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

well you read my post just above, properly sourced

I read the post sourced to a link that does not contain the relevant information yes. 

[polpott]

13 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

we are off-topic, but quickly, if you do not get the basics

 

Macron is a centrist leaning on the right, he is the president right now. MLP does not have any power, but she might very well win the presidential election next year.

 

In the case, there would be national-populist governments in both the Uk and France. With a series of results: typically we would not stop immigrants from leaving France and going to the UK anymore, and would be more aggressive on a series of fields. But it's off-topic.

LePen's party formerly known as the National Front. Way more right wing than the British Conservative party. The French are doing nothing to prevent immigrants crossing the Channel now, in fact they're encouraging them so no change there.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by polpott

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

But the UK is no longer in the EU and it is likely that the UK will never join again.

 

As for the tanks not being exported to Iran 45 years ago, it's completely irrelevant to the discussion on the AZ vaccine.

Exactly Bill, being out of the EU means the UK has no say whatsoever on EU export control.

The Iran situation is a classic example of how export control is not dependent on what any particular country thinks or wants.

Isn't this thread all about export control?

[Hi from France]

56 minutes ago, polpott said:

The French are doing nothing to prevent immigrants crossing the Channel now, in fact they're encouraging them so no change there.

completely, but also off-topic. Now it if you really can prove the french are "doing nothing" be our guest

[sandyf]

9 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I can't speak for others but my views are nothing to do with anti EU sentiment, I was a remainer. If the UK was behaving the same way as the EU have been, my views would be against the UK.  Wrong is wrong and I for one, have no loyalty to wrong doing.

You obviously missed what I said in another post, but at the end of the day export control is their decision and the UK no longer has a say in the matter.

 

"I never said I agreed with the EU breaking agreement, but then I don't agree with Bojo breaking the agreements on NI and foreign aid."

[sandyf]

8 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

If Germany's Pfizer had a major manufacturing plant in the UK and the UK government imposed export restrictions on Pfizer vaccines to the EU, I think that would be roundly criticised. Especially if the EU had a contract in place to receive those vaccines ahead of the UK. 

This is effectively what the EU are doing with AZ, right?  

You are effectively saying that countries shouldn't have the right to impose export control, right?

What other sovereign rights should be taken away?

[Hi from France]

15 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are effectively saying that countries shouldn't have the right to impose export control, right?

What other sovereign rights should be taken away?

Well about the importance of sovereign rights in  UK success, we do have an assessment of the real reason.. 

 

When asked about the reason for the UK's vaccine success Boris Johnson answered "greed and capitalism"

 

'Greed' and 'capitalism' helped UK's vaccines success, says PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56504546

[billd766]

11 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Didn't you have The Jungle Book in France?

From this post. 16 hours ago, Hi from France said:

 

What are you and your son are doing in Central Thailand with a bear? The bear is a necessity of life?

 

Well what my son and I are doing in Central Thailand is actually none of your business at all, and is completely off topic.

 

But to keep you on the straight and narrow my avatar is from the Disney animated cartoon called "The Jungle Book" from 1967. This in turn was written by Rudyard Kipling in 1894.

 

I use it as an avatar and the bear necessities of life was sung by Baloo the bear voiced by Phil Harris.

[JustAnotherHun]

Well done, Boris ????

Germany delivers 100k shots per day at the moment. Wow! That keeps us far in front of countries like Burkina Faso. Impressive.

[polpott]

2 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Well about the importance of sovereign rights in  UK success, we do have an assessment of the real reason.. 

 

When asked about the reason for the UK's vaccine success Boris Johnson answered "greed and capitalism"

 

'Greed' and 'capitalism' helped UK's vaccines success, says PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56504546

If you read, you'll see that it was an obvious joke. Your French sense of humour (or lack of it) just didn't get it, or didn't want to. Even if he were serious he couldn't be talking about Astra Zenica who supply the vaccine at cost.

[Surelynot]

4 minutes ago, polpott said:

If you read, you'll see that it was an obvious joke. Your French sense of humour (or lack of it) just didn't get it, or didn't want to. Even if he were serious he couldn't be talking about Astra Zenica who supply the vaccine at cost.

Mmmm...not too sure it was a joke.......unless he has been making the same joke for a number of years......his previous speeches contain the same or similar argument....... the benefits of greed and inequality being essential elements of capitalism.......a casual acceptance of such is easy when born into a life of privilege.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Exactly Bill, being out of the EU means the UK has no say whatsoever on EU export control.

The Iran situation is a classic example of how export control is not dependent on what any particular country thinks or wants.

Isn't this thread all about export control?

TBH Sandy I have no idea what this thread is about any more. It has had more diversions than the M1 just before Easter.