Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[NewlyMintedThai]

Any time, any day. Only PR has an application period.


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[sanchobkk]

Thanks again.

If i may keep up with some little annoying questions, i would ask :

 

- I built a house in my wife province (south), i would go on register this yellow book there, as I'm planning to go living here someday anyway. My mother in law is the head of thabien ban. But i guess the citizen application must be from conduct from this province right ? not in Pathumthani which I currently live in ?

- IIs it possible to get a yellow book from a rented place (the one that i live currently) and then go through the citizen application on a more convenient way , even if i would likely be living elsewhere afterwards, as the application is lasting for years ?

 

Thanks

Edited November 30, 2017 by sanchobkk

[MrPatrickThai]

I have a question about becoming a Thai citizen and tax.

 

At the moment, I have a fairly large income from abroad which I pay no tax on here. If I become a Thai citizen, could they make me pay tax on it?

 

 

[samran]

34 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I have a question about becoming a Thai citizen and tax.

 

At the moment, I have a fairly large income from abroad which I pay no tax on here. If I become a Thai citizen, could they make me pay tax on it?

 

 

You should be paying tax on it if it is transferred into Thailand in the same year it is earned by you (regardless of nationality).

 

If it is transferred into Thailand the following year, it is tax free. For instance, earn 1million dollars on December 31 and transfer it into Thailand the same day, it is taxable. Transfer it in 1 Jan, it is tax free.

 

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/552.0.html

 

 

[MrPatrickThai]

Thanks Samran!

 

When I get a pension, in quite a few years, is this also taxable?

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by MrPatrickThai

[GabbaGabbaHey]

35 minutes ago, samran said:

You should be paying tax on it if it is transferred into Thailand in the same year it is earned by you (regardless of nationality).

 

If it is transferred into Thailand the following year, it is tax free. For instance, earn 1million dollars on December 31 and transfer it into Thailand the same day, it is taxable. Transfer it in 1 Jan, it is tax free.

 

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/552.0.html

 

 

This is true in the general case only, which means if your country has no tax agreement with Thailand. If it has an agreement, you should study it. For instance the one that would apply to me says differently and any income from my original country would be added to my taxable income in Thailand on the same tax year.

Edited November 30, 2017 by GabbaGabbaHey

[samran]

8 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Thanks Samran!

 

When I get a pension, in quite a few years, is this also taxable?

 

Not an expert on tax but I think the TV consensus is they aren’t taxable.

 

Gabbas advice is sound. I do taxes in three jurisdictions. A massive pain so good advice is necessary. 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

4 hours ago, samran said:

Not an expert on tax but I think the TV consensus is they aren’t taxable.

 

Gabbas advice is sound. I do taxes in three jurisdictions. A massive pain so good advice is necessary. 

Maybe I replied quickly as my answer was in the context of not yet being naturalized yet and in this case the tax agreement between the two countries still make sense. As a matter of fact, once you get Thai citizenship you're technically not supposed to have any other nationality so the tax agreement should no longer apply. Which means, I guess, you're taxed as a Thai national getting foreign income. On this point, I'm not sure how naturalized citizens who retain their former nationality will handle the tax declaration to the Revenue department for their foreign income, as some of the submitted documents must obviously contain elements that indicate they retain the former nationality.

[GarryP]

10 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Maybe I replied quickly as my answer was in the context of not yet being naturalized yet and in this case the tax agreement between the two countries still make sense. As a matter of fact, once you get Thai citizenship you're technically not supposed to have any other nationality so the tax agreement should no longer apply. Which means, I guess, you're taxed as a Thai national getting foreign income. On this point, I'm not sure how naturalized citizens who retain their former nationality will handle the tax declaration to the Revenue department for their foreign income, as some of the submitted documents must obviously contain elements that indicate they retain the former nationality.

Interesting problem. Luckily, not something I will have to think about.  

[Big Guns]

You only need to worry about singing if you are applying as a single person. In my case the NIA interview was a chat about our situation. As I speak very little Thai my wife did much of the talking.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

5 hours ago, Big Guns said:

You only need to worry about singing if you are applying as a single person. In my case the NIA interview was a chat about our situation. As I speak very little Thai my wife did much of the talking.

Not quite exact. Any applicant applying to naturalization on the basis of PR (either man, woman, single or married to Thai national or other nationality) will need to sing at MOI. Beside this, anyone who needs extra points to reach the 50 points to qualify can opt to sing at SB.

Edited December 2, 2017 by GabbaGabbaHey

[Neeranam]

19 hours ago, VIBE said:

Hi,

I applied a few weeks ago, and today got a call that I need to be in BKK on the 5th for a meeting.  They are requesting lots of documents, all originals.  Does anyone have any info on what this meeting will entail?  Is this me being interviewed?  Do I need to sing at this meeting?  I'm kinda freaking out.

 

Any info is helpful.....

 

Thanks

Handing in documents, then they'll check them all. If in order, they'll make an appointment for the official submitting of application.

[skippybangkok]

Not quite exact. Any applicant applying to naturalization on the basis of PR (either man, woman, single or married to Thai national or other nationality) will need to sing at MOI. Beside this, anyone who needs extra points to reach the 50 points to qualify can opt to sing at SB.

Not quite exactly - i had a PR and married to Thai and was not required to sing


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[NewlyMintedThai]

But did you apply on the basis of PR or marriage?


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[skippybangkok]

But did you apply on the basis of PR or marriage?


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Marriage


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[NewlyMintedThai]

Correct: therefore no singing required.


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[NewlyMintedThai]

Ok, so my understanding is they will check all my original documents, and chat to me in Thai.  Is this the first of many interviews? This cant be the only one? I will still need to sing the Anthums, correct?
 
for everyone's info, I only submitted the official application about two weeks ago here in Chang Mai. So I'm surprised they called me so soon for an interview.

This is only the very first interview. The main one will be the MOI interview, in front of a formal panel. At that one you will need to sing if NOT applying on the basis of marriage. You can expect any number of less formal interviews, starting with NIA, SB and ending with your district chief just before the issuing of your ID card.


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[Scott]

Off-topic posts reported and removed.  

[MrPatrickThai]

I had to sing the National Anthem and royal song to the chief of Special Branch.

[yankee99]

1 minute ago, VIBE said:

Hmm, Did you apply based on Marriage? I thought the requirment to sing was at the MOI? Or is this another case of some people making up rules as they see fit?

some people may have to sing based on lack of points too

[KevT]

I am having difficulty searching for this in the thread due to the search function not allowing words of only 2 characters (like PR).

 

Could someone please confirm/disconfirm these?

 

- Regarding PR and citizenship, PR is not 100% a requirement before applying for citizenship, although you will get zero points if you don't have it?

- If you were to aim for PR before citizenship, you would need to have had your PR a total of 5 years before applying for citizenship?

- Having PR for 3 or 4 years will not make any difference at all or result in more points when applying for citizenship?

- Although not as good as PR, if you have had a tabien baan for five years (with no PR), before applying for citizenship, that would result in some points?

[KevT]

Regarding PR not being an absolute requirement, I read this from a post by @Arkady from Oct. 2017 (see bolded parts).

 

On 10/16/2017 at 7:37 AM, Arkady said:

 

This sounds very frustrating and you have my sympathy but remember that nearly everyone gets at least one totally unexpected curved ball during the process.  I got two from SB and another one that came very close to derailing my application two and a half years later from the MOI.  I think the important thing you have missed is in estimating your points for domicile in Thailand at 15, whereas you are only eligible for a maximum of 5 points without permanent residence, if you have had a tabien baan for over 5 years.

 

Only 3 of the 7 categories for points allocation are entirely objective: age, income and education.  Knowledge of Thai language and personality are totally subjective and up to the discretion of SB.  Knowledge of Thailand depends on how good your knowledge and your understanding of the questions really is plus, in most cases, how much the SB officer either helps you and/or lets you cheat by having your wife translate the questions for you, wink at you, nudge you or kick you under the table.  Domicile should be entirely objective and in many cases this is the case but in some cases it can depend on SB's discretion in how they calculate domicile which seems to vary over time.   That means that SB has a lot of input in determining your points total.  I would take a step back and not try to argue with them.  My guess is that, if you go along with what they say and go to see them with a positive attitude, you will be able to get over 50 points without problem.  Agree to learn the songs and do the best you can.  Actually they are only worth 2 points, so there is something wrong with their arithmetic but don't bother to point that out to them.  If you don't have time to learn them off by heart, tell them you haven't had time, as this was unexpected, and ask if you can use a script.  They let me use a script and gave me full points for the songs, albeit warning that I would need to have them off by heart by the time of the MOI interview. 

 

Re domicile,  Unless you have permanent residence the maximum points you can get for this is 5 for living in the Kingdom for at least 5 years with a tabien baan.  If you have not had a tabien baan for at leas 5 years you are not entitled to any points.  The reason I say this is partly discretionary is that SB has been known to interpret the rules as not considering a yellow tabien baan as qualifying even for the 5 points which would mean no points at all for anyone without PR, even though this is clearly wrong.  Also some people got through in the past with less than 5 years' PR (and no Thai spouse), since SB counted their time on NON-B visas towards the 5 years,  which was also clearly wrong in the other direction.

 

Re Thai language.  You can only get the full 15 points if you do the reading and writing tests as well as sing the two songs.  

 

Re: Certification of educational certificates by the embassy. This seems to be a new requirement which cannot be avoided but, as far as know they have not yet asked for certificates to be certified by the issuing institution. So there should be no need to get anything from the UK.

 

Best of luck.

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by KevT

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, KevT said:

Regarding PR and citizenship, PR is not 100% a requirement before applying for citizenship, although you will get zero points if you don't have it?

These sections of the nationality act should make it clearer for you.

Quote

Section 10. An alien who possesses the following qualifications may apply for
naturalization as a Thai:
(1) becoming sui juris in accordance with Thai law and the law under which he
has nationality;
(2) having good behavior;
(3) having regular occupation;
(4) having a domicile in the Thai Kingdom for a consecutive period of not less than five
years till the day of filing the application for naturalization;
(5) having knowledge of Thai language as prescribed in the Regulations.
Section 11. The provisions of Section 10 (4) and (5) shall not apply if the applicant for
naturalization as a Thai;
(1) has rendered distinguished service to Thailand or has done acts to the benefit of
official service, which is deemed suitable by the Minister;
(2) is a child, wife, or husband of a person who has been naturalized as a Thai or
has recovered Thai nationality;
(3) is one who used to have Thai Nationality;
(4) is a husband of a person with Thai nationality.

Those under section 10 must have PR while those under section 11 do not have to have it.

See: Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1965) with amendments until B.E. 2555 (2012)

[KevT]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

(4) having a domicile in the Thai Kingdom for a consecutive period of not less than five
years till the day of filing the application for naturalization;

But under section 10, with having domicile—like what Arkady said with having had a tabian baan for 5 years—would mean not requiring PR?

Edited December 3, 2017 by KevT

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, KevT said:

But having domicile—similar to what Arkady said with having had a tabian baan for 5 years—would mean not requiring PR?

That means being registered in a blue tabien ban which can only be done if you are on PR.

Those married to a Thai must be registered in a yellow tabien ban when they apply.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

57 minutes ago, VIBE said:

Sorry, a more pressing issue, is what am I expected to wear for the interview at the NIA?  A suit?  Or a button shirt with jeans?  Black jeans perhaps?  Wife is saying trousers, but I honestly don't know what those are.

I'd say that being yourself dressed in the best presentation you want to give of yourself will make it. Anything clean and polite should be fine. I don't think a business suit is required, unless someone feels more comfortable wearing it. I did wear an office shirt with neck tie, office pants. My NIA interview took place in the middle of a non-air conditioned food court.

[Neeranam]

I went to my amphur today with my legalized, translated birth certificate and passport, as requested. This was to get my parents names on the housebook.

Sadly got an old hag, who said I needed a translation of my marriage certificate by the UK embassy.  I said I didn't and stood my ground. Then a younger one came and said I needed something else, the house owner to be there. I made a stance and pointed at the two other officers that told me exactly what I needed and how much it cost me to get them. So she disappeared to see the boss, after me giving her a hard luck story, and said she could. Then she could not write the nationalities of my parents as the system wouldn't accept it. I called the SB who said it was important and everywhere else managed to do it. She started getting moody, and gave me the new book with my parents names but not their nationality.

Not sure where I stand now, but the SB said.it might get through the initial stage but might have to explain to the MOI.

She said it would not accept the change to British as this was my third tabien bahn in third province. Waiting to see what the SB say.

Anyways, glad I didn't walk out after seeing the first old hag. Worth just sitting there until others see there is an issue, and putting on an act at how much trouble and expense of been through at THEIR request.

Sigh, is it worth it?

[aidenai]

Sigh, is it worth it?

Absolutely! Getting all the required paper work in place can be a pain but eventually your application is accepted by SB and you're in the process.

[KevT]

14 hours ago, Arkady said:

For nationality getting 50 out of 100 points is one of the boxes you have to tick. 

Is the point system only worth the equivalent of 1 tick box in weight?

 

Say someone scores 95 since he has a PhD, earns 200,000฿/month, and all the different parts of the point system. He has all the needed documents, but barely any of the optional documents. Now say there is a different person, with all of the same ticked boxes, but 53 points instead. Those two applicants would be equal?

[GarryP]

4 hours ago, KevT said:

Is the point system only worth the equivalent of 1 tick box in weight?

 

Say someone scores 95 since he has a PhD, earns 200,000฿/month, and all the different parts of the point system. He has all the needed documents, but barely any of the optional documents. Now say there is a different person, with all of the same ticked boxes, but 53 points instead. Those two applicants would be equal?

It is a past the post system. Get the minimum 50 points and you qualify.  So in your scenario the answer would be that they are equal in that they both qualify. 

 

I am not sure what you mean by optional documents. There was nothing optional about any of the documents I submitted.