Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[DrJoy]

On 9/6/2021 at 10:09 PM, onthemoon said:

Mine starts with an 8, I am not a Thai citizen (yet). I have PR, and this number was assigned when I was included in the blue tabienban of the house I live in. 

What's causing delay for you? Did you ask your SB Officer?

[yankee99]

I guess its a fine line using your old passport. Seems to get a thai passport they want to see your foreign passport. Something about where you were born not even sure it says where you were born 

[onthemoon]

42 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

What's causing delay for you? Did you ask your SB Officer?

There is no delay. If I get the MOI interview next month, I would be exactly on schedule: 18 months after documents were submitted to MOI.

Realistically, I expect it to be a few months later according to what I read here. Nothing to worry about. I am planning to call MOI to ask for status if I haven't heard from them by November.

I'm not in a hurry: I'm not going anywhere. ;-)

Edited September 14, 2021 by onthemoon

[david143]

there is still no MOI interviews my few friends are waiting too.

[onthemoon]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I am buying a house soon and want to put it in my name, rather than my wife's.

If, for any reason, my Thai citizenship was revoked, what would happen to my house/land?

Is this risk of losing my property worth worrying about?

I believe they changed a law and now foreigners can own up to 1 rai of land if they inherited it (from example from their wife). I'm not a legal expert, so you might want to double-check this.

In the unlikely event that you lose your Thai nationality, you might want to check if that law applies somehow also to you too. 

[onthemoon]

6 minutes ago, david143 said:

there is still no MOI interviews my few friends are waiting too.

When were their documents submitted to MOI?

[david143]

Just now, onthemoon said:

When were their documents submitted to MOI?

1 friend may 2020
another
1 friend November 2020 

[DrJoy]

16 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

I believe they changed a law and now foreigners can own up to 1 rai of land if they inherited it (from example from their wife). I'm not a legal expert, so you might want to double-check this.

In the unlikely event that you lose your Thai nationality, you might want to check if that law applies somehow also to you too. 

I think that rule applies to US citizens only. Not sure 100 %

[mvdf]

1 hour ago, DrJoy said:

Don't know the exact answer to that but I do know about the naturalized Chinese couple who's Thai nationality was revoked on the grounds of gambling.

They appealed to The Hon. Administration Court, the Court reinstated their Thai nationality.

That's cause for concern. So once granted, you're expected to live an exemplary, sinless, saint-like, picture-perfect life until the day you expire, unlike locals whose Thai citizenship is irrevocable and not rescindable, regardless if they commit crimes of even the most heinous kind. Citizenship shouldn't be rescindable or voidable if applied for and granted in a lawful manner, even if that citizen later becomes a public charge or a felon.  

 

The Appeals Court rightfully ruled in favour of the Chinese couple.  

[Neeranam]

49 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

I guess its a fine line using your old passport. Seems to get a thai passport they want to see your foreign passport. Something about where you were born not even sure it says where you were born 

That's right, when getting my Thai passport, I had to show my 'old' British passport. 

It was the same when changing my nationality in a couple of banks. 

Also, I had to give immigration my passport(obviously) when I went to cancel my visa.

Showing your old  passport is not against the rules, but making use of your 'former' nationality is. 

I've heard of ลูกครึ่ง making use of their other passport to get the Native English speaker salary, but they are except from this rule because they were born Thai, unlike Naturalized Thais. 

If I tried to get a job as Thai, Native English speaker, not sure what would happen, or of it would be risky. 

[onthemoon]

13 minutes ago, david143 said:

1 friend may 2020
another
1 friend November 2020 

I see. They haven't reached their 18 months yet. The documents must mature, like a good wine. ????

[DrJoy]

3 minutes ago, mvdf said:

That's cause for concern. So once granted, you're expected to live an exemplary, sinless, saint-like, picture-perfect life until the day you expire, unlike locals whose Thai citizenship is irrevocable and not rescindable, regardless if they commit crimes of even the most heinous kind. Citizenship shouldn't be rescindable or voidable if applied for and granted in a lawful manner, even if that citizen later becomes a public charge or a felon.  

 

The Appeals Court rightfully ruled in favour of the Chinese couple.  

You're points are valid but unfortunately thats how it is.

One Brits Thai citizenship cancelled because he was found using his British PP in Thailand, which is forbidden in the nationality act. Unfortunately, he never appealed to the court.

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, mvdf said:

That's cause for concern. So once granted, you're expected to live an exemplary, sinless, saint-like, picture-perfect life until the day you expire, unlike locals whose Thai citizenship is irrevocable and not rescindable, regardless if they commit crimes of even the most heinous kind. Citizenship shouldn't be rescindable or voidable if applied for and granted in a lawful manner, even if that citizen later becomes a public charge or a felon.  

 

The Appeals Court rightfully ruled in favour of the Chinese couple.  

I don't know the seriousness of the Chinese Thais, but imagine it was a large scale gambling operation.

One is not going to get their citizenship revoked for playing a friendly game of poker, for example, or for minor misdemeanors, I hope!  

[DrJoy]

28 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

There is no delay. If I get the MOI interview next month, I would be exactly on schedule: 18 months after documents were submitted to MOI.

Realistically, I expect it to be a few months later according to what I read here. Nothing to worry about. I am planning to call MOI to ask for status if I haven't heard from them by November.

I'm not in a hurry: I'm not going anywhere. ;-)

You should visit them with some small gifts. No harm in that.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, DrJoy said:

You're points are valid but unfortunately thats how it is.

One Brits Thai citizenship cancelled because he was found using his British PP in Thailand, which is forbidden in the nationality act. Unfortunately, he never appealed to the court.

Yes, but I think he was Thai due to his parents being PRs or getting citizenship under the previous rules, which changed around 1980. I'm sure @Arkadycould confirm. 

[DrJoy]

18 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Yes, but I think he was Thai due to his parents being PRs or getting citizenship under the previous rules, which changed around 1980. I'm sure @Arkadycould confirm. 

In the RG it's mentioned as ` This person was found using his Father's nationality`

 

See the attachment.

Thai_Citizenship_Revoked.PDF

Edited September 14, 2021 by DrJoy

[mvdf]

53 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

You're points are valid but unfortunately thats how it is.

One Brits Thai citizenship cancelled because he was found using his British PP in Thailand, which is forbidden in the nationality act. Unfortunately, he never appealed to the court.

Disturbing arbitrariness. So before doing (literally) anything, a naturalized Thai should first check what the law says about it and be on his or her best behaviour at all times. Nice.  

[DrJoy]

17 minutes ago, mvdf said:

Disturbing arbitrariness. So before doing (literally) anything, a naturalized Thai should first check what the law says about it and be on his or her best behaviour at all times. Nice.  

Section 19 of the Nationality Act -

 

 The Minister shall have the power to revoke Thai nationality of a person who acquires Thai nationality by naturalization, if it appears that:

 

(1) the naturalization is effected by concealment of facts or making false statement of essential facts;

 

(2) there is evidence indicating that the naturalized person still uses his or her former nationality;

 

(3) having committed any act prejudicial to the national security or conflicting with the interests of the State or amounting to an insult to the nation;

 

(4) having committed any act in contrary to the public order or good morals;

 

(5) having resided aboard without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years;

 

(6) having retained the nationality of the country at war with Thailand.

[onthemoon]

2 hours ago, DrJoy said:

I think that rule applies to US citizens only. Not sure 100 %

No, that would be the Amity Act.

 

I read that something had changed this year. I just did a quick google search and could not find that. Seems to have been one of those rumours we just want to be true but aren't. Sorry for the confusion.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

“former” ? why would or should anyone give up a western nationality / passport after getting their thai passport ?

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

that “revoked” Brit ; incredible that a naturalized thai would use their other passport(s) anywhere in thailand or outside thailand on thai business  (like embassy), epecially with specific legal provision not to use other passports at all……

[DrJoy]

22 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

“former” ? why would or should anyone give up a western nationality / passport after getting their thai passport ?

You're not required to give up your original nationality to get Thai. However, you (Naturalized Thai) have to depart and enter Thailand using your Thai PP only.

 

The Brit was given warning many times not to use his Brit PP, but he never listened.

 

He broke Section 19 (2)

Edited September 14, 2021 by DrJoy

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

drjoy: incredible. with my thai child we are scrupulously careful to use his thai passport entering/ existing thailand and his UK passport in & out everywhere else………

[Arkady]

8 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

drjoy: incredible. with my thai child we are scrupulously careful to use his thai passport entering/ existing thailand and his UK passport in & out everywhere else………

It doesn't matter for them because there is nothing they can do under the law.  Under Section 14 they have the right but not the obligation to renounce Thai nationality at the age of 20, if they wish to retain their other nationality.

[DrJoy]

2 minutes ago, Arkady said:

It doesn't matter for them because there is nothing they can do under the law.  Under Section 14 they have the right but not the obligation to renounce Thai nationality at the age of 20, if they wish to retain their other nationality.

You forgot Section 17-

 

Section 17

 

 A person, who hold Thai nationality by birth in the Kingdom of Thailand and has an alien father or mother, may be revoked of his or her Thai nationality, if it appears that:

 

(1) he or she resides in a foreign country, where his or her father or mother has or used to have nationality, for a consecutive period of more than five years from the date of his or her becoming sui juris;

 

(2) there is evidence indicating that he or she uses the nationality of his or her father or mother or other nationality, or has inclined towards the nationality of his or her father or mother, or other nationality;

 

(3) having committed any act prejudicial to the national security or conflicting with the interests of the State or amounting to an insult to the nation;

 

(4) having committed any act in contrary to the public order or good morals. The Minister shall order the revocation of Thai nationality in cases of (1) or (2). A Court, upon request from the Public Prosecutor, shall order the revocation in cases of (3) or (4)

[Arkady]

25 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

You're not required to give up your original nationality to get Thai. However, you (Naturalized Thai) have to depart and enter Thailand using your Thai PP only.

 

The Brit was given warning many times not to use his Brit PP, but he never listened.

 

He broke Section 19 (2)

Maybe you know him but I only know the details in the RG announcement. So I don't know, if he was warned or if he attempted to appeal the decision like the Chinese couple.  Since they used section 17 on him he was clearly Thai through birth in Thailand and I would argue that situation would now be covered by the 2017 constitution which prohibits involuntary revocation in the case of those Thai through birth. Of course they might argue that Thai through birth means birth to a Thai parent but that is not what the constitution says. Most likely he was born to expat parents and for, all we know, he might not have cared about his Thai nationality.  He might have been brought up in the UK and lived his life there and just came to Thailand on holiday without bothering to renew his Thai passport or maybe never even had one. Of course it would be tragic if he was living in Thailand and just didn't have his Thai passport handy for some reason.

 

Some of you may recall the case a few years go of a naturalised Thai scientist who was having one of those terrible defamation rows with a well connected Thai.  His opponent was unaware he was a naturalised Thai and disgustingly used his connections to have Immigration blacklist him.  As luck would have it he was on a trip where he lost his Thai passport.  Since he couldn't be bothered to delay his return trip by several days while he went to a Thai embassy to get a new passport, he decided to travel back on his farang passport, not knowing about the Immigration blacklist or of the risks to a naturalised Thai or using the farang passport.  When he arrived, all hell broke loose and he was arrested and told he was to be deported.  But Immigration was stunned by his claim that he was actually Thai.  He was held in the airport for about three days while he got irrevocable evidence of his Thainess but no one ever threatened him with revocation.      

[mvdf]

2 hours ago, DrJoy said:

(2) there is evidence indicating that the naturalized person still uses his or her former nationality;

 

(5) having resided aboard without having a domicile in Thailand for more than five years;

 

Conditions that should make one think twice or more before applying. Is it worth that rai of land?

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

yes Arkadu and my son is thai by blood & birth, not naturalized, so his thai status cannot be revoked.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

that revoked Brit appeared determined to endlessly mock his Thai Passport, despite official warnings.

If so he then received his just desserts. 

[DrJoy]

9 minutes ago, mvdf said:

 

Conditions that should make one think twice or more before applying. Is it worth that rai of land?

 

If you're eligible for Thai citizenship, you should apply. These rules are rarely enforced, don't be too scared.