Six suffer partial paralysis after inoculation with Sinovac vaccine

[placnx]

On 4/22/2021 at 5:23 PM, Kaopad999 said:

exactly man, it's all down to personal choice at the end of the day, vaccines and certain medicines should never be mandatory. If people are super worried about Covid, then they simply have the choice to go and get  vaccinate and be done with it. that's absolutely fair enough and i have nothing against people wishing to do so.  But what i hate seeing  is when where people start shaming others who choose not to get vaccinated.  

You can get Covid, not even know it, and become a superspreader, especially if you like to go bar hopping. So think of others who may be more vulnerable than you. The presence of these more infectious variants has changed the game.

[Dogmatix]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

in some places health volunteers have gone door to door, but only in some. Not where I am.

 

During the Spanish flu pandemic in 1918 health workers went door to door in Philadelphia where an outbreak caused by the mayor's stupidity in not stopping a street parade claimed over 20,000 lives. In tenement buildings the health workers sometimes found whole families of up to six people dead from the flu.  I hope it doesn't get to that in Thailand but the current outbreak is the result of similar stupidity by authorities. 

[placnx]

On 4/22/2021 at 5:31 PM, Jeffr2 said:

You should do some research on this.  I'm not trivializing this at all!!!!  And yes, I'm pro vax because I want to defeat this enemy.  The sooner the better.

 

Blood clots happen every day, to thousands of people.  None of whom have gotten a jab.

 

https://healthcare-in-europe.com/en/news/fatal-blood-clots-claim-500-000-eu-lives-annually.html

Fatal blood clots claim 500,000 EU lives annually

Still, it's important to investigate the reason for these clots, especially if they are a more unusual type. Europe, UK, and US have done so, and found a linkage to J&J and AZ vaccines, though rare. It may help us better understand this virus.

[Sheryl]

16 minutes ago, placnx said:

Do take care since the UK and Indian variants affect younger people more than the original, and they are more infectious. We have a report that 40 kids 2-6 in day care in CM plus three adults got Covid. Apparently some of these kids are pretty sick. There is such a thing as 'long Covid' that may include clotting.

 

A 29 year old Thai woman died yesterday from COVID.

[placnx]

8 hours ago, sandyf said:

Garbage. Apart from being bad advice in general it highlights a basic misunderstanding.

The problem that appears to have been identified is a low platlet count and blood thinners would be the last thing you would want. Platlets thicken the blood and a low count can lead to internal bleeding. In extremely rare circumstances it has been found in a low count the platlets have stuck together causing what has been mistakenly called "clots". Not quite the same as clots created in the normal sense of the word.

A similar condition was found to be caused by the anticoagulant Heparin.

https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.g7566#:~:text=Heparin induced thrombocytopenia (HIT) is,and produce a hypercoagulable state.

In fact Heparin is contraindicated for treating AZ/J&J induced clotting.

[placnx]

8 hours ago, elgenon said:

Sinovac has an efficacy of 50.4 % according to Chinese. Above 50% to be effective.

This 50% standard is not useful for generating herd immunity.

[BenDeCosta]

1 hour ago, placnx said:

This 50% standard is not useful for generating herd immunity.

 

The percentage of the population that needs to be vaccinated in order to achieve herd immunity varies depending on the pathogen in question. But it definitely will be more than 50%. As an example, measles, which is also a virus, requires 95% of the population to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. And if the vaccine is only 50% effective, you almost certainly never achieve herd immunity.

Edited April 23, 2021 by BenDeCosta

[Danderman123]

6 hours ago, chilli42 said:

The story circulating in the Thai press yesterday is that 400 people were vaccinated in the north and 40 had serious medical side effects that needed medical treatment.  I don’t see this on TVF.  Anyone else see this story?

Yeah, I saw that the number 40 was disputed by the government.

[Neeranam]

On 4/22/2021 at 7:11 AM, Danderman123 said:

I would suggest that anyone getting vaccinated with Sinovac eat some aspirin first. 

Is this sound medical advice? 

[Danderman123]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Is this sound medical advice? 

Probably not. I’m not a doctor, I’m just an anonymous guy on some forum.

 

The reality is that the source of the clotting is still unknown. Normally, aspirin is useful in thinning the blood, but in this case, clots may be caused by some currently unknown mechanism.

[placnx]

2 hours ago, BenDeCosta said:

 

The percentage of the population that needs to be vaccinated in order to achieve herd immunity varies depending on the pathogen in question. But it definitely will be more than 50%. As an example, measles, which is also a virus, requires 95% of the population to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. And if the vaccine is only 50% effective, you almost certainly never achieve herd immunity.

As we have been getting more infectious variants, the percentage of vaccinated needed to reach herd immunity has been increasing. Early on, it was 70%, but some people are saying 80 or 85%. As for the efficacy of vaccines, a higher efficacy will reduce the spread. I believe that higher efficacy would make it more difficult for new variants to emerge. Higher efficacy and higher vaccination rate work together to block the virus. 

[Selatan]

14 hours ago, elgenon said:

Sinovac has an efficacy of 50.4 % according to Chinese. Above 50% to be effective.

The Butantan Institute of Brazil, which was involved in the Sinovac trials, had set 6 grades of infections - asymptomatic, very mild, mild, low-moderate, high-moderate and severe, whereas other vaccines were subjected to just 3 grades - mild, moderate, severe.

If the SInovac trials in Brazil had also used 3 grades like the other vaccine trials in other countries, the Sinovac's efficacy rate would be 78% instead of 50.4%.
 

[Selatan]

6 hours ago, placnx said:

Still, it's important to investigate the reason for these clots, especially if they are a more unusual type. Europe, UK, and US have done so, and found a linkage to J&J and AZ vaccines, though rare. It may help us better understand this virus.

The type of rare clotting problem associated with J&J, AZ, Pfizer and Moderna is called thrombocytopenia, which can't be solved using blood thinners (warfarin, aspirin) like most ordinary blood clots .

 

Thrombocytopenia is a situation where there is a lack of platelets to support clotting.

[Selatan]

But of course if ischemic stroke has occurred, then doctors can choose to inject IPA.

 

Whereas thrombocytopenia caused by the mRNA and viral vector vaccines  is much harder to deal with.

 

The spike protein of the Sars-Cov-2 virus can cause blood clots by itself, so it's not surprising if an inactivated virus vaccine such as Sinovac can cause some blood clots.

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, placnx said:

In fact Heparin is contraindicated for treating AZ/J&J induced clotting.

No such thing as induced clotting.

It is Thrombocytopenia that can be induced by a variety of conditions. The platlets sticking together is an extremely rare side effect of Thrombocytopenia.

Heparin was in use for about 30 years before the reduced platlet & clotting condition came to light. The fact that it has been noted so quickly with the vaccine is a testament to the improved monitoring arrangements.

I had Dengue fever about 10 years ago and Thrombocytopenia is a known result of that condition. My platlet count dropped to around 25000 and had to stop taking the aspirin. People that die from Dengue do so from hemorrhagic fever or blood pressure problems, never hear of blood clots and there is something like 4 million a year die from Dengue.

[anchadian]

Thai News Reports

 

@ThaiNewsReports

·

1m

 

The Chinese Embassy in Bangkok has just posted to say that 500,000 doses of Sinovac has just landed bringing the total to 2.5 million. They said, “The Chinese and Thai people have a close bond. China will continue to help Thailand in the prevention and fight against COVID-19.”

 

 

[elgenon]

9 hours ago, Selatan said:

The Butantan Institute of Brazil, which was involved in the Sinovac trials, had set 6 grades of infections - asymptomatic, very mild, mild, low-moderate, high-moderate and severe, whereas other vaccines were subjected to just 3 grades - mild, moderate, severe.

If the SInovac trials in Brazil had also used 3 grades like the other vaccine trials in other countries, the Sinovac's efficacy rate would be 78% instead of 50.4%.
 

I read what a Chinese official in China said. Don't know about brazil.

[madmitch]

The Government somehow needs to educate the populace regarding the safety of the vaccines compared with the potential effects of Covid-19, or even getting on a motorbike!

 

It seems the few cases of serious side-effects has put fear into Thailand's citizens.

 

The Mrs, who has had her fist vaccine, spoke to her family yesterday in Chachoengsao province. The whole village had been approached with regard to the vaccine. Apparently a mere three people out of a couple of thousand took the vaccine, the others being scared of the side-effects, convinced that it could kill them!

 

If this attitude is prevailing throughout Thailand's villages then what are the chances of getting the pandemic under control and opening the country to tourism?

 

On top of that the whole vaccination process appears disorganised. They need to get their act together before the mass vaccinations start in June/July when the Astra Zeneca batches are ready or they will be in deep sh!t!

 

 

[Jeffr2]

32 minutes ago, madmitch said:

The Government somehow needs to educate the populace regarding the safety of the vaccines compared with the potential effects of Covid-19, or even getting on a motorbike!

 

It seems the few cases of serious side-effects has put fear into Thailand's citizens.

 

The Mrs, who has had her fist vaccine, spoke to her family yesterday in Chachoengsao province. The whole village had been approached with regard to the vaccine. Apparently a mere three people out of a couple of thousand took the vaccine, the others being scared of the side-effects, convinced that it could kill them!

 

If this attitude is prevailing throughout Thailand's villages then what are the chances of getting the pandemic under control and opening the country to tourism?

 

On top of that the whole vaccination process appears disorganised. They need to get their act together before the mass vaccinations start in June/July when the Astra Zeneca batches are ready or they will be in deep sh!t!

 

 

Vaccine hesitancy is a big deal now in the US.  They think they can get to 50% pretty easily, but after that, it's going to be hard.  Why?  Religion.  Fake news.  Political leaning.  Democrats are willing to take the jabs, Republicans aren't.

[Kwaibill]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Vaccine hesitancy is a big deal now in the US.  They think they can get to 50% pretty easily, but after that, it's going to be hard.  Why?  Religion.  Fake news.  Political leaning.  Democrats are willing to take the jabs, Republicans aren't.

All of the anti-science crowd, mostly Repiblican, but your original anti-vaxxers are largely from the left.

Darwin help us. 

[Sheryl]

20 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I don't seem to see here any update on the actual news. Maybe because it was anti-climatic and thus did nto generate much press.

 

The 6 women are all fine. Tests showed they did not have blood clots. In fact all tests, including scans etc, were completely negative. It is not known what caused the symptoms but presumably some sort of transitory neurological event. Whatever it was, did not occur in any of the hundreds of thousands of others who received vaccine from same batch,  the symptoms fully resolved and no irregularities were found on testing the vaccine batch.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/thailand-sticks-with-sinovac-vaccine-after-cases-stroke-like-side-effects-2021-04-21/

 

 

IF the 6 knew each other (info not provided, but they were all health workers in the same province) then a hysterical reaction is not impossible especially given the publicity around the AZ vaccine causing rare clots in very small percentage of people.    Anxiety attacks are known to cause these sorts of symptoms in some people .

 

Final conclusion of medical authorities is that it was indeed an anxiety reaction.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1214883-doctors-say-stroke-like-symptoms-after-sinovac-shot-stress-related/

 

Should note that there are different technologies used by different COVID vaccines. Increased (but still very rare, and far less than with COVID infection) risk of blood clots has been identified only in those using an adenovirus platform. Vaccines using this are: Astra Zeneca, J&J and the Russican vaccine Sputnik.

 

Research strongly suggests the mechanism through which the rare clotting occurs  is linked to the adenovirus component.

 

Sinovac used inactivated virus (old, standard vaccine technology). Moderna and Pfizer use mRNA.

 

[placnx]

12 hours ago, Selatan said:

The type of rare clotting problem associated with J&J, AZ, Pfizer and Moderna is called thrombocytopenia, which can't be solved using blood thinners (warfarin, aspirin) like most ordinary blood clots .

 

Thrombocytopenia is a situation where there is a lack of platelets to support clotting.

The question was about the clots supposedly observed with Sinovac in Thailand. A commenter suggested that it was not clotting at all but a small case of mass hysteria.

[placnx]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

No such thing as induced clotting.

It is Thrombocytopenia that can be induced by a variety of conditions. The platlets sticking together is an extremely rare side effect of Thrombocytopenia.

Heparin was in use for about 30 years before the reduced platlet & clotting condition came to light. The fact that it has been noted so quickly with the vaccine is a testament to the improved monitoring arrangements.

I had Dengue fever about 10 years ago and Thrombocytopenia is a known result of that condition. My platlet count dropped to around 25000 and had to stop taking the aspirin. People that die from Dengue do so from hemorrhagic fever or blood pressure problems, never hear of blood clots and there is something like 4 million a year die from Dengue.

OK, the problem with these rare cases of J&J/AZ is an immune reaction that destroys the platelets. Does the residue then clump?

 

Did you have the hemorrhagic form of dengue? That would normally lower your platelet count a lot. I suppose that's due to severe leakage of blood vessels. The current issue is from a different cause of Thrombocytopenia.

[actonion]

When the day comes that we can get the vaccine, i know as a foreigner we will have to pay, which means if im paying, i can choose which vaccine i want, how  will we know the vaccine of choice is the one being injected..

[Jeffr2]

7 minutes ago, actonion said:

When the day comes that we can get the vaccine, i know as a foreigner we will have to pay, which means if im paying, i can choose which vaccine i want, how  will we know the vaccine of choice is the one being injected..

Just look at the vial.

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3114262/coronavirus-fda-says-pfizer-vaccine-vials-hold

 

[DonaldBattles]

On 4/22/2021 at 7:24 AM, crazykopite said:

That’s if you haven't pegged it by then my friend The Astra Zeneca is perfectly safe all my family have had it back in the U.K. with no side effects  

What takes place in another country has no baring on Thailand. The only vaccine I have been able to find is the Chinese Sinovac. When the PM decided to load up with 800k doses of the Sinovac I wonder why he did not buy other brands that don't cause blood clots?

 

[DonaldBattles]

Sinovac is from China with love. They gave us the virus and now they want to sell us a vaccine that caused blood clots. I would not want any vaccines made in China.

[englishoak]

Chinese vaccine or Chinese virus ? tough call which carries more risk. 

[impulse]

18 hours ago, actonion said:

When the day comes that we can get the vaccine, i know as a foreigner we will have to pay, which means if im paying, i can choose which vaccine i want, how  will we know the vaccine of choice is the one being injected..

 

You may have your choice ... of whatever's available at that time.  Don't be surprised if your choice is AZ or AZ, made in Thailand.

 

When I got my Pfizer jabs in Texas, the vials were nowhere to be seen.  They had preloaded the syringes to expedite the queue.  As the boxes of preloaded syringes on the tables were depleted, a nurse brought out more from a back room where they were preloading them, assembly line style.  They were doing hundreds of jabs an hour in just that one location.

 

[Don Chance]