Six suffer partial paralysis after inoculation with Sinovac vaccine

[Nojohndoe]

Until this latest undeniably serious error in containment I was reasonably confident could avoid infection due to living remote to any common risk source until such time as a (any) vaccine would be made available which I expected to be  a long time away.

With the high potential for wide spread pockets of infection initiated by the Songkran debacle I have accepted the offer of the Sinovac vaccine made to me this morning. Sadly it seems that the local community is very resistant to being vaccinated .

[richard_smith237]

13 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

Until this latest undeniably serious error in containment I was reasonably confident could avoid infection due to living remote to any common risk source until such time as a (any) vaccine would be made available which I expected to be  a long time away.

With the high potential for wide spread pockets of infection initiated by the Songkran debacle I have accepted the offer of the Sinovac vaccine made to me this morning. Sadly it seems that the local community is very resistant to being vaccinated .

 

IF the figures are to be believed... 48,113 people have contracted Covid-19 since the onset. 

There are 69.63 million people in Thailand. 

 

So far 0.069% of people have contacted Covid-19

i.e. 69 per 100,000 people. 

 

If following basic protocols such as regular hand washing, no hand to face contact etc the chances of contraction are well managed, unless of course you find yourself in a situation whereby someone carrying Covid-19 sneezes in your face.

 

That said, if you are in a high risk group i.e. over 60 years old and / or have a comorbidity such as a pre-existing respiratory illness, are over weight, have high blood pressure, diabetes etc taking any vaccine as soon as one becomes available to you makes a lot of sense. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by richard_smith237

[sandyf]

On 4/22/2021 at 7:11 AM, Danderman123 said:

I would suggest that anyone getting vaccinated with Sinovac eat some aspirin first. 

Garbage. Apart from being bad advice in general it highlights a basic misunderstanding.

The problem that appears to have been identified is a low platlet count and blood thinners would be the last thing you would want. Platlets thicken the blood and a low count can lead to internal bleeding. In extremely rare circumstances it has been found in a low count the platlets have stuck together causing what has been mistakenly called "clots". Not quite the same as clots created in the normal sense of the word.

A similar condition was found to be caused by the anticoagulant Heparin.

https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.g7566#:~:text=Heparin induced thrombocytopenia (HIT) is,and produce a hypercoagulable state.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, Walter Travolta said:

Your comment is defending a vaccine that causes blood clots haha do you know how serious that is?

Try getting the facts right.

[elgenon]

On 4/21/2021 at 4:04 AM, scubascuba3 said:

It's getting to the point it maybe better to take your chances with covid

Sinovac has an efficacy of 50.4 % according to Chinese. Above 50% to be effective.

[Nojohndoe]

20 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

IF the figures are to be believed... 48,113 people have contracted Covid-19 since the onset. 

There are 69.63 million people in Thailand. 

 

So far 0.069% of people have contacted Covid-19

i.e. 69 per 100,000 people. 

 

If following basic protocols such as regular hand washing, no hand to face contact etc the chances of contraction are well managed, unless of course you find yourself in a situation whereby someone carrying Covid-19 sneezes in your face.

 

That said, if you are in a high risk group i.e. over 60 years old and / or have a comorbidity such as a pre-existing respiratory illness, are over weight, have high blood pressure, diabetes etc taking any vaccine as soon as one becomes available to you makes a lot of sense. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am 69, heavy smoker although zero other presenting health issues .Yes, I consider myself high risk and my wife is employed in a high volume customer turnover employment situation.

[Nojohndoe]

9 minutes ago, elgenon said:

Sinovac has an efficacy of 50.4 % according to Chinese. Above 50% to be effective.

Only in terms of absolute prevention. In terms of mitigation in development of serious symptoms a much more impressive result on par with other vaccines.

[Danderman123]

35 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

IF the figures are to be believed... 48,113 people have contracted Covid-19 since the onset. 

There are 69.63 million people in Thailand. 

 

So far 0.069% of people have contacted Covid-19

i.e. 69 per 100,000 people. 

 

If following basic protocols such as regular hand washing, no hand to face contact etc the chances of contraction are well managed, unless of course you find yourself in a situation whereby someone carrying Covid-19 sneezes in your face.

 

That said, if you are in a high risk group i.e. over 60 years old and / or have a comorbidity such as a pre-existing respiratory illness, are over weight, have high blood pressure, diabetes etc taking any vaccine as soon as one becomes available to you makes a lot of sense. 

 

 

Nope. 

 

You are using the fact that Thailand's epidemic is just starting to argue that people shouldn't take the vaccine. 

 

At what infection level would you recommend that people get vaccinated? 100,000 cases? 1,000,000 cases? 

 

 

[Danderman123]

32 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Garbage. Apart from being bad advice in general it highlights a basic misunderstanding.

The problem that appears to have been identified is a low platlet count and blood thinners would be the last thing you would want. Platlets thicken the blood and a low count can lead to internal bleeding. In extremely rare circumstances it has been found in a low count the platlets have stuck together causing what has been mistakenly called "clots". Not quite the same as clots created in the normal sense of the word.

A similar condition was found to be caused by the anticoagulant Heparin.

https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.g7566#:~:text=Heparin induced thrombocytopenia (HIT) is,and produce a hypercoagulable state.

I can't argue with you. 

 

Lets find out what is causing the blood clots. 

[Danderman123]

11 hours ago, RocketDog said:

Which is exactly what I'm doing, kinda.

I'm just staying isolated except for trips to the grocery store grocery store 2-3 times a month. Go the beach a few times. Keep the fridge stocked with Leo. 

Not too hard because that's mostly what we do anyway. 

 

I'll just hang until I can get the vaccine I want, Moderna, and it seems to save more people than it kills. 

I figure I've got at least a few months to decide. 

That's my plan and I'm sticking to it.  If anyone has a better idea I'd like to hear it. 

I flew to the US to get vaccinated. That's my plan. 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

IF the figures are to be believed... 48,113 people have contracted Covid-19 since the onset. 

There are 69.63 million people in Thailand. 

 

So far 0.069% of people have contacted Covid-19

i.e. 69 per 100,000 people. 

 

If following basic protocols such as regular hand washing, no hand to face contact etc the chances of contraction are well managed, unless of course you find yourself in a situation whereby someone carrying Covid-19 sneezes in your face.

 

That said, if you are in a high risk group i.e. over 60 years old and / or have a comorbidity such as a pre-existing respiratory illness, are over weight, have high blood pressure, diabetes etc taking any vaccine as soon as one becomes available to you makes a lot of sense.

There's a reason why few people here have caught the disease.  And it's got nothing to do with washing hands or touching your face.

 

If you don't get the jab, how are you going to feel safe in public?  In the Skytrain?  At the market?  Etc.  Not to mention, you could get sick and then spread it around.  We need to reach herd immunity via jabs to get this behind us.  Those who refuse just make matters worse.

[Walter Travolta]

17 hours ago, DavisH said:

The rate of CVT blood clotting is likely higher after getting infected with covid than following a vaccine. 

https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/brain-blood-clots-may-be-more-likely-after-covid-19-infection-than-following-vaccines

This study still needs peer review. 

I dont disagree. Im already at high risk to clot without covid, but have survived covid. Im not going to put some juice in my body to increase the chances of clotting!! What is so difficult to understand about this? 

[RocketDog]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I flew to the US to get vaccinated. That's my plan. 

That's an alternative for sure. I'm glad it worked for you. 

 

I abandoned that idea early last year as I considered the risk/reward ratio way too high. For me it still is. 

 

If I have to be stuck somewhere for indeterminate months I'd rather be here at my villa with my lady and surrounded by pineapple fields fifteen minutes from the beach. 

I'll tough it out. 

[cdemundo]

22 hours ago, friendofthai said:

Of course I mean the Vaccines that are really available for ordinary people today, not the exotic/quite_expensive/in-development ones. The commonly available vaccines are all adenovirus based. Which is a common cold virus.

I thought Moderna and Pfizer vaccines were widely available.  Isn't that the case?

I mean no vaccines are available in Thailand so where are we taking about?

[cdemundo]

20 hours ago, club said:

If its only 50.4 % reliable , What good does that do you ? Flip a coin and you get better odds. 

Efficacy refers to the number of negative events (differs by choice of trial designers, often is symptomatic infection) experienced in the vaccinated group versus the placebo group (which is proxy for non-vaccinated population).  

 

So an efficacy number of 50% means that the number of infections in the vaccinated group was half as many as the number in the placebo group.  That means that your chance of getting symptomatic infection is reduced by half.

 

It doesn't' mean that half the vaccinated people had symptomatic infection.

 

Take home is that with 50% efficiency your chance of getting symptomatic infection is reduced by half.

[Jeffr2]

50 minutes ago, Walter Travolta said:

I dont disagree. Im already at high risk to clot without covid, but have survived covid. Im not going to put some juice in my body to increase the chances of clotting!! What is so difficult to understand about this? 

That's fine. And your decision. But don't try and convince others not to. It's not what's needed right now. We'll never get through this unless we reach herd immunity via jabs.

[chilli42]

The story circulating in the Thai press yesterday is that 400 people were vaccinated in the north and 40 had serious medical side effects that needed medical treatment.  I don’t see this on TVF.  Anyone else see this story?

[Kwaibill]

On 4/22/2021 at 2:23 PM, FNQ said:

Yep.

I had my annual quad 4 flu shot a few days ago ,the young competent Doctor suggested that at my age I should also have the PCV 13 for lung protection,(phumonal) which I did. In passing he said "with both these you probably don't need the covid vac" , which I thought was an interesting comment.

And not true. Flu and pneumonia innocolationd do NOT protect against Sars ll.

"Can getting the flu shot, or vaccines against pneumonia, help ward off pneumonia brought on by COVID-19? | FAQ" https://covid19.nj.gov/faqs/coronavirus-information/slowing-the-spread/can-getting-the-flu-shot-or-vaccines-against-pneumonia-help-ward-off-pneumonia-brought-on-by-covid-19#direct-link

 

 

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts, troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Kwaibill]

Some info re: Sinovac vaccine:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-03/turkish-trials-show-china-s-sinovac-shot-to-be-83-5-effective?utm_source=url_link

[Sheryl]

I don't seem to see here any update on the actual news. Maybe because it was anti-climatic and thus did nto generate much press.

 

The 6 women are all fine. Tests showed they did not have blood clots. In fact all tests, including scans etc, were completely negative. It is not known what caused the symptoms but presumably some sort of transitory neurological event. Whatever it was, did not occur in any of the hundreds of thousands of others who received vaccine from same batch,  the symptoms fully resolved and no irregularities were found on testing the vaccine batch.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/thailand-sticks-with-sinovac-vaccine-after-cases-stroke-like-side-effects-2021-04-21/

 

 

IF the 6 knew each other (info not provided, but they were all health workers in the same province) then a hysterical reaction is not impossible especially given the publicity around the AZ vaccine causing rare clots in very small percentage of people.    Anxiety attacks are known to cause these sorts of symptoms in some people .

[GroveHillWanderer]

Difficult to say for sure, but with what is described as "stroke-like side effects" that resolve relatively quickly, it sounds a lot like Bell's Palsy, which is a temporary side effect with a number of vacccines and usually has no long-lasting effects.

Edited April 23, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[Kwaibill]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I don't seem to see here any update on the actual news. Maybe because it was anti-climatic and thus did nto generate much press.

 

The 6 women are all fine. Tests showed they did not have blood clots. In fact all tests, including scans etc, were completely negative. It is not known what caused the symptoms but presumably some sort of transitory neurological event. Whatever it was, did not occur in any of the hundreds of thousands of others who received vaccine from same batch,  the symptoms fully resolved and no irregularities were found on testing the vaccine batch.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/thailand-sticks-with-sinovac-vaccine-after-cases-stroke-like-side-effects-2021-04-21/

 

 

IF the 6 knew each other (info not provided, but they were all health workers in the same province) then a hysterical reaction is not impossible especially given the publicity around the AZ vaccine causing rare clots in very small percentage of people.    Anxiety attacks are known to cause these sorts of symptoms in some people .

Or co-workers partying?

Probably a mean suggestion, but Hong Thong imbibing can cause similar symptoms, I hear.????

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I can't argue with you. 

 

Lets find out what is causing the blood clots. 

Already been identified by the EMA in the known cases.

Low platlet count is not an uncommon condition, blood clots are not an uncommon condition. What is extremely rare is the combination of the two, so rare there is not enough data to make it an absolute certainty.

 

People who have received the vaccine should seek medical assistance immediately if they develop symptoms of this combination of blood clots and low blood platelets (see below).

The PRAC noted that the blood clots occurred in veins in the brain (cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, CVST) and the abdomen (splanchnic vein thrombosis) and in arteries, together with low levels of blood platelets and sometimes bleeding.

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-ema-finds-possible-link-very-rare-cases-unusual-blood-clots-low-blood

[Kwaibill]

Anyone hear if we in Samut Prakan can register in advance for vaccination?

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, Kwaibill said:

Anyone hear if we in Samut Prakan can register in advance for vaccination?

The government is supposed to release an app for registering in May 1.

[Dogmatix]

23 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The government is supposed to release an app for registering in May 1.

 

They said arrangements would be made for those who don't have smart phones and won't be able to register with this app but nothing announced yet.  That was a big problem with the stimulus payments last year too.

[Sheryl]

in some places health volunteers have gone door to door, but only in some. Not where I am.

[Dogmatix]

59 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I don't seem to see here any update on the actual news. Maybe because it was anti-climatic and thus did nto generate much press.

 

The 6 women are all fine. Tests showed they did not have blood clots. In fact all tests, including scans etc, were completely negative. It is not known what caused the symptoms but presumably some sort of transitory neurological event. Whatever it was, did not occur in any of the hundreds of thousands of others who received vaccine from same batch,  the symptoms fully resolved and no irregularities were found on testing the vaccine batch.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/thailand-sticks-with-sinovac-vaccine-after-cases-stroke-like-side-effects-2021-04-21/

 

 

IF the 6 knew each other (info not provided, but they were all health workers in the same province) then a hysterical reaction is not impossible especially given the publicity around the AZ vaccine causing rare clots in very small percentage of people.    Anxiety attacks are known to cause these sorts of symptoms in some people .

 

I wonder if there is a possibility of this transitory neurological event returning to visit these poor women again in the future.  One report said that symptoms included severe vomiting.  It must have been extremely unpleasant and scary for them, knowing that several people have died from vaccin side effects. 

 

In line with the Thai tradition of victim blaming, e.g. people die not from COID or vaccines but because they are too old, too fat or have diabetes, the media listed any pre-existing conditions the women had that could be blamed, if they died, including that some of them were taking contraceptive pills.  This seems a grosss invasion of personal privacy, specially as there were only six of them which made it impossible to hide in the statistics.  

 

 

[placnx]

On 4/22/2021 at 5:12 PM, Kaopad999 said:

This is exactly why i don't see the need to rush out and get vaccinated. I know this statistic reduces by a fair bit for older people and ones with health conditions, but as i'm still fairly young and pretty fit, i don't feel the potential risks of blood clots and other potential long term side effects are worth it lol
I'd much rather choose to pump my money into looking after myself so that i can remain fit and healthy. Just makes much more sense to me.

Do take care since the UK and Indian variants affect younger people more than the original, and they are more infectious. We have a report that 40 kids 2-6 in day care in CM plus three adults got Covid. Apparently some of these kids are pretty sick. There is such a thing as 'long Covid' that may include clotting.