Do you think that it's possible as a foreigner to fully assimilate into Thai culture?

[ChrisKC]

Absolutely not, whether one wants to or not!

 

Similar to the question, can a foreigner be accepted as ever fully assimilated into Thai culture?

 

I have said to myself many times, I will try to assimilate and integrate but my culture, whether considered inferior or superior is in my bones and in my soul. When living in Thailand with Thai tradition and Thai people and Thai government I accept that I have to make adjustments to my wider perspective.

 

I place myself in the position of being seen to be trying to make those adjustments with a cheerful demeanour and it has worked for me. I have had very few serious conflicts (no more than in my own country) with anyone privately or Officially over nearly 20 years in various parts of Thailand.

 

My own opinion is that living here obliges me to accept to about 70% of full integration, meaning I hope Thailand will come to me at 30%

 

If a Thai person lives in England, they should accept this 70% integration allowing me 30% adjusting to them.

 

Actually, I am hovering between 70 and 80%

[MadMuhammad]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:06 AM, Pilotman said:

No, further more, I'm not at all sure why anyone would want to fully integrate/assimilate and in effect, reject their own heritage. They are not, or should not be, mutually exclusive. That is why I cannot understand those who go for Thai citizenship. 

I think you’re very confused as to what assimilate actually means

[Neeranam]

9 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

I think you’re very confused as to what assimilate actually means

Thai people have some difficulty in assimilating ethnic groups. However, with time it gets better. There was a time when Chinese were insulted by being called 'jek' but that has changed. Similarly, with Indians and the word Kaek, which has become offensive. Next is the farang, which is now often a derogatory term. Thailand is 40 years behind the UK in many areas, including medicine, engineering and this is similar to assimilation. Take a look at a TV show I used to watch on Prime time TV, when words like Sambo or Nig Nog were acceptable -  

 

[Bredbury Blue]

On 4/23/2021 at 11:37 AM, ChipButty said:

Always funny when I see farang's Wai other farang I think it becomes a habit

 

Can I honestly say I've never seen that. A Pattaya thing maybe?

[Dickp]

After living in Thailand full time for 30 years, and living out side the US for 45 years that includes Thailand, i believe true integration is a false hood. I came to Thailand at the age of 48, after retired from the USAF 30+ and living in in England 6 + years. I came directly to Thailand without going to the US. I just made the income leave to extend my stand based on Marriage to a Thai. Had a girl born in Germany and lived in the US for 2 years then lived in England 6 + years before before coming here. School fees were high and took most of are money. Found it hard to find employment. After doing many different voluntary jobs for 2 1/2 year found entry level job in my field. Took it at heart beat even though it was less then 4,000 baht every two weeks after taxes. During those time I never was fully part of the work group, I was the Farang and they were Thai. We friendly work hard together, but there was always that difference.  With in 2 years I was in upper management and my salary was based at western pay level. I work 14 + years in Bangkok then was forced to retire at age of 65.   Retired 13 years now and doing well, owe nothing we have a great house and new car and No bills. Daughter is though collage with PhD, and working full time in her chosen field, and no student loads owed. l would really like to be working, but will be will be. Still the farang with Thai friends.  

[Pilotman]

53 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

I think you’re very confused as to what assimilate actually means

No, I think those that try to 'assimilate' are the confused ones. 

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Recently, I went to one of my banks to change my nationality, which I thought would be easy. I had to wait for 2 hours and when I got to the counter, I told the clerk that I wanted to change my nationality on my account. She was confused and asked her colleague in the adjoining booth. Then the customer there, an old Thai/Chinese woman, piped up that I could never become Thai. Her clerk agreed and then the customer in the booth 2 away shouted that farang can't change their nationality. The old woman started berating farang so I told her that I know many "Jek" who have become Thai, to which she replied that 'kon Jeen' can but they are still Chinese, farang can't and will always be farang, and she used to work in the ministry of interior! Even the doorman came along and wanted to see my ID card! The matter was fixed by calling Bangkok, but I was sat there for another hour. The manager also came along near the end and wanted my life story!

Having Thai citizenship changes little regarding locals attitude but who cares what they think?

Indeed so, the very point I have been making. 

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I have integrated into Thai society and haven't rejected my Scottish heritage in the slightest. 

You say later in this posting that you have 'changed your Nationality', you have therefore,  by definition, at least in great part, rejected your Scottish heritage, if not your roots.  You can't have it all ways, unless you are schizophrenic. I don't criticize you for this, many do as you have done, but personally, while accepting your right to do it.  I don't understand the motivation or need to take that step.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Pilotman said:

You say later in this posting that you have 'changed your Nationality', you have therefore,  by definition, at least in great part, rejected your Scottish heritage, if not your roots.  You can't have it all ways, unless you are schizophrenic. I don't criticize you for this, many do as you have done, but personally, while accepting your right to do it.  I don't understand the motivation or need to take that step.

I changed my Nationality on my bank accounts as it's not allowed to use my UK one. I have in no way rejected my roots and plan to retire there. 

Things are much easier with 2 passports, and one the main reasons for doing it was to not have to worry about visas when I'm older. Another reason was it's not hard and only cost 5,000 baht. 

 

[holy cow cm]

Honestly it is how you look and act and how they perceive that. Does what you do look natural or is it forced looking cringe worthy? Say like how a foreigner wai's or uses chop sticks. I can say I am accepted after they meet me, look at me and my actions and hear me speak as I know how to do all the dotted i's and crossed t's. But for one thing is I will never go the total way as I enjoy being me. I enjoy looking eye to eye with the big poo-yai rather than being in the you are lower system. We at least do enjoy some benefits. 

[Neeranam]

23 hours ago, mancub said:

Any real integration is dependent on a change in Thai perception of foreigners. In the West nobody feels the inclination to say "asian" on every occasion they encounter one, in the way Thai (especially children ) feel compelled to utter "falang". 

 

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, holy cow cm said:

Say like how a foreigner wai's or uses chop sticks.

 

I don't wai, and I probably use chopsticks more than most Thais.

[Pilotman]

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I changed my Nationality on my bank accounts as it's not allowed to use my UK one. I have in no way rejected my roots and plan to retire there. 

Things are much easier with 2 passports, and one the main reasons for doing it was to not have to worry about visas when I'm older. Another reason was it's not hard and only cost 5,000 baht. 

 

Okay, fair enough. For me, I would not wish to be associated with this Country as one of its citizens. It's far too corrupt, socially and educationally immature and frankly too Third World for me to be a legal citizen. I live here, temporally, only because my wife is Thai and my youngest daughter, mixed race. Interestingly, my youngest would give up her Thai citizenship easily and may well do so at some point, for all the reasons that I would support. 

[holy cow cm]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

I don't wai, and I probably use chopsticks more than most Thais.

I wai when appropriate. My strength on using chop sticks even impressed the Vietnamese as before CV-19 I went there a lot for business. In Thailand, smart Thai educated of the west business owners prefer just to wave or shake hands as it makes them feel odd. So when appropriate is how I treat it. 

[DavisH]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:48 AM, DavidH555 said:

Seen plenty of farangs wearing royal yellow shirts on Mondays trying to get in the good books of the in-laws.

Their school made them do it lol

[DavisH]

9 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Okay, fair enough. For me, I would not wish to be associated with this Country as one of its citizens. It's far too corrupt, socially and educationally immature and frankly too Third World for me to be a legal citizen. I live here, temporally, only because my wife is Thai and my youngest daughter, mixed race. Interestingly, my youngest would give up her Thai citizenship easily and may well do so at some point, for all the reasons that I would support. 

There's no need for her to give up citizenship, unless it is a requirement. MY son will keep both. Why give it up, and make travel, buying land, etc, more difficult? 

[Pilotman]

Just now, DavisH said:

There's no need for her to give up citizenship, unless it is a requirement. MY son will keep both. Why give it up, and make travel, buying land, etc, more difficult? 

Simple really, because she is not interested in Thailand any more, if she ever was. It's a holiday destination to her, nothing more than that. 

[Neeranam]

11 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Simple really, because she is not interested in Thailand any more, if she ever was. It's a holiday destination to her, nothing more than that. 

 What does her mother and her family think of this? My children want to live abroad, probably Oz, but are proud of their Thai heritage. 

[NanLaew]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:06 AM, Pilotman said:

No, further more, I'm not at all sure why anyone would want to fully integrate/assimilate and in effect, reject their own heritage. They are not, or should not be, mutually exclusive. That is why I cannot understand those who go for Thai citizenship. 

 

Aha, so you're just here for the short-time(s).

[wwest5829]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:06 AM, Pilotman said:

No, further more, I'm not at all sure why anyone would want to fully integrate/assimilate and in effect, reject their own heritage. They are not, or should not be, mutually exclusive. That is why I cannot understand those who go for Thai citizenship. 

Understood. The appeal for me would only be to be relieved of the onerous immigration requirements. Even with that, I would not want to give up my US citizenship. I suppose I feel a strong obligation to my DNA which helped found the country.

[Pilotman]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Aha, so you're just here for the short-time(s).

Of course.  We all are who have to get an extension every 12 months,.  We are here on sufferance, people who don't see this are deluding themselves. My wife and I may well move on at some point.  Its depends very much on how hacked off we both get with the government and its polices. 

[Pilotman]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 What does her mother and her family think of this? My children want to live abroad, probably Oz, but are proud of their Thai heritage. 

My wife and I quite understand her feelings.  The Thai side of the family don't care one way or the other.  They don't have her World view or her education so they can't really understand . 

[seancbk]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:00 AM, WineOh said:

I'm interested to listen to peoples views on this topic,  especially long term expats.

 

Thank you in advance for any and all responses. 

 

What do you mean by fully assimilate?  

I've lived my entire life in South East Asia, with almost 1/4 of it being in Thailand.   

I've never really bothered to learn the local languages in any of the Asian countries I've lived in, mostly because aside from Bangkok there were large numbers of working expats and large numbers of multinational companies, so most of the locals I interacted with spoke English very well.   Thailand is different because it hasn't embraced having western owned businesses here.

I have Thai friends, I eat Thai food.  I also have expat friends and eat western food.  

I'm an athiest so I'm not going to integrate into any part of the Buddhist parts of the country, but I also wouldn't be taking part in any western religious nonsense either. 

I consider Thailand my home as this is where I am living, I don't think in terms of assimilating.

 

 

[NanLaew]

On 4/23/2021 at 3:08 PM, BritManToo said:

On 4/23/2021 at 12:19 PM, 1FinickyOne said:

They call me uncle...

 

Actually, in this hot climate I definitely prefer a wai to a clammy handshake... 

Agreed, papa is an insult, uncle is entirely normal.

To a Thai any man a generation older is normally called 'lung' (uncle).

 

They can call me anything they like as long as they don't call me late for dinner.

[NanLaew]

On 4/24/2021 at 3:02 PM, mancub said:

Any real integration is dependent on a change in Thai perception of foreigners.

 

Huh? So if any foreigner wants to assimilate, he has to wait until the locals shed some preconceived notions that the foreigner thinks they hold?

 

On 4/24/2021 at 3:02 PM, mancub said:

In the West nobody feels the inclination to say "asian" on every occasion they encounter one, in the way Thai (especially children ) feel compelled to utter "falang". 

 

Hold on a minute, there's a word for that notion... ah yes.

 

Poppycock!

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, fvw53 said:

People do not apply for a citizenship to change their culture but only because it is convenient ....I do not think a former Thai PM got Montenegro passport because he wanted to change his culture

 

And the most convoluted and obtuse invocation of Thaksin's name post of the day award goes to...

[CharlieH]

Multiple off topic posts removed.

[PatOngo]

There was a time I thought I could assimilate but I could never come to terms with Thailand being centre of the universe so I just gave up! 

 

[Harveyboy]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:44 AM, mstevens said:

I answered no and honestly, I think the vast majority of Thais would never consider a foreigner (especially a Caucasian) to be Thai, no matter how hard he or she tried and no matter how fluent they became in the Thai language. In Thailand, Foreigners will always be foreigners. 

true words mate oil and water doesn't mix ..we can live here many will tolerate us us but as much as People might want we can never be the same ..

[SouthernMan3]

On 4/23/2021 at 10:48 AM, DavidH555 said:

Seen plenty of farangs wearing royal yellow shirts on Mondays trying to get in the good books of the in-laws.

Good books. Bah !

I wear yellow because I have always have and will forever love Nai Luang kap !!!

P.S. my answer is also no, but no big story. I've been here for over 30 years and I don't feel like typing a bunch.

Either you get it or you don't.