THE WEEK THAT WAS The year long Phony War is over - unless you’re a pandemic denier

[canthai55]

From the OP - "It’s time not just to rid social media of such people but for governments to look at making it a crime to say such things, a bit like some nations have laws to rein in Holocaust deniers."

 

You agree with this - Those who say/do things you do not agree with, in any medium, at any time, for any reason ?

 

I am coming to realize that what my family suffered to stop the last Regime to advocate this was all in vain.

The world is being taken over by Fanatics - Religious, Political, whatever.

Very Sad

 

[DJBenz]

1 hour ago, canthai55 said:

The right to freedom of expression is enshrined in Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which sets out in broad terms the human rights that each of us has. It was later protected legally by a raft of international and regional treaties.

Defending freedom of expression has always been a core part of Amnesty International’s work and is vital in holding the powerful to account. Freedom of expression also underpins other human rights such as the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion - and allows them to flourish.

It is also closely linked to freedom of association - the right to  form and join clubs, societies, trade unions or political parties with anyone you choose; and freedom of peaceful assembly - the right to take part in a peaceful demonstration or public meeting.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/freedom-of-expression/

 

Cool story bro, but you're still on a privately owned platform and bound by its rules.

[JackSalesman]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

You're absolutely right, there was a twitter alternative a few months back claiming to be a place for freedom of speech, decentralized and non censored, it was only up for a few days before there were murder contracts and inappropriate child material on it. They soon realized that their idea of freedom of speech does not work and moderation in those environments and forums is a must.

 

There is a Twitter alternative, it is called Gab. Working very well. No woke mods there blocking opinions they do not like. 

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, JackSalesman said:

 

There is a Twitter alternative, it is called Gab. Working very well. No woke mods there blocking opinions they do not like. 

Yes and to be a verified user you need a verified form of identification.

 

Despite this its a platform for hate speech, false news:

 

The social media history of the man accused of killing 11 people at a synagogue in Pittsburgh on Saturday was littered with anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and rants about Jews.

Many of these posts were on Gab — a social media networking site created as the “free speech” alternative to Twitter, and where the shooter’s profile read “jews are the children of satan.”

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/29/18033006/gab-social-media-anti-semitism-neo-nazis-twitter-facebook

 

Guess if you want to hang out there its says a lot about you

Edited May 3, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[JackSalesman]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Yes and to be a verified user you need a verified form of identification.

 

Despite this its a platform for hate speech, false news:

 

The social media history of the man accused of killing 11 people at a synagogue in Pittsburgh on Saturday was littered with anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and rants about Jews.

Many of these posts were on Gab — a social media networking site created as the “free speech” alternative to Twitter, and where the shooter’s profile read “jews are the children of satan.”

 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/10/29/18033006/gab-social-media-anti-semitism-neo-nazis-twitter-facebook

 

Guess if you want to hang out there its says a lot about you

 

How many school shooters have posted something either on Facebook or Twitter? Almost all of them. Guess if you want to hang out there its says a lot about you too? This works both ways, pal. 

 

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, JackSalesman said:

 

How many school shooters have posted something either on Facebook or Twitter? Almost all of them. Guess if you want to hang out there its says a lot about you too? This works both ways, pal. 

 

Facebook deletes those as soon as they are found the very definition of moderation.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[JackSalesman]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Facebook deletes those as soon as they are found the very definition of moderation.

Gab does the same for accounts breaking an actual law. Facebook/Twitter remove and block politically incorrect opinions and users they do not like in their woke bubble. Maybe you should read something else than pathetic Vox bs....

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, JackSalesman said:

Gab does the same for accounts breaking an actual law. Facebook/Twitter remove and block politically incorrect opinions and users they do not like in their woke bubble. Maybe you should read something else than pathetic Vox bs....

LOL....................vox is one ref point out of hundreds. 

[upu2]

On 4/25/2021 at 8:08 AM, johnnybangkok said:

You mean aprt from https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-briton-21-with-no-existing-health-conditions-dies-after-contracting-covid-19-11963451

 

and https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/18-year-old-illinois-woman-with-no-prior-health-conditions-dies-of-covid-19/

 

Or even https://abcnews.go.com/US/wrecked-lives-families-young-adults-died-covid-19/story?id=74148061

 

It is NOT just the obese or people with underlying health conditions. Please educate yourself.

You use all the news channels that have been shown to spread false information

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

people are “denying” or challenging is the collectively insane, tyrannical & massively costly (human & economic) anti- covid “ lockdown” dogma  applied to entire 99.9 % healthy populations ..... and STILL failing to protect the vulnerable...... West needed to adopt the sensible South Korea type digital test & trace measures from the start........ left it too late then paniced about losing votes & power........

[johnnybangkok]

Again a lot of the Covid deniers and 'wake up you sheeple' types on this thread giving their tuppency worth against points that are beyond a doubt.
My advice? If your views require you to assume that every expert who disagrees with you is part of some sort of massive conspiracy on a global scale, involving millions of health care workers, government employees, all the MSM (aprt from your media of course) the sick, the dying and the dead, then maybe, just maybe, you should probably re-evaluate YOUR views.

Just saying. 

[Tim207]

On 4/24/2021 at 10:02 PM, rooster59 said:

people who believe they have a right to free speech.

 

It’s time not just to rid social media of such people but for governments to look at making it a crime to say such things, a bit like some nations have laws to rein in Holocaust deniers.

 

Pandemic and vaccine deniers need at the very least to be called out at every opportunity and possibly banned and prosecuted. 

 

 

On 4/24/2021 at 10:02 PM, rooster59 said:

Putin was going to help the Thais out with his Sputnik VAX. Maybe it's OK but I’d rather not have anything to do with that murdering tyrant

 

<deleted>

You sound like more or a tyrant than Putin. Silence all who disagree with you, lock them up if they dare to voice oppinions that you deem dangerous. 

 

What is dangerous is authoritarians who believe they should have the right to decide what others should be able to say and by extention what information others should be allowed to hear. People need to be free to decide for themselves what information is more accurate after hearing ALL viewpoints. Your views on censoring desenters is akin to Mao, Stalin, and a host of petty dictators history is littered with.

[AlexRich]

I was reading a comment posted on a local newspaper about Seychelles. The poster was a vaccine sceptic and was pointing out that the Seychelles population has a high percentage of vaccinated people yet the virus is still spreading. I wondered about that, as the UK and Israel appear to be doing well? It seems that the Seychelles have been using the Chinese vaccine ... so it may not be as effective as the others. I’m sceptical about Russia also, it may be an effective vaccine but I’m not sure how rigorously it was tested.

[Danderman123]

On 5/7/2021 at 11:45 AM, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

people are “denying” or challenging is the collectively insane, tyrannical & massively costly (human & economic) anti- covid “ lockdown” dogma  applied to entire 99.9 % healthy populations ..... and STILL failing to protect the vulnerable...... West needed to adopt the sensible South Korea type digital test & trace measures from the start........ left it too late then paniced about losing votes & power........

Lockdowns are effective in reducing new infections.

[johnnybangkok]

11 hours ago, Tim207 said:

 

 

 

<deleted>

You sound like more or a tyrant than Putin. Silence all who disagree with you, lock them up if they dare to voice oppinions that you deem dangerous. 

 

What is dangerous is authoritarians who believe they should have the right to decide what others should be able to say and by extention what information others should be allowed to hear. People need to be free to decide for themselves what information is more accurate after hearing ALL viewpoints. Your views on censoring desenters is akin to Mao, Stalin, and a host of petty dictators history is littered with.

Yeah but the BIG problem is they don't hear ' ALL viewpoints'. They invariable find an echo chamber and before you know it, they are so far down the rabbit hole they cannot even see the how they got in.
Purposeful and malicous misinformation is a serious problem as you can see now in India with misleading claims leading to the current explosion in cases there   https://www.bbc.com/news/55768656. But even before then, India (and many, many more places) had issues with ant-vaxxers and snake-oil salesmen peddling their wares to a gullible population, putting millions of people, especially children at risk

https://www.ha-asia.com/misinformation-and-vaccine-hesitancy-putting-lives-of-millions-of-children-at-risk-in-india/.

You talk of free speach but as we know (and has been already explained on this thread) free speach does not mean freedom from consequences and the same as you are not allowed to shout 'fire!' in a crowded cinema, you should not be allowed to spout this nonsense when there are so many lives at stake.

 

And enough of the Mao/Stalin examples. It's not an accurate comparison and such histrionics really doesn't help your point.

Edited May 11, 2021 by johnnybangkok

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

tyranny is still tyranny in any form

even democratic govts have misled us here by exagerated covid death forecasts, lied about effective measues & used fear to compel compliance,

and STILL failed to protect the vulnerable.......

freedom of speech should ideally be absolute , with consequences, but without being criminal. consequences of income loss, reputation loss civil lawsuit, physical assault etc are quite sufficient..........

politicians cannot be trusted to make legal limitations to free speech as

they end up protecting special interest groups, usually religions,to win votes.

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

even democratic govts have misled us here by exagerated covid death forecasts, lied about effective measues & used fear to compel compliance,

and STILL failed to protect the vulnerable.......

freedom of speech should ideally be absolute , with consequences, but without being criminal. consequences of income loss, reputation loss civil lawsuit, physical assault etc are quite sufficient..........

politicians cannot be trusted to make legal limitations to free speech as

they end up protecting special interest groups, usually religions,to win votes.

The very empitomy of a straw man argument.

You conflate 'protecting special interest groups, usually religions,to win votes' with hard and fast scientic evidence. No one is asking you to trust politicians but is it so much to ask to trust the science that has (on the whole) rarely had any other agenda other than the betterment of mankind?
And I'll also take you to task on your other statements:-

1. 'exagerated covid death forecasts' - how has the forecasts been exagerated? the numbers could have been truly horrific IF the pandemic was left to it's own devices. That's true and well documented with estimations of anything from a conservative 7 million dead to a horrific 40 million.

2. 'lied about effective measues & used fear to compel compliance' - so they lied about social distancing, lockdown, face masks etc? I don't think so.

3. 'and STILL failed to protect the vulnerable' - only because they didn't listen to the science early enough or instigate the 'effective measures' you now dismiss but by the way PLENTY of the most vulnerable have been protected. If you hadn't noticed, that's what the whole of this last year has been about.

 

Governments have had to walk a very think line and in most cases, did not walk it well enough but that doesn't negate the fact that science had this worked out early in the pandemic (see Taiwan, S.Korea, New Zealand and even Thailand) and if people would only listen to the science  even now rather than every single conspiracy nut who has questione lockdowns, social distancing and eventually vacines (thus preventing herd immunity), then many countries would have been out of this by now (the USA being the prime example - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-021-01056-1)  

It's easy to point fingers after the fact (and I for one have done plenty of it) but to conflate stopping misinformation to save lives with 'tyranny' is just a step too far and just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.   

[Tim207]

7 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Yeah but the BIG problem is they don't hear ' ALL viewpoints'. They invariable find an echo chamber and before you know it, they are so far down the rabbit hole they cannot even see the how they got in.

Who is "they"? Do you mean people who are too dumb to agree with you? While I agree that people tend to gravitate towards information that reinforces the ideas they already believe, that is not a justification for silencing alternate viewpoints.

 

8 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Purposeful and malicous misinformation is a serious problem as you can see now in India with misleading claims leading to the current explosion in cases there   https://www.bbc.com/news/55768656.

 

I read the article and I saw no examples of purposeful or malicious misinformation. There were incorrect statements that are demonstably false but people can be mistaken, that does not make them malicious misinformation. There is also nothing that links any of these statements as being the cause of a spike in cases. You are inferring that India could have or would have vaccinated all these people if not for people voicing dissenting views.

 

The article you sight is actually an example of your own echo chamber. Their main example of a misleading claim is

 

Ashutosh Sinha, of the opposition Samajwadi Party, has said: "I think the vaccine may contain something which can cause harm. You can become impotent, anything can happen."

 

Which is then dismissed as false with the statement.

 

But there is no proof that vaccines make you impotent

 

It is true that there is no evidence that the vaccine causes impotence, it is also true that there is no evidence it does not. It probably doesn't but that is irrelevant because this side issue is being used to discredit his main statement. The main statement being he thinks the vaccine may cause harm. The impotence statement is just an example of the possibilities. The reality is m-rna vaccines have not had large scale long term human testing and the effects can not be known.

 

9 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

You talk of free speach but as we know (and has been already explained on this thread) free speach does not mean freedom from consequences

 

Ah yes, people can have their freedom of speach as long as they understand that the consequences of having a different view is the loss of their freedom of speach.

 

9 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

And enough of the Mao/Stalin examples. It's not an accurate comparison and such histrionics really doesn't help your point.

 

 I think the comparison is quite apt and I stand by it. You want to silence opposition rather than show that you are correct

[johnnybangkok]

23 minutes ago, Tim207 said:

Who is "they"? Do you mean people who are too dumb to agree with you? While I agree that people tend to gravitate towards information that reinforces the ideas they already believe, that is not a justification for silencing alternate viewpoints.

 

 

I read the article and I saw no examples of purposeful or malicious misinformation. There were incorrect statements that are demonstably false but people can be mistaken, that does not make them malicious misinformation. There is also nothing that links any of these statements as being the cause of a spike in cases. You are inferring that India could have or would have vaccinated all these people if not for people voicing dissenting views.

 

The article you sight is actually an example of your own echo chamber. Their main example of a misleading claim is

 

Ashutosh Sinha, of the opposition Samajwadi Party, has said: "I think the vaccine may contain something which can cause harm. You can become impotent, anything can happen."

 

Which is then dismissed as false with the statement.

 

But there is no proof that vaccines make you impotent

 

It is true that there is no evidence that the vaccine causes impotence, it is also true that there is no evidence it does not. It probably doesn't but that is irrelevant because this side issue is being used to discredit his main statement. The main statement being he thinks the vaccine may cause harm. The impotence statement is just an example of the possibilities. The reality is m-rna vaccines have not had large scale long term human testing and the effects can not be known.

 

 

Ah yes, people can have their freedom of speach as long as they understand that the consequences of having a different view is the loss of their freedom of speach.

 

 

 I think the comparison is quite apt and I stand by it. You want to silence opposition rather than show that you are correct

You talk about 'alternative viewpoints' as if it's a discussion on your favourite football team or whether Hawiian is a proper pizza. This is life and death stuff and your 'alternative viewpoint' has cost and is still costing lives. As the saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinion; you're just not entitled to your own facts and when those 'opinions' start taking the form of facts (which they definately are not) and impact on peoples lives, then there is justification to stop those 'opinions' for the greater good.

And if you want to talk about reality, you state with again a conviction that oversteps your knowledge that 'The reality is m-rna vaccines have not had large scale long term human testing and the effects can not be known' when over 1.3 BILLION vacines (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html) have so far been administered over the last 5 months with NO (I repeat no) discernable downside or long term effects noted. Every single time a 'theory' has developed to try and disprove this (makes you infertile, blood clots etc) science has easily disproved them.

Your statement 'It is true that there is no evidence that the vaccine causes impotence, it is also true that there is no evidence it does not' is as inane a negative claim as it gets equal to 'you can't prove there's no man in the moon' and 'you can't prove theres no fairies at the bottom of my garden'.

And finally, no one is trying to 'silence opposition' (dramatic much). This isn't a communist argument and your freedom of speach is as solid as it's always been; what I am saying is each 'opposition' to hard science facts has real life consequences that transcend your overly sensitive sensibilities and need to be reigned in for the greater good. Keep questioning by all means but when the facts are proven by empirical evidence then be a part of the solution rather than the problem. It's not that difficult and may just save lives.

[mogandave]

On 5/10/2021 at 6:59 PM, johnnybangkok said:

Again a lot of the Covid deniers and 'wake up you sheeple' types on this thread giving their tuppency worth against points that are beyond a doubt.
My advice? If your views require you to assume that every expert who disagrees with you is part of some sort of massive conspiracy on a global scale, involving millions of health care workers, government employees, all the MSM (aprt from your media of course) the sick, the dying and the dead, then maybe, just maybe, you should probably re-evaluate YOUR views.

Just saying. 

 

What if it’s mostly the “experts” getting rich on television seem to disagree with me?  

[covidiot]

There are entire countries that are pandemic deniers.

 

https://www.devex.com/news/the-countries-that-don-t-want-the-covid-19-vaccine-99243

The countries that don't want the COVID-19 vaccine

 

Though Tanzania has received widespread criticism for its policy of virus denial, it is not the only African country that has not moved to acquire vaccines. 

 

Last month, Tanzanian Health Minister Dorothy Gwajima held a press conference demonstrating how to make a smoothie with ginger, onions, lemon, and pepper, which she said could help to prevent COVID-19 infections. She did not provide any evidence for her claim but went on to state that the country had no plans to receive vaccines for the pandemic and should instead rely on hygiene measures, herbal steaming, exercise, and “natural remedies.”

[gamb00ler]

58 minutes ago, covidiot said:

There are entire countries that are pandemic deniers.

 

https://www.devex.com/news/the-countries-that-don-t-want-the-covid-19-vaccine-99243

The countries that don't want the COVID-19 vaccine

 

Though Tanzania has received widespread criticism for its policy of virus denial, it is not the only African country that has not moved to acquire vaccines. 

 

Last month, Tanzanian Health Minister Dorothy Gwajima held a press conference demonstrating how to make a smoothie with ginger, onions, lemon, and pepper, which she said could help to prevent COVID-19 infections. She did not provide any evidence for her claim but went on to state that the country had no plans to receive vaccines for the pandemic and should instead rely on hygiene measures, herbal steaming, exercise, and “natural remedies.”

I think it would be more accurate to say that certain world leaders are using every means possible to lead their citizenry in the wrong direction.  It is probably not the entirety of the population that are pandemic deniers.

[covidiot]

39 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

It is probably not the entirety of the population that are pandemic deniers.

Perhaps.

I did meet a girl from Congo. She said there were no lockdowns and no cases of covid there. But don't quote me on that. 

[Tim207]

On 5/11/2021 at 9:36 AM, johnnybangkok said:

You talk about 'alternative viewpoints' as if it's a discussion on your favourite football team or whether Hawiian is a proper pizza. This is life and death stuff and your 'alternative viewpoint' has cost and is still costing lives. As the saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinion; you're just not entitled to your own facts and when those 'opinions' start taking the form of facts (which they definately are not) and impact on peoples lives, then there is justification to stop those 'opinions' for the greater good.

And if you want to talk about reality, you state with again a conviction that oversteps your knowledge that 'The reality is m-rna vaccines have not had large scale long term human testing and the effects can not be known' when over 1.3 BILLION vacines (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html) have so far been administered over the last 5 months with NO (I repeat no) discernable downside or long term effects noted. Every single time a 'theory' has developed to try and disprove this (makes you infertile, blood clots etc) science has easily disproved them.

Your statement 'It is true that there is no evidence that the vaccine causes impotence, it is also true that there is no evidence it does not' is as inane a negative claim as it gets equal to 'you can't prove there's no man in the moon' and 'you can't prove theres no fairies at the bottom of my garden'.

And finally, no one is trying to 'silence opposition' (dramatic much). This isn't a communist argument and your freedom of speach is as solid as it's always been; what I am saying is each 'opposition' to hard science facts has real life consequences that transcend your overly sensitive sensibilities and need to be reigned in for the greater good. Keep questioning by all means but when the facts are proven by empirical evidence then be a part of the solution rather than the problem. It's not that difficult and may just save lives.

 

Either you are being deliberately obtuse or you are unable to understand my points. Repeatedly claiming views that differ from yours are dangerous and must be silenced for everone's good is exactly what every authoritarian regime does.

 

Should you be silenced for your obviously and ridiculously wrong statements?

 

"have so far been administered over the last 5 months with NO (I repeat no) discernable downside or long term effects noted."

 

There HAVE been people who suffered reactions. Whether or not the percentage is considered significant, it certainly is not 0. And if you think a 5 month time frame has anything to do with long term effects than you surely are not qualified to have your views read by others.

[johnnybangkok]

14 hours ago, Tim207 said:

 

Either you are being deliberately obtuse or you are unable to understand my points. Repeatedly claiming views that differ from yours are dangerous and must be silenced for everone's good is exactly what every authoritarian regime does.

 

Should you be silenced for your obviously and ridiculously wrong statements?

 

"have so far been administered over the last 5 months with NO (I repeat no) discernable downside or long term effects noted."

 

There HAVE been people who suffered reactions. Whether or not the percentage is considered significant, it certainly is not 0. And if you think a 5 month time frame has anything to do with long term effects than you surely are not qualified to have your views read by others.

I'm not misunderstanding anything. Your points are not that complicated.

You however are talking about 'views' whereas I'm talking about deliberate misinformation. People are welcome to their own views; they just aren't welcome to their own facts and that's unfortunately the nub of the problem, with people expressing 'views' as if they were facts and 'opinions' like they have some secret insider knowledge that is being kept from the vast majority of the scientific and medical community.

Their 'opinions' then become dangerous as they add into theirs and others already well established echo chambers, causing real life consequences for people and the community in general. A good example of this would be the current state of the US, with large swaiths of people (mostly evenagelical christains and far-right Republicans) refusing to take the vacine therefore preventing herd immunity from being achieved. Should all those that at risk from not acheiving herd immunity now respect their views because you know 'freedom of speach' and all that? As I CLEARLY stated in my last post 'Keep questioning by all means but when the facts are proven by empirical evidence then be a part of the solution rather than the problem.'

I am not 'claiming views that differ from yours (Mine) are dangerous and must be silenced for everone's good.....' but I certainly am claiming that views that differ from facts are VERY dangerous when you are talking about a wordwide pandemic.

  

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by johnnybangkok

[tlandtday]

Another stellar piece of journalis from the rusty rooster:)

[Guitarzan]

On 4/26/2021 at 9:44 PM, Patong2021 said:

 

You are playing with numbers to create incorrect scenario. Deal with the facts not with numbers you take out of context.  In 2019, there were approximately 4400 suicides. Thailand has  the highest suicide rate in SE. In late 2020 one article  in a questionable media outlet stated that suicides in the first half had increased to approximately 2500 from 2100 for the same period. Fine. Sad that there is an increase but hardly significant  in the overall scheme of things. More importantly, there was no conclusive evidence that this was due to Covid19  economic issues. To be certain, the deceased would have to leave a note or give reason, yes? And most suicides do not.  You have no idea if the increase is due to economy or because of general fear or  mass hysteria, but instead you make guess and offer it as fact.

Worse is that you try and pass the full 2500 as due to Covid economy crisis which is NOT the case.

 

Here is where you  put ball in your own net;  You make false conclusion about Thai economy. Yes, the tourist trade has collapsed, but the rest of the Thai economy has remained strong. Manufacturing,Third party services, agriculture, food processing  has all continued and even expanded.   The unemployment rate is lower today than it was  10 years ago.  The official unemployment rate as of December 2020 was 1.49%  The unemployment rate in 2001 was 3.3% and at the start of 2020 before Covid19 took hold it was 1%.   Most of the people who lost their jobs were foreign workers. Hundreds of thousands of them went back to Myanmar and Cambodia.  yes the unemployment rate increased, but the 1.49% is still considered to be a state of under employment and Thailand still has  a labour shortage.

 

Some years ago when I remember reading how  many in Thai Visa were blaming Thai government for farmer suicide because of rice  purchase scheme. All sorts of claims were made that  government made thousands kill themselves. it wasn't true then, and it is not true now. Thailand has a serious mental  illness problem and these suicides are troubled people who have been living on edge for long time. Yes, some people have killed themselves  during the Covid19  crisis, but it is not as bad as you  make it to be.

 

 

Thailand’s alarming suicide rate. An inside Asia documentary. 
 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=15nsYZ1rXEg