Rule of maintenance of land?

[TheliX]

Hi, my thai wife inherited a piece of land a couple of years ago. She now claims that she need to actively do "something" with it in reasonable time, within 10 years she says, or else the land could be forfeit?

 

Seem strange to me, why wouldn´t it be allowed to passively own land for a long period of time. It sure is where I come from (europe).

[jastheace]

i'm sure all you have to do (although this sounds weird even coming from me) is to set foot on it. evidence of visit by photo or witness, so that land is not considered to be abandoned. something along the lines also if you stay on a piece of land unhindered by the owner or any authorities (for a full 10 years) then you can have a claim to that land. i'm sure i've heard something like this... ???

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by jastheace
addendum bracketed

[northsouthdevide]

Your wife's version of the situation is 100% accurate.

The land will be sur por cor.

Which means that its allocated to a family in order to produce crops.

If the land is not worked, then the family risk it being taken from them, and given to somebody who is prepared to work it to its potential.

 

[northsouthdevide]

If you plant some mango trees on the land, they don't take much looking after, and job done.

[blackcab]

As previously stated, the land title will be Sor Por Gor, which is where the right to farm the land is granted to an individual or family. The holders of this right do not own the land. They get to utilise the land only.

 

One of the conditions is that the land does actually need to worked.

[TheliX]

Ok, thank you all for answering, she was right after all!

 

Anyhow, this piece of land is actually her family home so the mother and sister (with family) still lives in a house on it. When the father passed away my wife and her sister was given half the family land each, the initial land-piece split into two .

 

The problem is that her sister with husband and tree kids don´t to do anything to build something of their own on their half, which was the plan.

 

Will this mean that the sister can claim rights to "our" half if we don´t do anything to maintain or modify it, since she is actually living there?

 

The plan is to build a new house for us where the old house is now situated, but that probably won´t be happening in the next few years though. We definitely, neither of us, want´t to share a house with her sister and her family. The mother would of course be allowed to stay there though!

 

This has created some tension in the wife´s family lately, and we need to sort out the legal prerequisites.

[kingofthemountain]

45 minutes ago, northsouthdevide said:

If you plant some mango trees on the land, they don't take much looking after, and job done.

i would go for banana tree, no attention needed and they produce fruits on a regular basis

however the OP didn't precise in his post the size of the land, if they live near the land and if they are interested in some farming or not at all

Edit i just seen his latest post on the housing familial problem, so not for farming then lol

Edited April 25, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[kingofthemountain]

10 minutes ago, TheliX said:

Ok, thank you all for answering, she was right after all!

 

Anyhow, this piece of land is actually her family home so the mother and sister (with family) still lives in a house on it. When the father passed away my wife and her sister was given half the family land each, the initial land-piece split into two .

 

The problem is that her sister with husband and tree kids don´t to do anything to build something of their own on their half, which was the plan.

 

Will this mean that the sister can claim rights to "our" half if we don´t do anything to maintain or modify it, since she is actually living there?

 

The plan is to build a new house for us where the old house is now situated, but that probably won´t be happening in the next few years though. We definitely, neither of us, want´t to share a house with her sister and her family. The mother would of course be allowed to stay there though!

 

This has created some tension in the wife´s family lately, and we need to sort out the legal prerequisites.

If i was you i will stay far from this and don't be involved in what appears to be a  familial problem between your wife and her sister.

 

However Imo if you want to help your wife, the first thing to do is to see what is the legal situation

i mean what sort of chanote does she has exactly? (The chanote is the Thai title deed and there are a lot of differents sorts) , maybe a visit at the land office where the land is registered could also clear the situation of the land and the extend of the ''property'' of your wife

 

But looking at the situation you describe in your post, i certainly wouldn't want to build a  house on it if i was you, in a conflictual situation with the sister in law and her husband you could live in hell for a very long time

Edited April 25, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[2 is 1]

21 minutes ago, TheliX said:

The plan is to build a new house for us where the old house is now situated

Dont build house in that kind land! You can never sell it legaly. Ok if you build "village" home.

Local (do it your self man) build it for you under 1000000 bth. But dont build nice house.

[kingofthemountain]

8 minutes ago, 2 is 1 said:

Dont build house in that kind land! You can never sell it legaly. Ok if you build "village" home.

Local (do it your self man) build it for you under 1000000 bth. But dont build nice house.

For less than 1000000 bth you can have a nice house

and we don't know the OP situation, 1 million bahts is maybe more than all his assets

but i agree with you, with all these houses on familial thai lands, the house is obviously a gift for the GF\wife, not something you could sell later

Edited April 25, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[TheliX]

I understand your warnings, this is obviously not an ideal situation. When my wife and her sister was given the land three years ago, everyone seemed to agree on the plans for the future, both building a house each on their respective land-piece.

 

Things seem to have changed though due to monetary issues. The sister and her husband (also thai) both work full-time but seem incapable of saving any money for their future house. They are in their mid-thirties but basically act like teenagers, never heard of them saving any money at all actually. Quite mindblowing actually, thinking that we would build a house for them to live in also. Even my wife with her family-oriented thai mindset was provoked by this.

 

We don´t have any plans to ever sell this land, if we build a house there it is not an investment but a sentimental thing I would do for my wife. I estimate the cost to 1-1.5 million bahts and it will be a regular thaistyle village house. I obviously will not own it in any way, so all money lost in that aspect, unless maybe if we get a mutual child that can inherit both the land and the house.

 

I will check the legal status, but the land is measured and checked by the land office so it should b either Nor Sor 3 Gor or Nor Sor 4 (chanote).

[kingofthemountain]

When you say your wife and the sister were given half of the land each at the death of the father, it was an oral agrement or some papers have been done somewhere with a lawyer or at the land office?

 

Also you and your wife seem surprised the sister and her husband don't save money to build a new house, honestly why do you want they do this? They have already a house (The one occupied by the mother and them) and they don't see the necessity to invest in

a new one, maybe they even don't have enough money for that.

 

And it's in the Thai mentality to have everybody living in the same house they don't really see the need to build another one. 

 

After all they are probably thinking if you want a new house and if you have the money for it then you can still built a new one, but not here, there is already a house here and they live inside lol

You have to understand also their point of view at some point.

 

Can i ask you where are you actually? In the same area? In a rented house?

Edited April 25, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[TheliX]

The split of the land was all done at the land office and all papers are in order.

 

This whole idea of building a house each was their mutual plan, but maybe the sister was too optimistic about the financing.

 

The current house is old and beyond all hope, has to be taken down and replaced.

 

No, we don´t live in Thailand, for us this would be a house to stay in 1 month yearly for our holiday. Later we consider moving there permanently, but that´s in about 20 years when we retire.

Edited April 25, 2021 by TheliX

[kingofthemountain]

7 hours ago, TheliX said:

The split of the land was all done at the land office and all papers are in order.

 

This whole idea of building a house each was their mutual plan, but maybe the sister was too optimistic about the financing.

 

The current house is old and beyond all hope, has to be taken down and replaced.

 

No, we don´t live in Thailand, for us this would be a house to stay in 1 month yearly for our holiday. Later we consider moving there permanently, but that´s in about 20 years when we retire.

My advice is your wife and the sister have to change the papers in the land office

 

if i understand correctly the half of the land your wife owns

is the one with the mother house on it, your wife has to give this part to her sister as she lives in the house with her family. (I am sure she is more than happy with the actual ''old house beyond all hope'', at least it's free lol) and in the same time your wife has to become the owner of the other half where actualy there is nothing build on it.

 

Then when it's time you would build something on it. 

 

Honestly if you come only for holiday 1 month\year for the next 20 years i wouldn't bother with building a house on it.

 

Find the nearest hotel in the vicinity and rent when you are here

maybe you will want also go on a holiday tour around thailand or near a beach when you will be here, because the noisy neighbours (Family or not) the air pollution, your health or just because you want it.

 

Maybe just build or buy a ''light'' and cheap bungalow on your wife half land. (Some are movable, you can find the prices with some research on internet)

In Thailand with a house closed during 11 months you are going to do

only maintenance work during your stay, not really what i call a holiday 

Edited April 26, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[ChipButty]

You cant leave a house empty for 11 months the jungle will take over

[kingofthemountain]

19 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

You cant leave a house empty for 11 months the jungle will take over

Plus everything will go moldy inside the house

[ChipButty]

1 minute ago, kingofthemountain said:

Plus everything will go moldy inside the house

The termites will have a ball 

[zyphodb]

On 4/26/2021 at 12:44 AM, TheliX said:

I understand your warnings, this is obviously not an ideal situation. When my wife and her sister was given the land three years ago, everyone seemed to agree on the plans for the future, both building a house each on their respective land-piece.

 

Things seem to have changed though due to monetary issues. The sister and her husband (also thai) both work full-time but seem incapable of saving any money for their future house. They are in their mid-thirties but basically act like teenagers, never heard of them saving any money at all actually. Quite mindblowing actually, thinking that we would build a house for them to live in also. Even my wife with her family-oriented thai mindset was provoked by this.

 

We don´t have any plans to ever sell this land, if we build a house there it is not an investment but a sentimental thing I would do for my wife. I estimate the cost to 1-1.5 million bahts and it will be a regular thaistyle village house. I obviously will not own it in any way, so all money lost in that aspect, unless maybe if we get a mutual child that can inherit both the land and the house.

 

I will check the legal status, but the land is measured and checked by the land office so it should b either Nor Sor 3 Gor or Nor Sor 4 (chanote).

A thai style village house shouldn't cost more than 500,000 Bht at the most unless it's VERY big...

[CharlieH]

Mark the boundary, put a "knock-down" style home on it, 250k job done site secured.

[SomchaiCNX]

Why should her sister save money while the brother in law is a farrang ? Just a typical mindset of many unfortunately. 

[scorecard]

On 4/26/2021 at 1:45 AM, northsouthdevide said:

If you plant some mango trees on the land, they don't take much looking after, and job done.

Son says the point above is correct. Son also mentioned his buddy put up a sign stating the land was owned and would be used for agriculture or commerce in the near future.

 

Then got a local gov't official to come to the land then write on a photo the time and date the official had observed the sign.

 

But I somehow doubt that local officials are required to do things like this.

 

In reality a bit later the buddies brother put up a small house and an orchard of several fruits and stayed there and made a decent living.  

 

 

[scorecard]

On 4/26/2021 at 1:15 PM, ChipButty said:

The termites will have a ball 

 

True, Thai termites eat everything including cement and plastic and at warp speed. 

[recom273]

On 4/25/2021 at 10:57 PM, blackcab said:

As previously stated, the land title will be Sor Por Gor, which is where the right to farm the land is granted to an individual or family. The holders of this right do not own the land. They get to utilise the land only.

 

One of the conditions is that the land does actually need to worked.

Is there a time frame before it changes category? 
 

We bought a piece of land about 7 months ago and due to lack of direct flights and the purchase of adjoining land we have done nothing with the land.

 

Do I need to get someone to plant some banana trees in a hurry? 

[sead]

Needs to be settled in paper and marked by government what your wife's part is. Then start to put 2 mango, 2 banana and 2 whatever on your part. Then you can relax

 

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, recom273 said:

We bought a piece of land about 7 months ago...

 

Without knowing the type of title deed or the usage rights associated with your land your question cannot be answered.

[chilly07]

If land was granted via relatives to her by government it is forfeit if it is not used. Just plant a few mango trees. Also there could be a land tax liability. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by chilly07

[khunPer]

On 4/25/2021 at 7:44 PM, TheliX said:

I will check the legal status, but the land is measured and checked by the land office so it should b either Nor Sor 3 Gor or Nor Sor 4 (chanote).

If the title deed is Nor Sor 3 or Chanote you should have it officially subdivided by the land office. Often it's enough to fence in a high title deed land to show that it's being used, and to avoid squatters, if they stay for 10 years they can claim legal rights for the land.

Good information about title deed and rights can be found HERE.