Lending money to a Thai

[DavidH555]

1 hour ago, Ian3005 said:

A Thai woman asking for a loan should set off alarm bells and warning sirens.

Look at the lifestyle of the person asking for the loan.

If you see brand label clothing and high end accessories like Louis Vuitton, Chanel, Ferragamo etc. run like the wind.

Couldn't of said it better.

[RobMuir]

59 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

Yes basically that is correct--I see now-- you have a Thai partner which makes everything a lot easier (but not to easy) You talk about taking the Max rate + a bonus , be careful about that. It should be shown (like a bank) as set up fees, and paid when taking out the loan like the bank does not added on with interest to paid on it not allowed--its a loan or its a fee. The time factor has also changed since the Army done their raid a few years ago on illegal loans. You would have to grant her "adequate"  time for repayment. The minimum now being 1 year written into the contract.

 

In the contract, look at this as something she is not going to pay back---therefor fixtures Air-conditioners etc should all be listed as part of it.

As its a resort you may want to list everything in the contract--tables beds etc...

Thanks again Sanuk for the types of advice/experience I opened this thread for.

 

The one year rule I didn't know. Thankyou.

 

I was aware of the too high interest rate so the extra will be listed as fees.

 

I am not interested in her resort, I value it at nothing. I am only valuing her land value.

[RobMuir]

1 hour ago, Ian3005 said:

From my experience I would not give the loan as the chances of repayment is slim.

That is unless it is done legally and you have some form of security.

That is what jumrong and kaifaag is.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, RobMuir said:

Can anyone here clearly explain the difference between the two and pros and cons of each.

[RobMuir]

36 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Assume a bank already has first lien on the land.

You'll get nothing.

If a bank had a lien on it that would clearly be stated on the back of the chanote.

And she would not be able to jumnong it as she has already and which is clearly written on the back of the chanote.

[Surelynot]

Haven't read the thread, but I assume most are suggesting you are mental.

 

What security do you have? Is there any collateral that is now yours in a contact?

 

If she decides to walk I cannot see you ever getting your money back.

 

I don't even lend my wife money.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Surelynot

[Whale]

Its threads like this that make you wonder if it's ever worth asking a question on this forum. I bet half the repliers only read the title or the first paragraph. 

[bwpage3]

1 hour ago, RobMuir said:

They have a buyer (but no deposit paid yet) for the bigger resort. That has loans against it.

Expected to settle in 3 months. But being Thailand it will probably take longer as everything does.

 

Banks want her to lend for a minimum of 3 years. She doesn't want it or need it. I am charging her the maximum legal interest rate plus a bonus. Win win.

 

The smaller resort already has 800;000 jumnong against it. She will use the 2 million to pay that off, a couple of other smaller personal debts and survive on the rest until the big sale comes through.

 

She also has other land she has jumnonged.

 

Obviously been hit hard by the tourist covid situation.

 

I will only lend it against a clean land title on the smaller resort at the land office. And I believe if I jumnong her I have to go to court to take her resort, whereas if I kaifaag it I simply just kick her out and can legally sell it straight away. That actually is my main question here.

 

Until the big resort sells, you have a guarantee of nothing.

 

Wait and see if the big resorts sells.

 

COVID will drag on and on and the resort will be empty until 2023 or beyond

 

No one will be buy a resort in the current environment. 

 

Who has 80 million sitting around with no return for 2 years? No sane person.

 

You need to change your mindset to what is absolute worse that can happen? Plan for the absolute worse and if you can manage that you will be ok, if you cannot manage that, don't do it.

 

Can you lose 2,000,000 baht without ruining your life, relationships, and feeling sorry for the rest of your life? If you cannot, DO NOT do it.

 

Plan for worst, if you mitigate the worse.

[AlfHuy]

Has already a buyer but didn't receive a deposit yet....

 

Sorry, a deposit is paid quickly. Draw up a contract and secure against a deposit.

 

Done this many times.

 

Offer her 10 million baht for her resort and buy it.

She surely has some wealthy friends or clients who would smell the coffee and secure a deal but they are not coming out of their holes.

Up to you Mr farang.

[bkk6060]

I have loaned money to Thais up to 200,000 b.  Always gotten it back.

Never loan out more then you can afford to lose.

[Johnny Mac]

1 minute ago, bkk6060 said:

I have loaned money to Thais up to 200,000 b.  Always gotten it back.

Never loan out more then you can afford to lose.

I lent my sister -in-law 200k once and later once she had it asked me (via the wife) can she use it put it down as a car deposit.

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

No one will be buy a resort in the current environment. 

I would suspect there are some monied people and organizations trawling the resorts like lions on the Serengeti looking for the distressed, slowest runners and snapping up bargains............disaster capitalists will be making a fortune.

[RobMuir]

3 minutes ago, AlfHuy said:

Has already a buyer but didn't receive a deposit yet....

 

Sorry, a deposit is paid quickly. Draw up a contract and secure against a deposit.

 

Done this many times.

 

Offer her 10 million baht for her resort and buy it.

She surely has some wealthy friends or clients who would smell the coffee and secure a deal but they are not coming out of their holes.

Up to you Mr farang.

The big resort isn't just a little bed and breakfast. The buyers are doing due diligence and their is also tax complications.

 

Basically if she doesn't pay me I will be taking her small resort that is worth at least 80 million land value, which she has owned for 20 plus years.

 

She is asset rich and cash poor. I have known her for a long time, a decent educated hard working frugal woman who has just been run dry because of the covid situation.

 

I fully expect to be paid by her but am planning on using a kaifaag to more than secure it many times over.

After it is kaifaaged if she doesn't repay it i would actually be much better off.

 

 

[RobMuir]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Mac said:

I lent my sister -in-law 200k once and later once she had it asked me (via the wife) can she use it put it down as a car deposit.

Kaifaag or jumrong?

[RobMuir]

23 minutes ago, Whale said:

Its threads like this that make you wonder if it's ever worth asking a question on this forum. I bet half the repliers only read the title or the first paragraph. 

Not to worry, enough good answers from members like Sanuk to make it worthwhile.

 

I just ignore the married to a bargirl types who apparently have never heard of kaifaag or jumrong.

If they were so smart then why did they marry a bargirl?

Edited April 30, 2021 by RobMuir

[Misab]

As a farang you cannot get security in land you can never own.

Take it from one who has already been in this situation, the possibility for loosing your 2 mill if you lend her the money, it is great.

 

[Surelynot]

5 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

If they were so smart then why did they marry a bargirl?

Have you seen some of these bargirls???

[RobMuir]

Just now, Surelynot said:

Have you seen some of these bargirls???

Yes spoken to a few also.

Many lost their family land because they kaifaaged it and didn't pay it back.

 

That is what happens.

[blackcab]

3 hours ago, RobMuir said:

jumnong จำนอง or kaifaak ขายฟาก

 

There is a critical difference between the two. Jumnong is a mortgage. With a mortgage, the mortgagee (the hotel owner) remains the owner of the property. If she defaults, you will have to pay to take her to Court and then go through the whole process of the Legal Execution Department seizing the property and putting it up for auction. This will cost you money and can literally take years, especially if there are other creditors.

 

Kai Fak is a Sale with the Right of Redemption. In this situation, the hotel owner sells you her real estate at the start of the transaction, so when you hand over the money at the Land Office you absolutely own the real estate from that minute onwards. The property has been sold to you.

 

However, the prior owner has the legal right to redeem the sale and pay you back the principal plus agreed interest within the time started in the Kai Fak agreement. If the prior owner does this then the real estate legally reverts back to her. Think of Kai Fak in a similar way to a pawn shop but with added legal protection for both parties.

 

Kai Fak is a massively stronger deal for the person handing over the money. The issue is that as you are buying land then Kai Fak is normally only available for Thai citizens.

 

In addition, not every land office will register a mortgage if the mortgagor is a non Thai citizen. Even if the land office will register such a mortgage you need to be very sure that you are legally capable of issuing a valid mortgage and that it complies with all laws.

 

As a foreigner you will be a rare specimen indeed if you legally lend money to a Thai citizen against a property owned by them with a mortgage secured in your name and exit the deal without getting burnt.

 

For myself, the first question would be where will the mortgagee get the money to repay you?

 

Next, how are you going to correctly structure an interest only loan?

 

Finally, I suggest you contact a couple of reputable solicitors. Explain the situation and ask them how much it would cost you to enforce the sale of the mortgaged property through the Legal Execution Department and how long that process would take.

 

By all means go for it, but do so with your eyes wide open.

[The Man Who Sold the World]

Rob Muir:

First - you are are speaking in the English Language about Thai Real Estate as a collateral concerning money (financial) instruments. You, as far as your name identifies are a foreign citizen. 

 

Thai law is written in the Thai language, interpreted and administered by Thai Judges, advocated in a Thai court of law by Thai Attorneys. Only they, Thai Attorneys can offer you an opinion concerning how to protect yourself.

 

Any information you receive from a website is hear say at best.

 

Consult with several Thai attorneys on how to protect yourself. Consult with a few and compare their answers before you select the Thai attorney who will protect you to the best of their ability. Continue to do your due diligence.

 

Good luck, both to you and the recipient of your funds. 

[RobMuir]

18 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

I would suspect there are some monied people and organizations trawling the resorts like lions on the Serengeti looking for the distressed, slowest runners and snapping up bargains............disaster capitalists will be making a fortune.

Yes, the potential buyer of the big resort is the son of a very big name. 

They have others also from China but it gets complicated bringing in huge sums without tax implications.

 

[RobMuir]

7 minutes ago, blackcab said:

For myself, the first question would be where will the mortgagee get the money to repay you?

Beautiful, knowledgeable informed answer.

Thankyou, that is pretty much what I thought.

 

The money to repay me will be coming from the sake of the bigger resort.

If she fails it will be from me selling her smaller resort.

 

Cheers

Edited April 30, 2021 by RobMuir

[Robin]

Never lend any money to anyone if you are not prepared to lose it.  This applies to anyone, not only Thais.

Banks are in the business of lending money, and know what they are doing and the risks.  Why try to do better than they can.

 

No reason why you cannot give her 2 Millions and be surprised if you get any back.  it is your money and you can do what you want with it.

[BritManToo]

56 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

If a bank had a lien on it that would clearly be stated on the back of the chanote.

And she would not be able to jumnong it as she has already and which is clearly written on the back of the chanote.

Assuming you can read Thai well enough to know the document you are being shown is an original Chanote for that property. Anyway, go down to the land office and have the loan recorded on the Chanote same as a bank would do.

[Tagged]

6 minutes ago, Robin said:

Never lend any money to anyone if you are not prepared to lose it.  This applies to anyone, not only Thais.

Banks are in the business of lending money, and know what they are doing and the risks.  Why try to do better than they can.

 

No reason why you cannot give her 2 Millions and be surprised if you get any back.  it is your money and you can do what you want with it.

It is posts like this where I believe the OP have gone through all the scenarios that can happen, and still willing to take the risk, so I guess it is waste of time, since it will not change his decission to lend her the money, and the question is more of a technical art than common sense ???? 

 

he is willig to risk 2 million to make 200 000,- +-

[Tagged]

Or take land worth more than 2 million, where I believe his motivation lays

[BritManToo]

29 minutes ago, The Man Who Sold the World said:

Consult with several Thai attorneys on how to protect yourself. Consult with a few and compare their answers before you select the Thai attorney who will protect you to the best of their ability. Continue to do your due diligence.

You assume too much.

Mostly Thai lawyers seem to act for the benefit of other Thais when being hired by foreigners.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

You assume too much.

Mostly Thai lawyers seem to act for the benefit of other Thais when being hired by foreigners.

You assume too much.

Mostly Thai lawyers seem to act for the benefit of themselves, then other Thais when being hired by foreigners.

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, Tagged said:

When she already have values for 80 million, why she need a private loan from you? 

 

Most likely she have already past her limits with the banks, family and other possibillities.

 

 

 

I'm guessing you're aiming going to get well documented specific security.

[fdsa]

So she wants to dump a loss-making asset for 2 mil? ????