Lending money to a Thai

[Ventenio]

come on, odds of you getting your money back?  flying pigs

[chicowoodduck]

You can if you like...just get EVERYTHING written down and have all parties sign it with a witness just to be sure...with that said your chances of getting your $$$$ back with interest are pretty much ZERO!!!! ????????????????

[kwak250]

I have learnt to only lend about 2000 baht and not expect to get it back even when they brag about buying a new car or show me a new iphone they just bought.

They never can ask again but if they pay back i always let them borrow small amounts.

One thing i have learnt is if someone wants to borrow large amounts of cash there is a very good reason.

They are skint so how are you ever going to get it back? 

[wombat]

after reading about what its worth and you being a farang, you should amend your header to Giving money coz
even with paperwork you won't get your money back when the excuses start about why no payments
 

[Destiny1990]

Kai fak is possible but you will need the best legal team to iron out the uncountable little important details in the agreement and titledeed research and ofcourse with any investment there will always remain some risk element. Maybe she will back down from it once she realizes you have figured out how to do it in a safe way for you. 

[Aarin]

No come on now. No matter how safe and secure you have it to get repaid.. they will beat you every time. Be prepared to say goodbye to that 2 million and that I can guarantee you... 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Aarin

[JimHuaHin]

First point, I have lent money to Thais (professional university-educated Thais I must add) three times over the years, and have yet ro see a single Baht repaid.

 

Second, and final, point, how valid are all the legal documents?  How many times have we read of people buying land, getting the deed (which was verified by a lands office and lawyers), only to find that the document was fake/illegal, and the buy lost all?

[RobMuir]

8 minutes ago, Aarin said:

No come on now. No matter how safe and secure you have it to get repaid.. they will beat you every time. Be prepared to say goodbye to that 2 million and that I can guarantee you... 

Did you jumrong or kaifaag?

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, JimHuaHin said:

First point, I have lent money to Thais (professional university-educated Thais I must add) three times over the years, and have yet ro see a single Baht repaid.

 

Second, and final, point, how valid are all the legal documents?  How many times have we read of people buying land, getting the deed (which was verified by a lands office and lawyers), only to find that the document was fake/illegal, and the buy lost all?

Spot on.....not worth the risk....I would rather stick the 2 million in a fund.

 

My wife has lent out about a million baht....her own money.......but she is battling not only to get any capital back but get the interest paid......... and this is from close relatives....

[NVass]

Be vey careful. A few years go i did the same as the original poster is planning. When the money wasn't repaid I went to court and the nice judge gave me a letter which said the land was to be sold and the proceeds were to go to me! The result.......   When the land was sold. The nice people at land office put out an arrest warrant for me for selling land by proxy, which is upto 2 years in Jail!  Needless to say I managed to sort it out but it cost me a small fortune. All because I tried to help a Thai person!

They actually used the Judges letter as proof for the case!

Edited April 30, 2021 by NVass

[TheFishman1]

Should I give her the loan if you don’t mind losing all of your money she may have all her land mortgage to the hill If I were you I would just say no run Forrest run

[mvdf]

I once lent 1.3 million to a Thai friend of a friend via the ขายฟาก route. It was paid back with 5% within 7 months.

 

I only lend when the amount in question (in this case just about 8% of my bank-held holdings in Thailand) would not leave me destitute or depressed if it's not paid back.

[motdaeng]

if you like to borrow from a bank, is it not the same as jumnong?

 

jumnong จำนอง and kaifaak ขายฟาก, you have to legalize it at the land office ... and the condition

of the contract will be written on the back of the chanot. additional to the chanot, the land office

writes an separate contract. everything has to be sign by everyone, including copy id card,

tabian ban etc!

 

how many people you have heard of, have lost the lending money

even they had done jumnong จำนอง with the land office?

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, Aarin said:

No come on now. No matter how safe and secure you have it to get repaid.. they will beat you every time. Be prepared to say goodbye to that 2 million and that I can guarantee you... 

Have you seen his first post and his answers on this topic?

He has already taken the decision to give the money

now he is trying to secure it

 

Of course at the end it will be not the happy ending that he is hoping

(Like in most of this cases motivated in the whole process by his own greed, being in high interests rate like a vulgar shark loan dealer or becoming the owner of a land which worths X10 the valor of the loan using the desperation of the actual owner and her dramatic economical situation)

 

But of course you can not stop it, it's seems an endless move in this country, and maybe he deserves what it going to happens.

 

The main hobby of everyone in Thailand seems to be to figure out how to milk money from someone else, from another thai or a farang doesn't really matter, it's a national sport

Edited April 30, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[Brick Top]

I had a similar experience but for a lot more money , I lent a Thai lady 27 million on her golf course. The interest rate was 2% per month ( I know the legal limit is 15%) she wanted the loan for 3 months but I wanted to do the loan for a minimum off 1 year. Everything was done through my lawyer who took her chanote into custody with her signing a POA so my lawyer could sell the golf course in case of default.

In the end the loan went on for 2 years and loan payments stopped after about 4 months. 

It did end well and she sold the golf course and I was payed back the full 27 million , but they discounted the interest owed to 18% instead off the agreed 24%.

Two Million is not much . I lost 2.5 Million in another business investment with a Thai man , he ended up going to jail for 8 years as he swindled me , would I get involved with a Thai again, definitely No. It's better to put your money in bona fide mutual funds or an S&P ETF tracker fund.

[poohy]

Don't!

[SLG]

From my experience if I was you I would be prepared to wait a LONG time to get your money back and to possibly loose your money if you make the loan.  I lent money to a close personal very HiSo Thai friend (a man) and former business partner (before I retired).  The money was to be paid back in three months.   Three months were long past before even an installment was paid.  He paid two "installments" (of five) during 2019 and then COVID came along and he needed to get one of the installments back to keep his company afloat.  I got another "installment" last summer when I told him about a health problem I needed to get treated and was short of Baht in Thailand to pay for it.  After more than two years on what was to be a three month loan I am still waiting for 60% of my money.  The problem he has is similar to your lady friend i.e. he has a lot of real estate assets, which probably all have loans against them now, but too little cash flow for his lifestyle.

[dlclark97]

6 hours ago, RobMuir said:

They have a buyer (but no deposit paid yet) for the bigger resort. That has loans against it.

Expected to settle in 3 months. But being Thailand it will probably take longer as everything does.

 

Banks want her to lend for a minimum of 3 years. She doesn't want it or need it. I am charging her the maximum legal interest rate plus a bonus. Win win.

 

The smaller resort already has 800;000 jumnong against it. She will use the 2 million to pay that off, a couple of other smaller personal debts and survive on the rest until the big sale comes through.

 

She also has other land she has jumnonged.

 

Obviously been hit hard by the tourist covid situation.

 

I will only lend it against a clean land title on the smaller resort at the land office. And I believe if I jumnong her I have to go to court to take her resort, whereas if I kaifaag it I simply just kick her out and can legally sell it straight away. That actually is my main question here.

 

Perhaps a company can own it.  Needs more research.  You can not own it even for a short time and the intent to resell it.  And, you would have to find a willing and able buyer.  My advice - RUN FOREST RUN!

[roo860]

6 hours ago, Johnny Mac said:

What a vile, incencitive post. At a time when many can't even pay their bills and put food on the table for their kids you decide to come on here and tell a bunch of strangers you have a load of dough to chuck around. They say you can't buy class, and you don't have any old bean. I hope you lend it to her and don't get t back.

Are you on any sort of medication?

[hotchilli]

The problem is she's maxed out with the bank, so if she goes under they will repossess the properties... you will get nothing.

Land cannot be transferred to you as a foreigner, property will be the banks.

I would back away and keep your 2M

 

[kevin612]

Expect to lose 2 millions if you do so.

[NotYourBusiness]

Don't enter into any transaction where you would need to GO TO COURT if she doesn't pay. The English strategy you want is "Sale with the right of redemption". It means she sells the land to you already, it's a done deal, it belongs to you, and the sale is canceled if she meets the terms of the contract.

 

This way, you don't need to go to court if she doesn't pay. The land is already yours. SHE needs to take you to court if you don't transfer it back as agreed after the conditions are met. And as stated above, you cannot own the land as a foreigner. I am not a lawyer.

Edited April 30, 2021 by NotYourBusiness

[hotchilli]

7 hours ago, RobMuir said:

Yes, good point.

 

Will be in my trusted Thai business partners name. We have a company together (he funded his share, not just a nominee). We might even put it through the company.

 

I was hoping to get some real life info from someone experienced with that also.

So go ask your trusted Thai business partner.

[kingstonkid]

7 hours ago, RobMuir said:

Yes, good point.

 

Will be in my trusted Thai business partners name. We have a company together (he funded his share, not just a nominee). We might even put it through the company.

 

I was hoping to get some real life info from someone experienced with that also.

If you have a business then you probably have a lawyer.  That's the person you should be talking to.  Most of us here have learned the hard way not to loan money to anyone Thai or farang.

 

 

[Johnny Mac]

11 minutes ago, roo860 said:

Are you on any sort of medication?

 

Been stuck here for 21 years, lost my mind and any sense of realism years back, fella. That said, I stand by what I say. if you don't think this thread lacks class in these harsh times, then let's agree to disagree.

 

I'm going out for a beer and a natter at 5.30 with a few of the local (s)expats. what are you doing tonight?

[RobMuir]

1 hour ago, TheFishman1 said:

Should I give her the loan if you don’t mind losing all of your money she may have all her land mortgage to the hill If I were you I would just say no run Forrest run

Which would be on the back of the chanote

[1FinickyOne]

8 hours ago, RobMuir said:

Her cash flow has been devasted by covid. Lending against her bigger resort isn't an option as a bank already has that mortgaged.

sorry to go off subject a bit - but the bank will get paid first... look at the things a bank would look at for a traditional loan.. what is her income... if you are doing it solely based on the value of the land if it needs to be sold - - make sure you know if there are other loans out on the property...

 

sounds like you are doing this for profit motive which is fine, but I would see too many 'what ifs' and 'unknowns' to make it worthwhile unless the risk is being highly rewarded... venture risk capital should command a high % return... 

 

These types of loan deals have been offered to me many times in the past and I was always glad I declined... 

[1FinickyOne]

10 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Most of us here have learned the hard way not to loan money to anyone Thai or farang.

not just here... 

[1FinickyOne]

20 minutes ago, NotYourBusiness said:

Don't enter into any transaction where you would need to GO TO COURT if she doesn't pay. The English strategy you want is "Sale with the right of redemption". It means she sells the land to you already, it's a done deal, it belongs to you, and the sale is canceled if she meets the terms of the contract.

 

This way, you don't need to go to court if she doesn't pay. The land is already yours. SHE needs to take you to court if you don't transfer it back as agreed after the conditions are met. And as stated above, you cannot own the land as a foreigner. I am not a lawyer.

excellent advice - - better than a lawyer!! 

[RobMuir]

6 hours ago, Johnny Mac said:

What a vile, incencitive post. At a time when many can't even pay their bills and put food on the table for their kids you decide to come on here and tell a bunch of strangers you have a load of dough to chuck around. They say you can't buy class, and you don't have any old bean. I hope you lend it to her and don't get t back.

I would just like to point out that she asked me.

And that she is asset rich, very rich, and cash poor.

And soon she will be cash rich and asset rich when her larger resort is sold.

And she herself has lent money to others jumrong and kaifaag to others previously.

I wish you all the best sir, thankyou for your kind words.