Lending money to a Thai

[Bammie]

Anytime I lend a friend or family member money I always look at it as a gift that will never be repaid.  This way, you will not be disappointed when they do not repay you.  Most times they do not pay you back but sometimes they may surprise you.

even with the collateral, I would think if she goes bankrupt and loses everything it will take years and alot of money on legal fees to litigate your way through the process of getting your money back.   I am from USA, not Thailand so i do not know how it works but lending money is always a dicey proposition and I wish you luck !

[unblocktheplanet]

11 hours ago, Tagged said:

Jumnong is when you get to keep the paper of the land until she pays, kaifaak is when land paper is transfered to you, but she can buy back.

And if you don't have Thai citizenship, land cannot be transferred into your name. If you have a registered company, it's possible to put the chanote into the company's name. I'd steer clear unless you have 2mil you're not really going to miss much.

[ifmu]

dont do it .. no legal way to recover money ..  this is thailand .. i assume u are farang ..

[Ian3005]

11 hours ago, Tagged said:

Jumnong is when you get to keep the paper of the land until she pays, kaifaak is when land paper is transfered to you, but she can buy back. Thats what my gf says. 

 

What kind of land title she have. 

 

 

From what I gather it doesn't matter who holds the title deeds.

They can claim the deeds have been misplaced and get another set and sell anyway.

 

Does Kaifaak apply to Foreigners?

My understanding is that foreigners cannot own land. Only a 30 year lease which I'm trying to find details on to prevent me from being screwed over

 

[Tagged]

4 minutes ago, Ian3005 said:

From what I gather it doesn't matter who holds the title deeds.

They can claim the deeds have been misplaced and get another set and sell anyway.

 

Does Kaifaak apply to Foreigners?

My understanding is that foreigners cannot own land. Only a 30 year lease which I'm trying to find details on to prevent me from being screwed over

 

If someone wants to screw you over, you have a small chance to avoid it when the money is placed. And if the chance is even fair, it can takes years to get settlement as we all have heard. I just say good luck and hope he keeps us updated how it goes. 

 

Even lease have its faults I have heard.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Tagged

[Ian3005]

10 hours ago, RobMuir said:

I will be seeking legal advice, was hoping to get a heads up here.

 

Thankyou

Advice I got from a Lawyer (Thai living in Australia) is to avoid Thai lawyers as a farag as they will screw you over.

I know that there is a good chance that you will never see the loan repaid.

My ex Thai wife lent money to various people, Thai's, and she was battling to get the loans repaid.

In the mean time the people that borrowed the money were living the high life and continually in debt, borrowing money from all in sundry.

My grandfather drilled into us from an early age.... "Neither a borrower or a lender be".

[Ian3005]

11 hours ago, RobMuir said:

Yes, good point.

 

Will be in my trusted Thai business partners name. We have a company together (he funded his share, not just a nominee). We might even put it through the company.

 

I was hoping to get some real life info from someone experienced with that also.

As the Thai lawyer I spoke to said.... remember that you are a Farang and with the Thais they stick togetehr and blood is thicker than water.

As soon as they see a Farage they star salivating...... In the past I always had my ex wife talk to whoever we were getting work done by Thais as the price was the "Thai price". Had they seen me the price would have been 50-70% higher

[BritManToo]

Just now, Ian3005 said:

In the past I always had my ex wife talk to whoever we were getting work done by Thais as the price was the "Thai price". Had they seen me the price would have been 50-70% higher

My pals Thai wife used to get everyone to double charge him.

"He's stupid", she would say, "Charge him double and we'll split the extra"

 

When I was trying to buy my own dear wife a house she said to the agent showing us around, "Charge 500,000bht extra and we'll have 250k each". I went into the development office and got a fixed price list for every plot, "Why does the office want so much less?" I asked them.

 

Your Thai wife is generally the least trustworthy of all Thais.

Best to learn some Thai so you can get a hint of what she's really saying to everyone.

Edited April 30, 2021 by BritManToo

[Ian3005]

2 hours ago, IraqRon said:

I have a farange friend whom lost a lot of money by the Jumrong scheme.  The woman just went to her local land office and got a duplicate chanote and sold the house and land which was resold further on before he found out.  He spent lots of money and court time and got a finding against her, but of course she was unable to pay and he got nothing.

Seems she had a local reputation for swindeling farangs in this manner.

Even wonder why there are no title insurance companies in Thailand????

That is it in a nutshell.

A Farang is seen as an ATM. When the ATM runs out of cash they change banks (Farang).

[Sheryl]

27 minutes ago, Ian3005 said:

From what I gather it doesn't matter who holds the title deeds.

They can claim the deeds have been misplaced and get another set and sell anyway.

 

Does Kaifaak apply to Foreigners?

My understanding is that foreigners cannot own land. Only a 30 year lease which I'm trying to find details on to prevent me from being screwed over

 

 

Indeed foreigners cannot own land, it appears OP's plan is to have the land transferred to a Thai business partner whom he trusts. Thsi of course means he is now reliant oin trust in 2 people: the woman he loans the money too and his partner.

 

30 year lease can be given but all it does is give you the right to live on or otherwise use the land. It does not enable you to sell the land so you still have no way of getting your money back. And even if you want to live on the land, in practice doing so if the landowner is hostile would be very difficult/unpleasant. All sorts of ways they could make life difficult.

 

 

 

 

[Raphael Hythlodaeus]

Suggest you tell her that the legal issues are unclear, particularly as you are a foreigner and cannot own land, and so you must take legal advice which she has to pay for upfront, whether or not the loan goes ahead. I expect she will then run away fast.

[Nojohndoe]

Quite  early on in an answer to his topic the OP made reference to an "if" outcome per sale of asset.

Step back, step away  .

If the asset subject of the required loan was a singular item then perhaps a calculation of risk might be an acceptable  but with multiple assets exposed to debt already which in longer event  may cause a call on other assets for recall if viabilty to do so exists......stay away !

 

 

[ericthai]

12 hours ago, RobMuir said:

Yes, good point.

 

Will be in my trusted Thai business partners name. We have a company together (he funded his share, not just a nominee). We might even put it through the company.

 

I was hoping to get some real life info from someone experienced with that also.

Talk to your Trusted Thai partner. He is Thai so should be able to investigate which is best legal option for your company.

asking here well....

 

[connda]

13 hours ago, RobMuir said:

I am going to lend 2 million baht to a Thai I know.

 

You need to have your head examined.  Don't show up a year from now whinging about your lost 2 million THB.  ????  We'll all collectively laugh at you as you'll deserve the ridicule.  And we'll know you'll never do something that stupid again. 

 

[connda]

13 hours ago, Tagged said:

When she already have values for 80 million, why she need a private loan from you? 

 

Most likely she have already past her limits with the banks, family and other possibillities.

 

 

He expects to obtain a lien on the land that they bank already has a lien against. 

"Fools and their money are soon parted."

[connda]

13 hours ago, Poet said:

As clearly as I can explain it:

Jumnong จำนอง - You will lose 2 million baht.

Kaifaak ขายฟาก - You will lose 2 million baht.
 

The more efficient and likely procedure would be for a member of her family, or the boyfriend she told you she doesn't have, to remove you from this mortal coil.
 

You understand Thailand much better than the Op.  Exactly!

"Let no good deed go unpunished!"  <laughs>

[VBF]

1 hour ago, Ian3005 said:

As the Thai lawyer I spoke to said.... remember that you are a Farang and with the Thais they stick togetehr and blood is thicker than water.

As soon as they see a Farage they star salivating...... In the past I always had my ex wife talk to whoever we were getting work done by Thais as the price was the "Thai price". Had they seen me the price would have been 50-70% higher

Funny.....As soon as I see a Farage  I start nauseating......  ????

Spill chickers are winderful thongs, aren't they? 

[Ian3005]

7 minutes ago, VBF said:

Funny.....As soon as I see a Farage  I start nauseating......  ????

Spill chickers are winderful thongs, aren't they? 

[NCC1701A]

my friend May called me up and asked me for 1,500 baht. i transferred it to her.

 

after three years of friendship that was the last time i heard from her. 

 

i am still disappointed but i guess not really surprised. 

 

what's your friends name?

 

 

[Ian3005]

Beats me why Thais are always in debt.... up to their eyebrows some of them.

Breeds animosity. 

[BenDeCosta]

It doesn't matter how well you think you know the person. If not getting the money back will cause you a problem then don't lend it because this is what will most likely happen. If you're rich enough just gift the money, if not then tell her to go and borrow from a bank.  

[Ian3005]

2 hours ago, damen said:

You can borrow her at your comfortable amount, however you must have a mindset that he/she may not return you back. 
 

In my own experience, you can do a legal iou and been certified by officials such as some police from the station or lawyers. 
 

and Maximum Interest is 15% per year. Interestshall not exceed 15% per year; when a higher rate of interest is fixed by the contract, it shall be reduced to 15% per year.

 

this is the legal rate in Thailand. He/she could report you to police if the interest deem too much.

 

And remember to have a witness, video cam as a prove.  

Damen.... if you are a Farang it doesn't matter what documents you have. Farangs have no say or rights.

[BenDeCosta]

Rich westerner goes to a third world country and loans a huge amount to a local. What could possibly go wrong? You know what they say about a fool and their money.

[Ian3005]

Just now, BenDeCosta said:

It doesn't matter how well you think you know the person. If not getting the money back will cause you a problem then don't lend it because this is what will most likely happen. If you're rich enough just gift the money, if not then tell her to go and borrow from a bank.  

As my grandfather drilled into us "Neither a borrower or a lender be"

[BenDeCosta]

25 minutes ago, Ian3005 said:

As my grandfather drilled into us "Neither a borrower or a lender be"

 

Very wise words. Especially in Thailand, lending and borrowing almost always ends up causing a problem.

 

The attitude is "he's a rich foreigner, so if I don't pay him back, it won't matter".

 

Therefore you should view loans as basically gifts, and if you ever get the money back (unlikely), then you should see it as a bonus. 

 

2 million is a hefty sum for me, I wouldn't lend it to anyone, anywhere, except maybe to a trusted family member who needed it for life-saving medical treatment.

 

I've loaned money to Thais three times, never got a single baht back. I won't ever do it again.

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by BenDeCosta

[Aussiepeter]

Thanks to those who liked my response & how I was a victim of an 'innocent Thai lady' on a loan. To the chap who posted this topic - you need to remember that you are NOT at 'home' and so 'local rules apply'. It took me 30 years to learn that & I speak Thai fluently - all three dialects. I can also read Thai. Just before I left LOS I met an Aussie jailed for dealing drugs - he was supposedly still 'in jail'  but, I met him in a very well known girly-bar on a Sunday evening ! Seems his Thai missus was selling 'ya-ba' but, he knew nothing about it. He did however have big $ and, had a good Thai lawyer (ha ha). Obviously, the Judge was 'fair' as he got only one year. His wife with no lawyer, got fifteen years ! When I asked him when he 'got out', he said, "in another eight months". Welcome to LOS. He had  'arranged' ($) to be let out of prison every Sunday night at 2000 hours for "a <deleted>, a few beers and a western meal" ! He had to return to the back door of C Mai jail at midnight, or turn into a pumpkin. Fact. Money talks in Thailand - so to the Op, - if you don't know that - you WILL get shafted & you WILL lose your money, but it is your 2 mil baht. Lastly, shortly after I "repaired some Thai blokes' car" for 12K baht, I got clever & married a not unattractive but very virginal 28 yo locksmith - I was 49. That was 20 years ago. We now live in Australia & will never live in LOS ever again - our 11 y.o. daughter only speaks English. After 8 years back here, my Thai wife is an Aussie citizen & says she will never go back but, I am allowed to return to LOS every two years, as I support her mum. Pretty good deal, really.

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

my friend May called me up and asked me for 1,500 baht. i transferred it to her.

 

after three years of friendship that was the last time i heard from her. 

 

i am still disappointed but i guess not really surprised. 

 

what's your friends name?

 

 

฿1500 is a cheap price to find out someone’s true nature.

 

Money well spent.

[Pravda]

5 minutes ago, Airalee said:

฿1500 is a cheap price to find out someone’s true nature.

 

Money well spent.

 

It's NCC. Probably 1500x1500

 

 

[kwak250]

The real question is .

Is she fit?

[BenDeCosta]

18 minutes ago, Airalee said:

฿1500 is a cheap price to find out someone’s true nature.

 

Money well spent.

 

Agree 100% with this sentiment. For the low price of $48 you have found out that your friend is a complete scumbag.