Covid-19: What’s the Endgame?

BritManToo · May 7, 2021

Just now, jak2002003 said:

What is this fear and hate that some people have against people that don't want to be vaccinated against Covid?

It's like they are really insecure and wetting their pants, so scared of the virus they are in a panic to wipe it out.

Or is it just them being bullies, wanting to force people to do what they want or else turn them into people to be discriminated against?

If you have the vaccine you are safe. So, why care about someone that chooses not to have it?

It's not as if any of us foreigners in Thailand could be vaccinated even if we wanted it.

covidiot · May 7, 2021

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I don't give a flying one

your situation is different than mine.

i might do the same if i was in your situation.

you're way smarter than i am for being able to retire at 45.

DerbyDan · May 7, 2021

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

What is this fear and hate that some people have against people that don't want to be vaccinated against Covid?

It's like they are really insecure and wetting their pants, so scared of the virus they are in a panic to wipe it out.

Or is it just them being bullies, wanting to force people to do what they want or else turn them into people to be discriminated against?

If you have the vaccine you are safe. So, why care about someone that chooses not to have it?

I actually don't mind after everyone who desires a vaccine is safe. Were not there yet.

Until that happens though you need to wear a mask in public.

jak2002003 · May 7, 2021

59 minutes ago, DerbyDan said:

I actually don't mind after everyone who desires a vaccine is safe. Were not there yet.

Until that happens though you need to wear a mask in public.

Of course. Totally agree. Even if people might believe they don't work, it is no bother to wear one, and it is the polite thing to do.

I have a feeling many people dont wear one properly, or at all, in conspicuous public places as they get a thrill out of knowing they are upsetting people.

cdemundo · May 7, 2021

5 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

What is this fear and hate that some people have against people that don't want to be vaccinated against Covid?

It's like they are really insecure and wetting their pants, so scared of the virus they are in a panic to wipe it out.

Or is it just them being bullies, wanting to force people to do what they want or else turn them into people to be discriminated against?

If you have the vaccine you are safe. So, why care about someone that chooses not to have it?

No one cares if you get the vax or not.

What gets responses is posting misinformation/disinformation.

Start a thread that just says "I don't plan to get vaccinated" and nothing else and see how controversial it is.

cdnvic · May 7, 2021

5 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

What is this fear and hate that some people have against people that don't want to be vaccinated against Covid?

It's like they are really insecure and wetting their pants, so scared of the virus they are in a panic to wipe it out.

Or is it just them being bullies, wanting to force people to do what they want or else turn them into people to be discriminated against?

If you have the vaccine you are safe. So, why care about someone that chooses not to have it?

It's because there are many people with compromised immune systems and they are unable to be vaccinated because their bodies have too strong of an immune response to the vaccine. This can include cancer patients, people with autoimmune diseases, and those with an allergy to a vaccine ingredient. These people depend on the surrounding population limiting their exposure by limiting the virus's ability to circulate.

It's these people that require herd immunity to be protected. Choosing to be vaccinated or not isn't all about you. It affects others.

richard_smith237 · May 7, 2021

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I don't give a flying one about any other family.

It is this attitude which some disagree with.

If a member of your family were in a high risk group your tune would be different and you would hope others are considerate enough not

5 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

What is this fear and hate that some people have against people that don't want to be vaccinated against Covid?

It's not fear of you. But you need to be educated of your selfishness. No one cares if you catch Covid-19 and get sick or die, but people do get upset that you are not intelligent enough to recognise that its not about you, its about the society and people around you.

5 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

It's like they are really insecure and wetting their pants, so scared of the virus they are in a panic to wipe it out.

Not scared for ourselves, I’m not worried about Covid at all. I don’t know many in a high risk group (older or with Asthma etc) who won’t be vaccinated. But, there are people out there in high risk groups unable to take the vaccine.

IF there is an sufficient number of selfish people who don’t want to take the vaccine, those in the high risk groups who can’t take the vaccine will not be protected by herd immunity. Covid will continue to sweep through society, and while many who don’t take the vaccine won’t need it, they will still be mildly symptomatic and can pass on the virus to others more readily than had they taken the vaccine.

5 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Or is it just them being bullies, wanting to force people to do what they want or else turn them into people to be discriminated against?

You are also forced to drive within the speed limit, pay your taxes and behave within certain limits.

This isn’t about discrimination, taking a vaccine is about looking after those unable to look after themselves.

5 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

If you have the vaccine you are safe. So, why care about someone that chooses not to have it?

IF you don’t want to take a vaccine no one will care about you, but you live in a society where people care about those at risk.

richard_smith237 · May 7, 2021

15 minutes ago, cdnvic said:

It's because there are many people with compromised immune systems and they are unable to be vaccinated because their bodies have too strong of an immune response to the vaccine. This can include cancer patients, people with autoimmune diseases, and those with an allergy to a vaccine ingredient. These people depend on the surrounding population limiting their exposure by limiting the virus's ability to circulate.

It's these people that require herd immunity to be protected. Choosing to be vaccinated or not isn't all about you. It affects others.

Well said - I don’t get how people can be so stupid to think this is only about them.

These same idiots refusing vaccines do not realise a lot of them wouldn’t be here without them !

It seems that all some want to do is ‘fight the machine’ and 'stand up to authority’ when this is not the time to protest.

In taking the vaccine a community protest those who can’t - it does seem so many lack the basic intelligence to grasp this simple concept.

Reading the words in these threads is like listening to the idiots who call themselves ‘First Amendment Auditors’ !!!

The laughable idiots who go out of their way filming police stations etc to deliberately get into a confrontation with an officer because its their right to be antagonistic !!!! - It is the same characters and mentality who are Anti-Vax.... or at least Anti-Covid Vaccine.... those who have a distrust of any authority and think everything is a conspiracy against them...

We do need people to take on the ‘big guys’ - but this isn’t that fight. This is just protecting those who cannot be protected.

richard_smith237 · May 7, 2021

Those who don’t want to take a vaccine should be forced to live away from populated areas.

Make a town for anti-vaxxers !!! - Imagine that nightmare when they realise everyone else is a nutter !!! - then, the brilliant conspiracies to ‘rid the world’ of anti-vaxxers because the all succumb to a curable disease they had refused to get vaccinated for !!!

richard_smith237 · May 7, 2021

On 5/2/2021 at 6:33 AM, Danderman123 said:

Although the cycles of lockdowns and re-openings seem to go on forever, with vaccinations increasing, at some point, a large percent of the population will be vaccinated, and the situation will change. We already seeing infections in Israel shrink from 5,000 a day to 100, after their vaccination campaign.

So, what happens when 80% of the population is inoculated?

There will always be dead Enders who refuse vaccination. Unless the government imposes harsh penalties on refuseniks, the virus will continue to spread, albeit in small pockets. We may have a situation where life returns to normal, but is interrupted regionally with these localized outbreaks among the unvaccinated. In the US, where people refuse vaccines for political reasons, there may be a demographic shift, where older white people are significantly reduced in numbers by the virus, on a regional level. Similarly, in Thailand, some older Farangs may disappear, due to exposure to the virus.

Texting requirements for transit between countries may continue, but testing systems should be faster and cheaper.

Ultimately, society may treat Covid as it does measles today.

Or, the virus may mutate into a less lethal variant, like the flu.

End Game: Contain.... Treat Covid as society treats influenza.

The virus will continue to spread, but to a far lesser degree and more slowly. The mutations will be fewer and easer to project and protect against with vaccines.

Vaccines will improve, we will probably need boosters, perhaps every year or every few years.

Will Covid-19 RT PCR tests continue to be important ? IF most people are not symptomatic and have been vaccinated, what does it matter if they test positive for Covid-19 ??? its just a cold by then right?.... For us anyway, I still think it will be important to track the virus and various outbreaks so that those at risk can be better protected.

There will be more outbreaks where people have refused to vaccinate and people at risk will die as a result because the vaccines are not 100% effective (at the moment anyway).

Those with compromised immune systems will have one more thing to worry about, well, two actually, another virus (Covid) and the idiots who increase the risk of spreading it when the refuse a vaccine.

meechai · May 7, 2021

28 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Those who don’t want to take a vaccine should be forced to live away from populated areas.

I may have heard something more ignorant than this in my life... but I cannot remember when

Edited May 7, 2021 by meechai

Danderman123 · May 7, 2021

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

We all had COVID in January 2020. (me, women, 2 kids).

I don't give a flying one about any other family.

Nah, you didn’t. You had the flu.

At your age, you have a high probability of getting seriously impacted by the virus. Let’s hope that everyone you know gets vaccinated.

DerbyDan · May 8, 2021

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Those who don’t want to take a vaccine should be forced to live away from populated areas.

Make a town for anti-vaxxers !!! - Imagine that nightmare when they realise everyone else is a nutter !!! - then, the brilliant conspiracies to ‘rid the world’ of anti-vaxxers because the all succumb to a curable disease they had refused to get vaccinated for !!!

The weird thing about this statement is it's pretty true right now, at least in the USA.

Anti-Vaxxers are mostly rural folk and isolationist types. Most are into guns, freedom and country. Real patriotic types, American flags mounted on their cars. We call them "hicks" in America. They all stick together and don't like outsiders. In extreme cases they breed inter family, have genetic disorders, etc.

I won't write a book here, but their self-esteem is low due to poverty and lack of education so they lash out at any type of government control. They are also dangerous, when riding through the backcountry you got to be careful if you are at all different, liberal etc.

I think every country has a sub group like this, the names vary.

So most of the anti-vaxxers would spread it among themselves, but I agree if there are people who can't take the vaccine for whatever reason, they are tax paying citizens and need to be protected through herd immunity.

If there are backwater types that still refuse I think many of the regulations will keep them away, for example you will need the vaccine proof to fly, or for many service jobs with public contact, school enrollment and such that will put extreme pressure on outliers to comply. If not, not much more you can do, can't force them, but those will be far enough out of society to matter much.

Edited May 8, 2021 by DerbyDan

meechai · May 8, 2021

26 minutes ago, DerbyDan said:

The weird thing about this statement is it's pretty true right now, at least in the USA.

Anti-Vaxxers are mostly rural folk and isolationist types

Total BS like your profile.....member since Feb 2nd & 280 posts.....yeah right more like a campaign

plonk in the troll lake you go

Quote

Forty-four percent of the U.S. population has received at least one shot and 31% is fully vaccinated, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Folks like you will likely be the isolationist holed up in your safe room with your Spam & TP

While the rest get on with life not so afraid of a virus that is 95.x% + survivable by most

Quote

European estimates (i.e. estimates in countries with similar age profiles and healthcare quality as the UK) put the fatality rate at somewhere between 0.5% and 1%, meaning the “survival rate” could be somewhere between 99% and 99.5%, but not as high as 99.8%.

https://fullfact.org/online/covid-19-survival-rate-less-998/

Edited May 8, 2021 by meechai

BritManToo · May 8, 2021

5 hours ago, cdnvic said:

It's these people that require herd immunity to be protected. Choosing to be vaccinated or not isn't all about you. It affects others.

Those 'nearly dead' people should remove themselves from society and isolate themselves.

It's the height of selfishness for them to expect everyone else to cater to their needs.

BritManToo · May 8, 2021

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

At your age, you have a high probability of getting seriously impacted by the virus.

I welcome death when it comes.

jak2002003 · May 8, 2021

7 hours ago, cdnvic said:

It's because there are many people with compromised immune systems and they are unable to be vaccinated because their bodies have too strong of an immune response to the vaccine. This can include cancer patients, people with autoimmune diseases, and those with an allergy to a vaccine ingredient. These people depend on the surrounding population limiting their exposure by limiting the virus's ability to circulate.

It's these people that require herd immunity to be protected. Choosing to be vaccinated or not isn't all about you. It affects others.

If that is the case, then these vulnerable people who dont get vaccinated are equally as likely to get the virus and spread it to other unvaccinated people.

They need to take all the necessary precautions. If they caught any other viral disease they would also be badly affected.

jak2002003 · May 8, 2021

7 hours ago, cdemundo said:

No one cares if you get the vax or not.

What gets responses is posting misinformation/disinformation.

Start a thread that just says "I don't plan to get vaccinated" and nothing else and see how controversial it is.

I think that it would end up controversial and with people getting into dumb arguments, as that seems to happen to nearly any thread about any topic on Thai Visa. ????

Danderman123 · May 8, 2021

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Those 'nearly dead' people should remove themselves from society and isolate themselves.

It's the height of selfishness for them to expect everyone else to cater to their needs.

In other words, you're a herd immunity guy. Quarantine the sick and the old, and the remaining people will mostly survive. Maybe only a few million dead in Thailand if they let the virus range free, like in India.

The problem is that mass infections will lead to virus mutation, and maybe the new variant will seek out old British guys. Or young healthy people. And definitely reinfect people.

friendofthai · May 8, 2021

Don't forget that the origin of the virus is yet to be determined (according to WHO). It could be everything. And it also could be a laboratory that could develop new virus modifications more quickly than you create vaccines.
So the USA must allow international observers to its military bio-labs. This is what the leader of Russian parliament, Mr. Volodin has said recently.

Edited May 8, 2021 by friendofthai

jak2002003 · May 8, 2021

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

It is this attitude which some disagree with.

If a member of your family were in a high risk group your tune would be different and you would hope others are considerate enough not

It's not fear of you. But you need to be educated of your selfishness. No one cares if you catch Covid-19 and get sick or die, but people do get upset that you are not intelligent enough to recognise that its not about you, its about the society and people around you.

Not scared for ourselves, I’m not worried about Covid at all. I don’t know many in a high risk group (older or with Asthma etc) who won’t be vaccinated. But, there are people out there in high risk groups unable to take the vaccine.

IF there is an sufficient number of selfish people who don’t want to take the vaccine, those in the high risk groups who can’t take the vaccine will not be protected by herd immunity. Covid will continue to sweep through society, and while many who don’t take the vaccine won’t need it, they will still be mildly symptomatic and can pass on the virus to others more readily than had they taken the vaccine.

You are also forced to drive within the speed limit, pay your taxes and behave within certain limits.

This isn’t about discrimination, taking a vaccine is about looking after those unable to look after themselves.

IF you don’t want to take a vaccine no one will care about you, but you live in a society where people care about those at risk.

Goodness me, you are a regular saint.

If one of my family were in the vulnerable group I would make sure all precautions were in place to protect them. Not be lazy and rely on strangers and the rest of the population to get vaccinated.

We need to be 'educated of our selfishness' do we? How about you be educated to your patronising-ness?

You are arrogant to say that people who choose not to vaccinate with this Covid jab are lacking in intelligence just because they have a different opinion to you.

Of course you are falling back on the bullying tactics , calling people dumb, selfish and uncaring for not doing as you want.

Also, if you can't see the difference between traffic regulation / paying taxes and forcing people to be injected with dodgy vaccines against their will, then maybe you are the one lacking in intelligence.

Edited May 8, 2021 by jak2002003

jak2002003 · May 8, 2021

6 hours ago, meechai said:

I may have heard something more ignorant than this in my life... but I cannot remember when

Yes, I think he sounds like the kind of men who say to force all the gays, Jews, black people or single mothers to all go live on an island or shoot them. Now can any people who dont get a vaccine to the list of people to hate for no reason other than ignorance.

Edited May 8, 2021 by jak2002003

richard_smith237 · May 8, 2021

2 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

If that is the case, then these vulnerable people who dont get vaccinated are equally as likely to get the virus and spread it to other unvaccinated people.

The vulnerable who cannot get vaccinated are not as likely to get the virus when the community is vaccinated.

You are struggling to understand a basic concept.

2 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

They need to take all the necessary precautions. If they caught any other viral disease they would also be badly affected.

The spread of other readily transmissible viruses have been minimised through vaccine programs, thus protecting those at risk.

Those in high risk groups who are unable to take a vaccine are of course also have to ensure they are protected. Society can also play its roll by vaccinating.

DerbyDan · May 8, 2021

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Those in high risk groups who are unable to take a vaccine are of course also have to ensure they are protected.

Is it Ok if I get vaccinated?

richard_smith237 · May 8, 2021

2 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

9 hours ago, meechai said:

I may have heard something more ignorant than this in my life... but I cannot remember when

Yes, I think he sounds like the kind of men who say to force all the gays, Jews, black people or single mothers to all go live on an island or shoot them. Now can any people who dont get a vaccine to the list of people to hate for no reason other than ignorance.

One of the most idiotic hyperbolic responses on Thaivisa this week !!!

How can you possibly link any of the above groups to anti-vaxxers.... none in the above group place innocent people at risk through their own selfishness.

IF people wish to put other innocent people at risk, why should they be allowed to be part of society ???

Why should a innocent asthma sufferer who is allergic to vaccines be placed at additional risk because YOU don’t want to take a vaccine and increase the risk of spread of SARS-CoV-2 ?

richard_smith237 · May 8, 2021

3 minutes ago, DerbyDan said:

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Those in high risk groups who are unable to take a vaccine are of course also have to ensure they are protected.

Is it Ok if I get vaccinated?

Its ok (and preferable) that everyone gets vaccinated... so that the virus spreads less, encountered less antigenic drift, its path is more predicable and vaccines can evolve with the virus.... and ultimately so that those in high risk groups unable to vaccinate (i.e. because of allergies etc) are at far less risk of coming into contact with a carrier.

richard_smith237 · May 8, 2021

9 hours ago, meechai said:

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Those who don’t want to take a vaccine should be forced to live away from populated areas.

I may have heard something more ignorant than this in my life... but I cannot remember when

Edited 8 hours ago by meechai

Why should you be accepted in a society where you will openly put innocent others who are unable to take the vaccine at risk ???

I have no issues with people who do not wish to take the vaccine, so long as they do not contribute to the spread of viruses. This means they themselves should isolate from society so they don’t potentially expose innocent others from a virus they are unwittingly carrying.

richard_smith237 · May 8, 2021

2 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Goodness me, you are a regular saint.

Its clear you are the polar opposite - selfish.

2 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

If one of my family were in the vulnerable group I would make sure all precautions were in place to protect them. Not be lazy and rely on strangers and the rest of the population to get vaccinated.

You would be happy about forcing to isolate them because others are too selfish to vaccinate ?

2 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

We need to be 'educated of our selfishness' do we? How about you be educated to your patronising-ness?

If you find common sense patronising there is not much anyone can do to help you.

2 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

You are arrogant to say that people who choose not to vaccinate with this Covid jab are lacking in intelligence just because they have a different opinion to you.

Fair point: Anti-vaxxers often side-step the fact that their selfishness puts others at risk. IF they don’t understand that their selfishness is putting others at risk they are unintelligent. If they are intelligent and understand that their selfishness puts innocent others at risk they are extremely selfish.

2 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Of course you are falling back on the bullying tactics , calling people dumb, selfish and uncaring for not doing as you want.

I want you to take vaccine to protect the people I don’t know who are at risk from your action.

I would also ‘bully’ people into not drink driving to protect innocent other from the selfishness of the actions of people who don’t care about others.

Do I find people who refuse to take vaccines dumb, selfish and uncaring? absolutely, but not because they won’t do as I want, but because they are dumb, selfish and uncaring and refuse to protect others.

Ultimately, if the cap fits.....

2 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Also, if you can't see the difference between traffic regulation / paying taxes and forcing people to be injected with dodgy vaccines against their will, then maybe you are the one lacking in intelligence.

You’ve used the phrase ‘dodgy vaccines’.... Millions of people are taking the vaccines, complications are minima if at all related to the vaccines....

Your argument is already lost.... If you are intelligent and know that vaccines are effective in protecting society on a whole then you are selfish for not taking a vaccine and refusing to ‘play your part’.... If you think the vaccines are dodgy and dangerous to take then the only conclusion is to bring your intelligence into question.

richard_smith237 · May 8, 2021

It's clear this is going to turn into a ‘slanging match with selfish anti-vaxxers’.....

Without vaccination Covid-19 will continue to circulate through society, it will continue to evolve and mutate into more contagious and more harmful variants. Equally so it can also mutate and evolve into less harmful variants.

The fewer people who are vaccinated the greater the numbers of people who will require hospitalisation and suffer long term consequences of Covid-19, the more people will die necessarily.

Those who refuse to take the vaccine will hopefully be outnumbered significantly enough by those who recognise the community need to vaccinate such that the ‘critical mass’ of vaccinated individuals in a community results in the lack continued transmission of SARS-CoV-2... ultimately the selfish piggy-backing on those who took the vaccine.

Those who have not taken the vaccine should not have right to freely travel - I hope to see vaccine passports in place soon.

jak2002003 · May 8, 2021

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

One of the most idiotic hyperbolic responses on Thaivisa this week !!!

How can you possibly link any of the above groups to anti-vaxxers.... none in the above group place innocent people at risk through their own selfishness.

IF people wish to put other innocent people at risk, why should they be allowed to be part of society ???

Why should a innocent asthma sufferer who is allergic to vaccines be placed at additional risk because YOU don’t want to take a vaccine and increase the risk of spread of SARS-CoV-2 ?

Really? Some people say these kinds of people are a danger to society. They have poor morals, are selfish and will lead to the breakdown of families and society.

Interestingly just the kind of nastiness you are saying when you say anyone who does not get this vaccine is ill educated, stupid, selfish, and uncaring for other people and a danger to society in general.

You are struggling to understand the concept of democracy and freedom of choice for what people choose to do with their own bodies.

I am not anti vaccine, but people have the right to choose without being demonised.

So far people here have said anyone who does not have the vaccine should have their freedom to travel removed, be refused medical help, refused employment and access to public places, be rounded up and sent to an island, and belittling them with all sorts of insults. Nice people you are. So caring....not.

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