Are rabies shots necessary?

[Smithson]

My daughter was separating our dogs when they were fighting and she got bit. The dogs are up to date with all vaccinations, however the clinic is telling us to go to the hospital for rabies shots. Is this really necessary? Our local hospital can be pretty bad, besides waiting hours the service is quite poor, there's never a doctor there, seems they are all interns.

 

She may also need an x-ray, which would takes hours more. Do my daughter really need rabies shots?

[Crossy]

Read this and then decide https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/symptoms/index.html

 

Quote

Once clinical signs of rabies appear, the disease is nearly always fatal, 

 

With pets who don't mix outside the chances of them being infected are small, but ...

 

Personally I wouldn't hesitate, get the shots.

[scubascuba3]

If the dogs have had rabies vaccines then i thought there's no risk? that's the point of having them

 

[Smithson]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

If the dogs have had rabies vaccines then i thought there's no risk? that's the point of having them

 

Well yes, also that they don't die themselves.  Googling I found this:

 

Quote

Can Dogs Get Rabies If Vaccinated? If your dog has had a good quality vaccine, is kept up to date with their boosters, and enough time since the vaccination has passed to build up satisfactory immunity, then your dog will not catch rabies post-vaccination.

Crossy, I understand it's best to be on the safe side, but it's important to understand if there's a risk. In the past others copped a nip when separating the dogs and are still fine. Hospitals are somewhere I'd like to avoid at the moment. In our local one you wait hours sitting with sick people, then will have to come back for the shots again several times, each with a long wait.

 

We are looking for just a tetanus. Which I think will be enough.
 

[scubascuba3]

11 minutes ago, Smithson said:

Well yes, also that they don't die themselves.  Googling I found this:

 

Crossy, I understand it's best to be on the safe side, but it's important to understand if there's a risk. In the past others copped a nip when separating the dogs and are still fine. Hospitals are somewhere I'd like to avoid at the moment. In our local one you wait hours sitting with sick people, then will have to come back for the shots again several times, each with a long wait.

 

We are looking for just a tetanus. Which I think will be enough.
 

tetanus about 80 baht, Rabies 4,000 baht for me 2019

[Jillie Norman]

Just get the shots if you can, there's nothing to lose but you will be surely safe.

[2 is 1]

Your daughter! Why you need even ask! They not give all shots same time so need go other day also. 

[internationalism]

I had rabies at private hospital multiple times, around 300b. Need around 5 shots.

At the same time I was going for dressing wounds.

If the dogs are healthy within need future, you don't need full course. 

It will protect her for sometimes, maybe a year. So it's not completely wasted.

For 4k is a serum, at private can be around 16k (as some tourists reported after being bitten by monkeys).

Serum is given when very deep wound and close to head/neck area.

 

any vax is good now, will boost immune system against potential covid.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by internationalism

[LomSak27]

Probably not. 

 

However rabies is fatal once symptoms appear, and this is Thailand.  

[Smithson]

I've had the shots myself twice, it was around 3k from the local hospital, there is nothing private here. It's a long wait sitting around sick people and about five visits are required.

 

I understand it's important to err on the side of caution, but this also applies to hanging round public hospitals in these times. 

[Sheryl]

My personal opinion is: not  necessary if (1) you are sure the dogs are fully vaccinated and (2) you have full confidence in the Vet who provided the vaccine/quality of the vaccine, (3) the bites were not unprovoked and (4) the dogs in general are acting normally.

 

If you have any doubt on any of those points then better  get the shots.

 

Personally I have been bitten by vaccinated pets and not gotten other than tetanus shot and wound care. These were pets who had received rabies vaccine yearly for many years in a row from a very trusted source and the bites occurred in an understandable (from pet viewpoint) context.

[LosLobo]

SEA_CD_278_FAQs_Rabies.pdf (who.int)

 

"Q 14: Do you have to take vaccination against rabies if a vaccinated dog bites you?

 

No, not if the dog is properly vaccinated against rabies and the efficacy of the vaccine is confirmed by laboratory evidence. Otherwise an appropriate post-exposure prophylaxis (PEP) should be given."

 

To confirm the dogs vaccination by laboratory evidence, I would assume that it would be necessary to obtain the dogs rabies titer.

 

It would be easier to just get your daughter treated. She would then also be partly vaccinated for any future bites

 

She will require a tentanus shot, a rabies immunoglobin shot and a regime of rabies vaccine shots (4 or 5 depending on regime) over a month.

 

 

 

 

[Ragnarok]

No, you don’t have to go if the dogs have their shots.

[Smithson]

Thanks for the replies. I trust the vet and will call tomorrow to confirm they are up to date. The dogs were fighting and she got bitten trying to seperate them, around the thumb joint, it's quite sore. She does need to see a doctor though and possibly be x-rayed. The only decent clinic in town won't treat her, so we may end up at the hospital anyway. Thanks again.

[KeeTua]

3 hours ago, Smithson said:

Do my daughter really need rabies shots?

My daughter had to go through the shots on two different occasions and I always questioned that. On both occasions she was bitten by neighbors longtime pets that were easily observed for signs of rabies. The one very far fetched scenario I considered were the animals that bit her had just bitten a rabid animal and so may have some rabies virus in the saliva.

 

In Thailand the clinic/hospital won't bother to ask questions and probably figures why take the chance, just inject and be done with it and considering the vast number of dogs that never get their rabies shots here that makes sense.

 

The following is from the US CDC but food for thought. Keeping in mind that the US has a population of over 300 million and don't rush to do the injections for a bite victim:

>If you were bitten by a cat, dog, or ferret that appeared healthy at the time you were bitten, it can be confined by its owner for 10 days and observed. No anti-rabies prophylaxis is needed. No person in the United States has ever contracted rabies from a dog, cat or ferret held in quarantine for 10 days.<
https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/exposure/animals/domestic.html

 

I interpret that to indicate that if within 10 days there were signs of rabies in the quarantined animal there was still enough time to give the anti-rabies prophylaxis to the victim.

 

>Cases of human rabies cases in the United States are rare, with only 1 to 3 cases reported annually. Twenty-five cases of human rabies have been reported in the United States in the past decade (2009-2018). Seven of these infections were acquired outside of the U.S. and its territories.<
https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/location/usa/surveillance/human_rabies.html

 

Thailand also has pretty low odds of getting rabies and dog bites are very common. But then again maybe its because they give the injections here automatically:

>In recent years, Thailand’s rabies average annual mortality rate stands at around 10.<
https://www.pacificprime.co.th/blog/are-there-still-rabies-outbreaks-in-thailand/

[Smithson]

I've just come from the hospital, it's packed and chaotic. No 62 in line and it seemed the doctor hadn't arrived. No chance of social distancing with such crowds. Rather than wait 3 hours we left. Phoning clinics now and they are telling me a hospital visit is necessary even for a tetanus shot.

[Lacessit]

19 hours ago, Smithson said:

 

 

Crossy, I understand it's best to be on the safe side, but it's important to understand if there's a risk. In the past others copped a nip when separating the dogs and are still fine. Hospitals are somewhere I'd like to avoid at the moment. In our local one you wait hours sitting with sick people, then will have to come back for the shots again several times, each with a long wait.

 

We are looking for just a tetanus. Which I think will be enough.
 

The rabies virus attacks the brain. By the time symptoms appear, it is too late. Enough said.

[Smithson]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The rabies virus attacks the brain. By the time symptoms appear, it is too late. Enough said.

Medical professionals say the shots aren't necessary. Do you have medical qualifications? Covid kills also, the risk of catching that in a crowded hospital are much, much higher than getting rabies off our own vaccinated dog.

[internationalism]

go private emergency treatment, drive to another town.

in 5 minutes you will get 2 shots for 500b, plus dr consultation a few hundred bht

[Smithson]

31 minutes ago, internationalism said:

go private emergency treatment, drive to another town.

in 5 minutes you will get 2 shots for 500b, plus dr consultation a few hundred bht

This is what we're looking at now, I think it may have to be another province. None of the clinic's here will see her. They all open at 5, so none are answering yet.

[scubascuba3]

7 minutes ago, Smithson said:

This is what we're looking at now, I think it may have to be another province. None of the clinic's here will see her. They all open at 5, so none are answering yet.

Has she not had tetanus already? usually good for 10 years

[Sheryl]

You should be able to get tetanus shot and wound care at a government Health center and these are usually not at al crowded. Ask a Thai neighbor where the "suan anamai" is.

[Smithson]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

You should be able to get tetanus shot and wound care at a government Health center and these are usually not at al crowded. Ask a Thai neighbor where the "suan anamai" is.

Thanks Sheryl, I also wanted a doctor to look at it. We've come to a clinic in Prachinburi, they were adamant rabies shots are necessary, as dog vaccine doesn't protect people. At least it's not the crowded hospital. 

 

Years ago when I was bitten by the neighbors dog that was vaccinated the doctor made me sign a paper when I didn't want shots. Next time I was in getting the dressing changed the nurse told me I was crazy, so I decided to get the shots after all. The wound was deep.

[Sheryl]

41 minutes ago, Smithson said:

Thanks Sheryl, I also wanted a doctor to look at it. We've come to a clinic in Prachinburi, they were adamant rabies shots are necessary, as dog vaccine doesn't protect people. At least it's not the crowded hospital. 

 

Years ago when I was bitten by the neighbors dog that was vaccinated the doctor made me sign a paper when I didn't want shots. Next time I was in getting the dressing changed the nurse told me I was crazy, so I decided to get the shots after all. The wound was deep.

 

"dog vaccine doesn't protect people." makes no sense.

It protects people by preventing the dog from being rabid.

but no harm in being ultra-cautious and getting the shots.

[arick]

Anamai the local village clinics everywhere have the vaccine it the jabs and its free. 

[arick]

On 5/10/2021 at 6:04 PM, scubascuba3 said:

tetanus about 80 baht, Rabies 4,000 baht for me 2019

The vaccine is free at the local village clinics 

[clivebaxter]

16 hours ago, internationalism said:

go private emergency treatment, drive to another town.

in 5 minutes you will get 2 shots for 500b, plus dr consultation a few hundred bht

Free if Thai, mrs got bit before and it's classed as free emergency for the shots, she had to pay a couple of hundred for bandages

[rwill]

If the dogs are properly vaccinated in Thailand it should be ok.  I know in Thailand they vaccinate the dogs yearly.  In the US a booster is only required every 3 years.

When I first came to Thailand I asked my Vet if it was really necessary to get a booster every year.  She just said, "Much worse in Thailand"  So my dogs get a booster every year.

[Catoni]

This is why I got the three shot series Rabies pre-exposure shots before traveling in the world.  That way, if bit, my three pre-exposure Rabies shots would give me a bit more time to get to a hospital, and I would only need two further Rabies vaccine shots instead of four or five.  
    Also if you have had the three shot Rabies pre-exposure shots you don’t need the Human Rabies Immune Globulin, (HRIG) which can be very hard to find, and can cost a couple of thousand dollars in some places. 

[wandasloan]

19 hours ago, Smithson said:

Medical professionals say the shots aren't necessary. 

By any chance, are these highly qualified, credible medical professional experts and well-trained scientists the same people that advised the world about the coronavirus?

The answer for the daughter of the OP is that no one NEEDS anti-rabies shots so long as she has planned to die in extreme pain, screaming at the mere sight of water. And just for the information of the uninformed, ignorant OP, the sight of anyone dying of rabies is unbearable, even if she's not your daughter.

 

Why are you even asking the expert scientists and medical authorities of this forum? It's still not illegal to use your brain (yet). If you even need to ask such a question at TV, steel yourself for when your daughter is about, oh, 14 or 15 and slams your door for the very last time as she leaves you.