Pattaya A Dead or Dying City?

[Pilotman]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Every time I went it was packed with Russians, and I believe that the Russians have not yet returned.

They are too busy recovering from being poisoned by their government. 

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

They are the perfect places to create few public parks

unfortunately the city hall and the Thais seems to hate the trees

so i wouldn't be surprised if they do more parking for the cars instead

(That's exactly what they are going to do in Naklua, a car park at the place of the actual park)

That car park building at Bali Hi was built on the only park in down town Pattaya, and it had plenty of trees.

[redwood1]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Every time I went it was packed with Russians, and I believe that the Russians have not yet returned.

 

Yes but also they raised food prices A-LOT.....People just don't want Hi-so food in a food court......They killed the vibe of the place by dividing it up in sections....Its not even easy to get a bloody drink now and the selection sucks.....People have voted with their feet...

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, JensenZ said:

That's a very short-sighted assessment of the pre-covid era. When malls are built, they are looking to the future and growth of the tourism industry, not expecting it to fail. Do you think new mall developments should not compete with existing malls for market share? There are ups and downs in tourism industry, but they look long term. Your "too many malls" comment makes no sense either. Central Mall is the most successful of them, and that came AFTER Garden Plaza and Central Marina, both which predated it by many years. It came after and destroyed them. If most cities held your ideas, there would never be any advancement at all. Speculation is what makes the modern world tick. Competition is a good thing.

Had they stopped at Central it would have been fine. Pattaya can only accommodate so many potential customers, so till enough accommodation was built in down town Pattaya there were never going to be enough customers for all the malls.

 

I have no idea why some were not built in Jomptien, which I believe has none.

[kingofthemountain]

59 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Yes but also they raised food prices A-LOT.....People just don't want Hi-so food in a food court......They killed the vibe of the place by dividing it up in sections....Its not even easy to get a bloody drink now and the selection sucks.....People have voted with their feet...

imo they were thinking they couldn't fight against the big new and cheap food court in T21

 

So they decided to do something different and more ''hi so'' with small cosy spaces and high prices

 

Of course a total failure at the end, if you want to pay high prices you don't go to a food court !

 

They should have kept the good old one, just doing some necessary but limited changes (Like to replace the dirty and destroyed tables and sofas and having better paid\educated people at the ticket boot, they were rude and with no smiles) 

 

My bet is a ''big head'' has decided all this mess from above instead of listen to the customers or the people on the ground, a Thai classic

Edited May 31, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That car park building at Bali Hi was built on the only park in down town Pattaya, and it had plenty of trees.

Yes it's really a shame and they are going to do the same thing in Naklua

as i said it seems the city hall hates the trees

They have also cut down a lot of them on the beach and along beach road, they were supposed to be replaced, and of course they are not

 

If i think for a slogan for Pattaya city hall, it will be

''more cement, less trees'' !

Edited May 31, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

People just don't want Hi-so food in a food court

Not entirely true. On the floor below the MBK food court ( the best food court in Thailand IMO ) there was a high class food court with hiso prices and it was always busy when I passed by.

It was just by the escalator up to the cheap food court.

[newnative]

59 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Had they stopped at Central it would have been fine. Pattaya can only accommodate so many potential customers, so till enough accommodation was built in down town Pattaya there were never going to be enough customers for all the malls.

 

I have no idea why some were not built in Jomptien, which I believe has none.

     Why?   A little thing called synergy.  Discounting the bit players like Avenue and The Bay, you've got Festival with Hilton at one end and T21 with Grande Centre Point Hotel at the other.  The two malls, pre-covid, were both strong draws.  If you're a major hotel, where do you want to be in Pattaya?  Likely somewhere near these two.  Festival got the ball rolling and T21 coming triggered big changes to the north Pattaya Beach area.

    So, we now have Hilton, Hard Rock Hotel, Mytt, Siam@Siam, Dusit, Ozo Hotel, Brighton, Grand Palazzo, Holiday Inn, Amari and the new Amari addition, and others.  Plus three more large highrise hotels under construction: Grande Centre Point 2 and another across the street from it, and a large hotel going up across from Festival.  And, of course, the more popular an area is, the more other businesses want to be there.  

[Inala]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Errrrrr, the on line bit was only to arrange a meeting for "flesh to flesh" contact. That may have changed after corona given lack of farangs actually IN Thailand, but IMO it'll change back when the customers return. IMO hanging around in some grotty bar pretending to like fat sweaty farangs must have been very boring.

 

Errrrr, partly right. The girls in Soi 6 etc are actually doing online shows......for the thousands of punters stuck outside Thailand. Agree, it will change back.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, newnative said:

     Why?   A little thing called synergy.  Discounting the bit players like Avenue and The Bay, you've got Festival with Hilton at one end and T21 with Grande Centre Point Hotel at the other.  The two malls, pre-covid, were both strong draws.  If you're a major hotel, where do you want to be in Pattaya?  Likely somewhere near these two.  Festival got the ball rolling and T21 coming triggered big changes to the north Pattaya Beach area.

    So, we now have Hilton, Hard Rock Hotel, Mytt, Siam@Siam, Dusit, Ozo Hotel, Brighton, Grand Palazzo, Holiday Inn, Amari and the new Amari addition, and others.  Plus three more large highrise hotels under construction: Grande Centre Point 2 and another across the street from it, and a large hotel going up across from Festival.  And, of course, the more popular an area is, the more other businesses want to be there.  

I understand where you are coming from and in a perfect world......................................

 

Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world and the best laid plans and all that. Given there are far better places in Thailand/ the world than a dirty, congested, polluted town with a small dirty beach and sea unsafe to swim in, with a council that can't stop it flooding after a mild shower, things may not work out the way the investors think it will.

 

Pattaya was popular for one thing, and the zillion baht question is will they still come if it's just the beach to attract them?

 

Undoubtedly the weekend crowd from Bkk will sustain some sort of life in downtown Pattaya, but is that enough without the Chinese masses?

[kingofthemountain]

7 minutes ago, Inala said:

 

Errrrr, partly right. The girls in Soi 6 etc are actually doing online shows......for the thousands of punters stuck outside Thailand. Agree, it will change back.

mmm you are a bit optimistic

from what i can see on their best days

they have a dozen of viewers on the other side of the cam

 

And they are less and less bars and girls doing that week after week

moving in front of a cam like a stupid doll 10 hours\day in a tiny short time room

for less than 100 bahts\day it's not really the dream life, i don't even talk about 

the dialogue abuses the girls have from some trolls western guys bored in their mom basement

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, Inala said:

 

Errrrr, partly right. The girls in Soi 6 etc are actually doing online shows......for the thousands of punters stuck outside Thailand. Agree, it will change back.

Actually they came late to it. If I'd been interested in that sort of thing, the internet was chockka with nubile western girls doing shows ( for money ) from their bedrooms way back in the early 2000s. Luckily for me I got the real thing twice a year in LOS.

The difference is that the western girls were only digital, while Thai on line was a precursor to the real thing.

Unless the Japanese perfect the android love doll before corona leaves Thai shores, the real thing will return. Too much money to be made to not return.

[morrobay]

34 minutes ago, newnative said:

     Why?   A little thing called synergy.  Discounting the bit players like Avenue and The Bay, you've got Festival with Hilton at one end and T21 with Grande Centre Point Hotel at the other.  The two malls, pre-covid, were both strong draws.  If you're a major hotel, where do you want to be in Pattaya?  Likely somewhere near these two.  Festival got the ball rolling and T21 coming triggered big changes to the north Pattaya Beach area.

    So, we now have Hilton, Hard Rock Hotel, Mytt, Siam@Siam, Dusit, Ozo Hotel, Brighton, Grand Palazzo, Holiday Inn, Amari and the new Amari addition, and others.  Plus three more large highrise hotels under construction: Grande Centre Point 2 and another across the street from it, and a large hotel going up across from Festival.  And, of course, the more popular an area is, the more other businesses want to be there.  

Don't forget that synergy can also be negative: the value of the whole/total is less than the sum of the parts. 1+1+1+1+1=3

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why would anyone want to walk around in the heat, when Royal Garden was a very nice, fully AC mall, and only a 5 minute walk away.

Well of course, I was pulled by Shenanigan's that was there but generally I too regard Malls as short cuts to cool off in. Soi 7 to Walking St was via there.

[Smithson]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not entirely true. On the floor below the MBK food court ( the best food court in Thailand IMO ) there was a high class food court with hiso prices and it was always busy when I passed by.

It was just by the escalator up to the cheap food court.

Lots of restaurants in that court closed pre covid. There's also one in Emporium which is close to empty.

[morrobay]

4 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

Yes it's really a shame and they are going to do the same thing in Naklua

as i said it seems the city hall hates the trees

 

These people just can't stop screwing this place up. Have a last look at what was a nice area.  

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, upu2 said:

This fear can be kept going for as long as anyone wants it to. A virus such as Covid can and will change. The change can be used to instill more fear if that is what anyone wants to do.

 

What most farangs don't realise is, that as the push is on for mass vaccination on June 7 onwards, if they just chilled, no need to get the Sinovac or the AZ vaccines.

 

If they are prepared to sit it out, social distance, wear a mask, and wash hands regularly, herd immunity would more than likely be reached by the time an alternative vaccine with more efficacy will arrive, and then their good to go. 

 

Roll up that sleeve with no fear, make your choice, simple.

[newnative]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I understand where you are coming from and in a perfect world......................................

 

Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world and the best laid plans and all that. Given there are far better places in Thailand/ the world than a dirty, congested, polluted town with a small dirty beach and sea unsafe to swim in, with a council that can't stop it flooding after a mild shower, things may not work out the way the investors think it will.

 

Pattaya was popular for one thing, and the zillion baht question is will they still come if it's just the beach to attract them?

 

Undoubtedly the weekend crowd from Bkk will sustain some sort of life in downtown Pattaya, but is that enough without the Chinese masses?

    We do hear that--mostly from Thai Visa posters--that there are better places to visit than Pattaya.  Still, in 2019 pre-covid, they were coming, for whatever reason, in droves.  Yes, Chinese, yes Bangkokians, but also from other countries, as well--India, Russia,  other ASEAN countries, other Asian countries,  and, yes, westerners, too, though perhaps not as many. 

    I think I remember reading that Mastercard had Pattaya at 15th or 19th most popular in the World.  Mastercard, not TAT.   Obviously, you and others think Pattaya only exists for, as you say, 'one thing'.  But, in reality, that has not been the case for sometime.   Whether the tourists will return in big numbers when things open up again is up in the air, as it likely is for some other tourist destinations.  

[jacko45k]

And yet Bangkok, a place still registering high infections is opening up?

Bangkok loosens restrictions, allows 5 types of places to reopen tomorrow.

 

Spa, massage parlours and healthcare-related venues can reopen, but no steam baths or facial massages are allowed at this time

I presume the date on line 2 should be June 1st not May 1st,

Thaiger.

Edited May 31, 2021 by jacko45k

[bkk6060]

15 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

What most farangs don't realise is, that as the push is on for mass vaccination on June 7 onwards, if they just chilled, no need to get the Sinovac or the AZ vaccines.

 

If they are prepared to sit it out, social distance, wear a mask, and wash hands regularly, herd immunity would more than likely be reached by the time an alternative vaccine with more efficacy will arrive, and then their good to go. 

 

Roll up that sleeve with no fear, make your choice, simple.

As there is another thread with this:

The Center for Covid-19 Situation Administration (CCSA) last week asked people to “slow down” their vaccine registration via the Mor Phrom Application due to limited supply of vaccines.

 

The locally produced AstraZeneca vaccine will reportedly not be delivered in June as scheduled.

 

 

So, mass vaccination of what?

Wait, wait, wait.  Nice you have a positive attitude, but in the mean time people ( and I bet some ex-pats) will in fact die even taking what they believe are the right precautions.  All sadly due to the utter incompetence. 

 

[morrobay]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

 

 

 

So, mass vaccination of what?

Wait, wait, wait.  Nice you have a positive attitude, but in the mean time people ( and I bet some ex-pats) will in fact die even taking what they believe are the right precautions.  

 

Taking the right precautions ? Well that would include :obesity, hypertension, diabetis and cigarette smoking. Surprised some of these people are still walking around.

[rcuthbert]

A smart politician would provide 10,000 baht per month assistance to those families whose provider can not support his family, and  5000 baht per month for eligible singles.

[clivebaxter]

5 minutes ago, rcuthbert said:

A smart politician would provide 10,000 baht per month assistance to those families whose provider can not support his family, and  5000 baht per month for eligible singles.

 

They got 1k last week and one 1k the week before, that's it. Good luck trying to spend it, big shops no and even many market traders won't take it. Some just get the cash after paying commission from it to local traders, so might as well have given cash in the first place.

[petermik]

7 hours ago, rcuthbert said:

A smart politician would provide 10,000 baht per month assistance to those families whose provider can not support his family, and  5000 baht per month for eligible singles.

You wont find one of those in this government.....????

[kingofthemountain]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

And yet Bangkok, a place still registering high infections is opening up?

Bangkok loosens restrictions, allows 5 types of places to reopen tomorrow.

 

Spa, massage parlours and healthcare-related venues can reopen, but no steam baths or facial massages are allowed at this time

I presume the date on line 2 should be June 1st not May 1st,

Thaiger.

This decision was taken by the BMA (Bangkok metropolitan administration, the

''city hall'' for the city) and was reversed few hours later by the CCSA

(Center for covid situation administration, a sort of crisis council) wich is the

level above the first one and in charge for all the decisions in Thailand atm

but yes you could think the highest authorities talk to each other when it's obvious

it's not the case, as usual the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/31/2021 at 5:25 PM, jacko45k said:

Well of course, I was pulled by Shenanigan's that was there but generally I too regard Malls as short cuts to cool off in. Soi 7 to Walking St was via there.

Fair enough. I've done that myself, but if it was at night I'd walk down Soi 8 to check out the bargirls, and then along the promenade to check out the freelancers.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/1/2021 at 1:21 PM, rcuthbert said:

A smart politician would provide 10,000 baht per month assistance to those families whose provider can not support his family, and  5000 baht per month for eligible singles.

LOL. More likely to go on booze, women and gambling than the family IMO.

 

The only way to ensure the family benefits is to give rent and food vouchers, IMO.

Edited June 2, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/31/2021 at 9:58 PM, newnative said:

    We do hear that--mostly from Thai Visa posters--that there are better places to visit than Pattaya.  Still, in 2019 pre-covid, they were coming, for whatever reason, in droves.  Yes, Chinese, yes Bangkokians, but also from other countries, as well--India, Russia,  other ASEAN countries, other Asian countries,  and, yes, westerners, too, though perhaps not as many. 

    I think I remember reading that Mastercard had Pattaya at 15th or 19th most popular in the World.  Mastercard, not TAT.   Obviously, you and others think Pattaya only exists for, as you say, 'one thing'.  But, in reality, that has not been the case for sometime.   Whether the tourists will return in big numbers when things open up again is up in the air, as it likely is for some other tourist destinations.  

Most Chinese came on organised tours for the seafood, IMO; the Russians for the big malls and the shopping, plus I believe the far end of Walking Street was always popular with Russians, loads of Indians in Pattaya and people go where countrymen are, plenty of Arabs because of Little Arabia, which existed since long before the boom. Scandinavians had their enclave in South Naklua. Japanese had Thaniya in Bkk, so not much reason to go to Pattaya; so which "other" Asian countries do you refer to? In the 90s farangs were the dominant visitors, and they stayed all over, but apart from golfers, most were there for one thing, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/31/2021 at 8:46 PM, 4MyEgo said:

wear a mask,

LOL.

I remember how we were told that Japan avoided the corona early on because they were a mask wearing culture already. Strange then, how Japan is now being overwhelmed by corona, isn't it?

[jacko45k]

55 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Fair enough. I've done that myself, but if it was at night I'd walk down Soi 8 to check out the bargirls, and then along the promenade to check out the freelancers.

My mind was set on WS GGBs, certainly not the Beach Road rough trade. It used to be good old WS!

Edited June 2, 2021 by jacko45k