Pattaya A Dead or Dying City?

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, champers said:

T21 was doing well pre-Covid and since Covid began they have decided to build a new muti-storey car park; under construction now. The owners must be optimistic.

It is a great Mall but like Central was a pain to get to and park in. The multi-storey  is an attempt to address that, but I will still be using BigC-X on a Sunday morning.... in and out quite easy. 

[Leaver]

48 minutes ago, champers said:

T21 was doing well pre-Covid

 

That was not my observations, pre covid.

 

49 minutes ago, champers said:

and since Covid began they have decided to build a new muti-storey car park; under construction now.

 

Let's say the new car park is a hit with consumers.  There's only enough customers to go around for a certain amount of malls here.  

 

If T21 was to become successful, it would be at the expense of another mall.   

[rcuthbert]

On 5/21/2021 at 11:58 AM, moontang said:

Complete with rioting, looting, Russian mob, angry Africans?  It's already close. 

Over the course of the 14 years that I have lived in Patts, I have learned The following rules: respect all Thais, don't hit street dogs, only flash low denomination notes, learn how to bargain with the girls, if a LB hits on you just say "chawp puying" and keep walking, don't get in fights with Farangs, don't cheat on your Thai girl (Some will slice of your weenie - AKA "feed the ducks", understate your wealth - and never be worth more dead  than alive. If follow those, and stay alert, then Patts is a paradise.

[rcuthbert]

On 5/12/2021 at 10:33 AM, J Town said:

If anyone read "The Dark Tower" series, they'll understand the term "the world has moved on."  Yes, everything is shut down by decree and will probably go on an "open/shut" roller coaster for a year or two.

 

The sex industry was Pattaya's forte. That's been demolished. The girls found out they can make a fortune online without ever swapping bodily fluids. I don't think it will ever return to its glorious apex of the previous decade. I'm just seriously grateful I got in as many soapies as I did!

 

The world has moved on.

"The oldest profession in the world" will rise ???? again.

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, rcuthbert said:

"The oldest profession in the world" will rise ???? again.

 

Yes, but it will take quite some time.  It will not happen overnight, simply because borders have been opened.  

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, Leaver said:

If T21 was to become successful, it would be at the expense of another mall.  

Well yes, I think they hit Central Festival BR... certainly their overpriced food court. 

[Henryford]

16 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It is a great Mall but like Central was a pain to get to and park in. The multi-storey  is an attempt to address that, but I will still be using BigC-X on a Sunday morning.... in and out quite easy. 

 

I never found T21 a problem for parking, much better than Central. But then i tend to during the week to avoid the weekend shoppers.  I was there this week, the place was almost empty (except for the great food hall). The shops there must have deep pockets.

[JensenZ]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If that is the Royal Garden Hotel mall it is the exception to what I'm going to say as it predated all the new malls, but IMO any mall doing badly that was built after Central deserve their failure as there were already too many malls.

That's a very short-sighted assessment of the pre-covid era. When malls are built, they are looking to the future and growth of the tourism industry, not expecting it to fail. Do you think new mall developments should not compete with existing malls for market share? There are ups and downs in tourism industry, but they look long term. Your "too many malls" comment makes no sense either. Central Mall is the most successful of them, and that came AFTER Garden Plaza and Central Marina, both which predated it by many years. It came after and destroyed them. If most cities held your ideas, there would never be any advancement at all. Speculation is what makes the modern world tick. Competition is a good thing.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

 

I never found T21 a problem for parking, much better than Central. But then i tend to during the week to avoid the weekend shoppers.  I was there this week, the place was almost empty (except for the great food hall). The shops there must have deep pockets.

Well it turned North Rd into a traffic jam, and I come in from out of town... I would be better with a smaller vehicle.

[Leaver]

10 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Well yes, I think they hit Central Festival BR... certainly their overpriced food court. 

 

Point being, if one mall is busy, it means another mall is not.  

[kingofthemountain]

20 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Point being, if one mall is busy, it means another mall is not.  

i agree with that

 

Mike shopping mall has been killed by Royal garden plaza

then Royal garden plaza has been killed by Central festival

finally Central festival has been killed by Terminal 21

now Terminal 21 has been killed by Covid 19

 

The Avenue and Central marina were never serious challengers

due to their small size and their location

i don't even talk about The Bay, wich has never really been opened

even if it's finished since years now

 

Of course all the ''dead'' shopping malls are still operating

the oldest with most of the shops inside closed and few cheap

clothes fair stands in the middle

 

i wonder if all these shopping malls in Pattaya aren't for some very wealthy people more a way to ''park'' their cash somewhere in ''brick and mortar things'' rather than to expect a return on investissment, even on the long term

 

Rince and repeat, the eternal Pattaya mantra

Edited May 30, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[tomyami]

expect more of this at the corner of soi Diana and second road will they help fill the malls

 

[Leaver]

28 minutes ago, tomyami said:

expect more of this at the corner of soi Diana and second road will they help fill the malls

 

 

How will they help fill the malls when they are not full themselves?  Just look at the Base next door.  

[johng]

11 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

How will they help fill the malls when they are not full themselves?  Just look at the Base next door.  

Even before the Covidiocy  they where saying there where something  like 35,000 unsold units in Pattaya !

 

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

How will they help fill the malls when they are not full themselves?  Just look at the Base next door.  

Even if they were full, i don't see how it could help the malls

these ''condo-hotel'' are the cheapest option on airbnb and the like

that means they are full of tourists that you are more likely to see at the 7\11

buying a cheap 40bhts meal rather than in an expensive restaurant 

in one of the shopping malls.  

 

That's why the 7\11 have been mutiplied by 10 or 20 in the last years in this area

and that's why the food court in T21 was dirty cheap, they were all targeting

these people.

 

You can attract a lot of people in T21 with 30 or 40 thb meals in your food court

 that creates the illusion of a big traffic in the center

so you can ask a high rent for your space if you are the owner of the mall

however i am not sure at all it gives a decent customers base for the shops and restaurants

 

 

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, tomyami said:

expect more of this at the corner of soi Diana and second road will they help fill the malls

 

This type of building shouldn't be

allowed to be build for safety reasons

it's just a disaster waiting to happens

 

imagine if a fire start in high season in the middle

of the night in the low levels, it will be hundred\thousand of victims

 

Maybe the oldest of us remember the fire in the hotel in Jomtiem ?

https://apnews.com/article/31d72ecfed6d2d558a4889e1c451fd85

 

 

Unfortunately the firefighters in Pattaya haven't a much better equipment nowadays and they are not prepared at all to fight a fire in this type of building

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by kingofthemountain

[redwood1]

15 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Well yes, I think they hit Central Festival BR... certainly their overpriced food court. 

 

Has anyone been to or seen the Central Festival food court lately?

 

Holy Mother Mary......DEAD is to kind of a word for that place, I have seen more lively morgs .....The few wayward souls who are occupying chairs, mostly seem to be hanging out a bit or having a coffee...

 

Most of the cooks have nothing to do but play on their phones all day....

 

Even with 100% free rent those food booths have to losing $$$ every single day they are open.....Central must be paying them to stay open, no possible way they are even covering overhead....

 

That food court was packed all day every day in days past, that place was a money printing machine...They traded in a gold mine for a turd and no one seems to really care....

 

If I was incharge, First day on the job I would be passing out plenty of walking papers for this food court remodel disaster....

 

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by redwood1

[kinyara]

Until I start to see global fashion brands like Uniglo and H&M merge their Central Festival and Terminal 21 outlets into 1 store I remain convinced that there is enough business and customer differentiation for both the main malls to profitably co-exist in the long-term. It's great to have 2 quality retail options in the town.

 

The big question for me is what happens to the Avenue, Marina, Royal Garden in the next few years and also that horrendous eyesore The Bay, I think they should just demolish that one and start again.  

[kinyara]

17 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Has anyone been to or seen the Central Festival food court lately?

 

Holy Mother Mary......DEAD is to kind of a word for that place, I have seen more lively morgs .....The few wayward souls who are occupying chairs, mostly seem to be hanging out a bit or having a coffee...

 

Most of the cooks have nothing to do but play on their phones all day....

 

Even with 100% free rent those food booths have to losing $$$ every single day they are open.....Central must be paying them to stay open, no possible way they are even covering overhead....

 

That food court was packed all day every day in days past, that place was a money printing machine...They traded in a gold mine for a turd and no one seems to really care....

 

If I was incharge, First day on the job I would passing out plenty of walking papers for this food court remodel disaster....

 

 

 

Totally agree with you on the food court,  if ain't broke don't fix it.  I can't for the life of me think why they decided to change what was a winning formula, and replace it with a clearly inferior set-up.

[Lacessit]

On 5/20/2021 at 4:00 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course it will live on to some degree, but it might be reduced to the pitiful level of Chiang Mai, where the bars are a bad joke. They were so pathetic that I just couldn't be bothered, and I used to be a bar addict in Pattaya. I couldn't even find a decent soapy. There was one in a big hotel, but it had been closed permanently.

AFAIK Sayuri and Celeb are still open for business.

[kinyara]

Forgot about Tops on the corner of the traffic light junction of Klang and 2nd road, that's another outlet fallen on hard times ripe for repurposing in a good location.

Edited May 30, 2021 by kinyara

[kingofthemountain]

50 minutes ago, kinyara said:

The big question for me is what happens to the Avenue, Marina, Royal Garden in the next few years and also that horrendous eyesore The Bay, I think they should just demolish that one and start again.  

They are the perfect places to create few public parks

unfortunately the city hall and the Thais seems to hate the trees

so i wouldn't be surprised if they do more parking for the cars instead

(That's exactly what they are going to do in Naklua, a car park at the place of the actual park)

[tomyami]

why are they building really bad condos small 26sqm arcadia, base and the 1 imaged no balcony definitely build with short stay plan for visitors, needs mass tourist movement to work wont bring higher quality market but tour groups for sure when it comes back pattaya screwed till then

[newnative]

10 hours ago, kinyara said:

Until I start to see global fashion brands like Uniglo and H&M merge their Central Festival and Terminal 21 outlets into 1 store I remain convinced that there is enough business and customer differentiation for both the main malls to profitably co-exist in the long-term. It's great to have 2 quality retail options in the town.

 

The big question for me is what happens to the Avenue, Marina, Royal Garden in the next few years and also that horrendous eyesore The Bay, I think they should just demolish that one and start again.  

     Agree.  Both malls were doing well in 2019.  Before T21, my partner and I couldn't go to Festival on a weekend--just too busy.  After T21  opened it was a little less busy and finding a parking place--and getting in and out of the parking garage--was now manageable.  We sometimes go to Festival, sometimes T21.  Nice to have both.  

[johng]

13 hours ago, johng said:

Even before the Covidiocy  they where saying there where something  like 35,000 unsold units in Pattaya !

 

 

Sorry poor recollection.   25,000 not 35,000 ????

 

"The Pattaya condo market is seeing significant oversupply according to Colliers Research, with more than 25,000 units remaining unsold as of the end of 2019"

 

https://thailand-business-supplement.com/2020/04/17/pattaya-condo-market-sees-record-oversupply/

[upu2]

On 5/12/2021 at 5:19 AM, 4MyEgo said:

It doesn't take much these days with technology to create fear, TV, media and some ugly looking dudes in suits who are in powerful positions, also wearing a mask, and having been vaccinated.

 

The light at the end of the tunnel are vaccines, and for those who take them, you will be rewarded and get your vaccine passports to travel and life will be back to normal.

 

We can then live happily ever after.

This fear can be kept going for as long as anyone wants it to. A virus such as Covid can and will change. The change can be used to instill more fear if that is what anyone wants to do.

[Inala]

On 5/12/2021 at 11:33 AM, J Town said:

If anyone read "The Dark Tower" series, they'll understand the term "the world has moved on."  Yes, everything is shut down by decree and will probably go on an "open/shut" roller coaster for a year or two.

 

The sex industry was Pattaya's forte. That's been demolished. The girls found out they can make a fortune online without ever swapping bodily fluids. I don't think it will ever return to its glorious apex of the previous decade. I'm just seriously grateful I got in as many soapies as I did!

 

The world has moved on.

 

No it hasn't, it's just in respite due to the virus. A look back in history to the roaring twenties shows what happens when the virus eventually recedes.

 

Pattaya will come back because humans crave social experiences. The girls working online and their customers will be bored with the sterility of that experience and jump at the chance for flesh to flesh contact.

 

It'll be an explosion of celebrations.   

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/29/2021 at 10:17 PM, jacko45k said:

Just T21 I think... pretty sure Harbor predated Central Festival. And that one along with The Avenue never stood a chance. 

I don't consider the Avenues to have ever been a contender for success. I knew when it opened ( I was there at the ceremony ) that it would fail simply because it was not all air conditioned. Why would anyone want to walk around in the heat, when Royal Garden was a very nice, fully AC mall, and only a 5 minute walk away.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, redwood1 said:

That food court was packed all day every day in days past, that place was a money printing machine...They traded in a gold mine for a turd and no one seems to really care....

Every time I went it was packed with Russians, and I believe that the Russians have not yet returned.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Inala said:

The girls working online and their customers will be bored with the sterility of that experience and jump at the chance for flesh to flesh contact.

Errrrrr, the on line bit was only to arrange a meeting for "flesh to flesh" contact. That may have changed after corona given lack of farangs actually IN Thailand, but IMO it'll change back when the customers return. IMO hanging around in some grotty bar pretending to like fat sweaty farangs must have been very boring.