Prosecutor seeks hate crime charges, death penalty in Atlanta spa shootings

[Meat Pie 47]

On 5/19/2021 at 10:19 PM, Yellowtail said:

 

I have heard that quite often, yet the guys on death row typically do not share that opinion. 

 

Why is it everyone seems to fight so vigorously to get their death sentences commuted to life?

 

Why are there so few people doing life that commit suicide? 

 

Being in jail is really not that bad in the US, certainly better than death. Just my opinion, and one that is shared by virtually everyone doing life or on death row... 

prison cell in Australia

[Jeffr2]

America:

[billd766]

5 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I'm against the death penalty for 2 reasons.  One, several executed criminals have recently been found to be innocent.  Mistakes do happen, and with the death penalty, there's no going back.

 

Two, it costs a LOT more financially to go after the death penalty.  IMHO, put them to work.  Make them pay for their incarceration.  I shouldn't have to.

I can accept your point of view about opposing the death penalty, however this person went out that day with the deliberate intention of murdering as many people as he could.

 

He seemed to want to murder Asians for a preference but anybody would do.

 

There is not the slightest chance of his innocence, and the reason that it costs so much is that appeal after appeal is mad to stop his execution, mostly at the expense of the UP public. Convicted murderers should be allowed only 1 appeal, and they should have to pay for it themselves so it is NOT coming from the public purse.

 

You say, and I accept that, several innocent persons have been executed by mistake. How many were convicted and executed.

 

The best I can offer at the moment is this.

 

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp

 

Homicide, Aggravated Assault, and Kidnapping Offenses  4,573  3.2%

 

It is quite an interesting read if you click onto each item in turn.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

How about you do a Google search, and find how many people have been on death row, but were later found innocent?

How about you do it and tell us all?

 

Meanwhile you could look here and select the USA and perhaps you can come up with a recent number. Some of it dates back to 1862.

 

It is a bit difficult to plough your way through but there are about 20 in the last 150 years.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Meat Pie 47 said:

prison cell in Australia

Thai prison cell.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

28 minutes ago, billd766 said:

How about you do it and tell us all?

 

Meanwhile you could look here and select the USA and perhaps you can come up with a recent number. Some of it dates back to 1862.

 

It is a bit difficult to plough your way through but there are about 20 in the last 150 years.

 

 

It's funny the people that claim to "know" yet refuse to say.

 

It's been my experience that people claiming to know yet refusing to saw don't know at all and their opinions are based on emotion rather than fact. 

 

I'm guessing the same people that are against capital punishment because a few people may have been wrongly put to death have no problem with the government compelling otherwise healthy people to take a vaccine that will certainly kill more people than have been wrongly executed the US. 

 

 

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

I can accept your point of view about opposing the death penalty, however this person went out that day with the deliberate intention of murdering as many people as he could.

 

He seemed to want to murder Asians for a preference but anybody would do.

 

There is not the slightest chance of his innocence, and the reason that it costs so much is that appeal after appeal is mad to stop his execution, mostly at the expense of the UP public. Convicted murderers should be allowed only 1 appeal, and they should have to pay for it themselves so it is NOT coming from the public purse.

 

You say, and I accept that, several innocent persons have been executed by mistake. How many were convicted and executed.

 

The best I can offer at the moment is this.

 

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp

 

Homicide, Aggravated Assault, and Kidnapping Offenses  4,573  3.2%

 

It is quite an interesting read if you click onto each item in turn.

"You say, and I accept that, several innocent persons have been executed by mistake. How many were convicted and executed."

For the innocent ones it is totally irrelevant that there are many more guilty. They are not and should not be in jail, let alone executed.

 

"Convicted murderers should be allowed only 1 appeal, and they should have to pay for it themselves so it is NOT coming from the public purse."

So no due process.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

"You say, and I accept that, several innocent persons have been executed by mistake. How many were convicted and executed."

For the innocent ones it is totally irrelevant that there are many more guilty. They are not and should not be in jail, let alone executed.

 

"Convicted murderers should be allowed only 1 appeal, and they should have to pay for it themselves so it is NOT coming from the public purse."

So no due process.

 

It is totally irrelevant to the murder victims and their families as well.

 

If you're going to argue against capital punishment because "innocent" people could be executed, you have to also accept the argument that no one should be incarcerated because "innocent" people could be incarcerated. 

 

To be clear, I would not argue that convicted murderers should only be allowed one appeal.  

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

 

It's funny the people that claim to "know" yet refuse to say.

 

It's been my experience that people claiming to know yet refusing to saw don't know at all and their opinions are based on emotion rather than fact. 

 

I'm guessing the same people that are against capital punishment because a few people may have been wrongly put to death have no problem with the government compelling otherwise healthy people to take a vaccine that will certainly kill more people than have been wrongly executed the US. 

 

 

Nice troll post.  Again.  Not sure why you're doing this.  Bizarre.

[Jeffr2]

42 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

It is totally irrelevant to the murder victims and their families as well.

 

If you're going to argue against capital punishment because "innocent" people could be executed, you have to also accept the argument that no one should be incarcerated because "innocent" people could be incarcerated. 

 

To be clear, I would not argue that convicted murderers should only be allowed one appeal.  

There's a huge difference between being incarcerated and being killed.  With that later, if eventually found out to be innocent, it's a bit difficult to make amends. 

 

As for this guy, yeah.  Guilty as hell. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/us/ledell-lee-dna-testing-arkansas.html

4 Years After an Execution, a Different Man’s DNA Is Found on the Murder Weapon

Lawyers’ request to conduct additional DNA testing before Ledell Lee was executed had been denied.

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Jeffr2

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

There's a huge difference between being incarcerated and being killed.  With that later, if eventually found out to be innocent, it's a bit difficult to make amends. 

 

As for this guy, yeah.  Guilty as hell. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/us/ledell-lee-dna-testing-arkansas.html

4 Years After an Execution, a Different Man’s DNA Is Found on the Murder Weapon

Lawyers’ request to conduct additional DNA testing before Ledell Lee was executed had been denied.

 

 

Nice troll post.  Again.  Not sure why you're doing this.  Bizarre.

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

It is totally irrelevant to the murder victims and their families as well.

 

If you're going to argue against capital punishment because "innocent" people could be executed, you have to also accept the argument that no one should be incarcerated because "innocent" people could be incarcerated. 

 

To be clear, I would not argue that convicted murderers should only be allowed one appeal.  

I'd say there is a big difference to getting one's life ended due to a judicial mishap and getting incarcerated due to a judicial mishap. Your reasoning 'you have to accept' makes no sense.

[Patong2021]

Incarceration and/or death penalty is easy way out to deal with a complex problem and avoid the uncomfortable reasons why a 21 year old male did this. Yes, he did wrong, but why?  Look at the man and the circumstances of killing and you can see that there are many people who share responsibility. Locking him away or killing him allows these people to escape their role/responsibility and allows the local society to ignore root cause.

 

Has anyone considered that;

- This was  a psychologically damaged/disease person. He had porn and sex addiction, but why?

- He was product of right wing southern baptist upbringing that demonized sexual desire.

- He underwent lengthy "treatment" at an evangelical treatment facility for  an evangelical defined sex addiction, a crisis of "temptation".  

- He was able to obtain a firearm without any waiting period and with minimal background verification.

 

I do not make excuse, but I can see how his religious upbringing  made him  feel guilty about sex and normal male desire. Then he attended "therapy" which most likely  encourage him to blame  the massage parlor/brothel as evil temptation that had to be eliminated. And then, local society allows anyone to buy a deadly weapon with minimal verification and no waiting period.

 

Yes, he did wrongful act, but the local society had a strong influence. It did not heal the mentally ill man, but made him worse. Call him loser and all names you want, but he was crazy man shaped and transformed to transform his evil thoughts into evil action by his community.

 

 

On 5/22/2021 at 4:09 AM, Yellowtail said:

Again, what was so bad about it? Doesn't seem all that bad to me. 

One who does not see a US prison as "all that bad" suggests someone who polite society would wish to avoid.

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Patong2021

[canthai55]

On 5/22/2021 at 9:52 AM, Yellowtail said:

 

How many times have you been?

In one stretch or cumulative ?

Longest 5 out of 8

[canthai55]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

How about you do it and tell us all?

https://innocenceproject.org/

[Yellowtail]

10 hours ago, stevenl said:

I'd say there is a big difference to getting one's life ended due to a judicial mishap and getting incarcerated due to a judicial mishap. Your reasoning 'you have to accept' makes no sense.

 

I'd say you were right about that, but that it in no way addresses what I said. 

 

I am not arguing that they are the same, I am arguing that IF the only argument against capital punishment it that a small percentage of "innocent" people will be executed, it follows that you should not incarcerate anyone as some people will be wrongly incarcerated. That you are unable or unwilling to follow that logic is disappointing.

 

Many more people are wrongly incarcerated than wrongly executed, and if someone is wrongly incarcerated for five years (or five minutes) they can never get that time back.  

 

 

[Yellowtail]

10 hours ago, josthomz said:

 

He's right, though. 

 

Wouldn't be the first time someone innocent has been executed. When you put an innocent in jail and later find out, you can offer some type of monetary compensation, etc. Which although it won't give back the lost years; at least it is something.

 

Once you execute someone, what can you do? 

 

Death penalty should be left for those cases in which there is no chance that they one being executed isn't guilty; example: There are CCTV recordings of him killing someone.... And not apply capital punishments on those cases in which that person is found guilty through witnesses, deduction, etc etc...

 

Or if anything abolish capital punishment, tbh I would believe for such a criminal it would be way harsher punishment to be locked up til the end of their life than "getting the bullet".

 

Again, I am not arguing for capital punishment,  I am against capital punishment. My position is that that the logic of your argument against it is flawed. 

 

You are also claiming that life imprisonment is a much harsher punishment than being executed, but that claim is not based in fact. Again, virtually everyone on death row is trying to get their sentence commuted to life in prison, while virtually no one doing life is trying to get executed.

 

But assuming you are correct, and that spending years in prison is worse that being executed, would it not be more humane to execute people rather than to incarcerate them,  regardless of whether they were rightly or wrongly convicted? 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

18 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I'd say you were right about that, but that it in no way addresses what I said. 

 

I am not arguing that they are the same, I am arguing that IF the only argument against capital punishment it that a small percentage of "innocent" people will be executed, it follows that you should not incarcerate anyone as some people will be wrongly incarcerated. That you are unable or unwilling to follow that logic is disappointing.

 

Many more people are wrongly incarcerated than wrongly executed, and if someone is wrongly incarcerated for five years (or five minutes) they can never get that time back.  

 

 

Your logic makes no sense.  Perhaps to you, but not the rest of us.

[Yellowtail]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

Your logic makes no sense.  Perhaps to you, but not the rest of us.

 

Another troll-post, I'm shocked.

 

Why not point out the error in my logic rather than just claiming it makes no sense? 

 

Making unsupported claims makes not sense to me. 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Another troll-post, I'm shocked.

 

Why not point out the error in my logic rather than just claiming it makes no sense? 

 

Making unsupported claims makes not sense to me. 

 

Yes, you do seem to be confused.  Not sure why you don't understand what many of us are saying here.  Either way, I'm done.  Better things to do.

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

 

Yes, you do seem to be confused.  Not sure why you don't understand what many of us are saying here.  Either way, I'm done.  Better things to do.

 

More deflection huh? 

 

Enjoy your day!

[stevenl]

10 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I'd say you were right about that, but that it in no way addresses what I said. 

 

I am not arguing that they are the same, I am arguing that IF the only argument against capital punishment it that a small percentage of "innocent" people will be executed, it follows that you should not incarcerate anyone as some people will be wrongly incarcerated. That you are unable or unwilling to follow that logic is disappointing.

 

Many more people are wrongly incarcerated than wrongly executed, and if someone is wrongly incarcerated for five years (or five minutes) they can never get that time back.  

 

 

And again, your reasoning makes no sense. A pity you don't see the difference between wrongly incarceration and wrongly execution.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

And again, your reasoning makes no sense. A pity you don't see the difference between wrongly incarceration and wrongly execution.

 

I see a clear difference between the two and I said as much.

 

How does it make no sense, because you say so? 

 

Seems to be the standard argument around here. 

[stevenl]

11 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

I see a clear difference between the two and I said as much.

 

How does it make no sense, because you say so? 

 

Seems to be the standard argument around here. 

If you see as you say the difference this reasoning "I am arguing that IF the only argument against capital punishment it that a small percentage of "innocent" people will be executed, it follows that you should not incarcerate anyone as some people will be wrongly incarcerated. " makes no sense. 

[Yellowtail]

42 minutes ago, stevenl said:

If you see as you say the difference this reasoning "I am arguing that IF the only argument against capital punishment it that a small percentage of "innocent" people will be executed, it follows that you should not incarcerate anyone as some people will be wrongly incarcerated. " makes no sense. 

 

Why does it make no sense? Again, because you say it does not? 

 

Per your reasoning, you find it acceptable that people will be wrongly incarcerated for the greater good, but unacceptable that people be executed for the greater good. 

 

I assume you find it acceptable that people be wrongly fined as well, yes? 

 

If you want to argue against capital punishment you should have a better argument. 

 

The covid vaccination kills a few people, yet for the greater good people are being compelled to be vaccinated, yes? Do you not support that? 

 

We accept things every day for the greater good that people will die as a result of, yes?

 

At least you do not make the silly claim the life in prison is a worse punishment than death. 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Why does it make no sense? Again, because you say it does not? 

 

Per your reasoning, you find it acceptable that people will be wrongly incarcerated for the greater good, but unacceptable that people be executed for the greater good. 

 

I assume you find it acceptable that people be wrongly fined as well, yes? 

 

If you want to argue against capital punishment you should have a better argument. 

 

The covid vaccination kills a few people, yet for the greater good people are being compelled to be vaccinated, yes? Do you not support that? 

 

We accept things every day for the greater good that people will die as a result of, yes?

 

At least you do not make the silly claim the life in prison is a worse punishment than death. 

 

 

Please, give it up.  You're looking a bit silly....

[Yellowtail]

38 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Please, give it up.  You're looking a bit silly....

 

Is that all you have, really? You've not really addressed anything I've said. All you really do when asked a question is try to shut down the discussion. Why do you think that is? 

 

"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." 

 

All you seem to be discussing is me. How funny is that? 

 

Weak.

[stevenl]

11 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Why does it make no sense? Again, because you say it does not? 

 

Per your reasoning, you find it acceptable that people will be wrongly incarcerated for the greater good, but unacceptable that people be executed for the greater good. 

 

I assume you find it acceptable that people be wrongly fined as well, yes? 

 

If you want to argue against capital punishment you should have a better argument. 

 

The covid vaccination kills a few people, yet for the greater good people are being compelled to be vaccinated, yes? Do you not support that? 

 

We accept things every day for the greater good that people will die as a result of, yes?

 

At least you do not make the silly claim the life in prison is a worse punishment than death. 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Please, give it up.  You're looking a bit silly....

More than a bit.

[Yellowtail]

10 hours ago, stevenl said:

 

More than a bit.

 

Your inability to formulate a substantive response makes me look silly? 

[stevenl]

20 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Your inability to formulate a substantive response makes me look silly? 

No, your posts make you look silly.