Over to you crypto fanboys

[Susco]

 

Elon Musk, one of the biggest crypto defenders, seems to have wised up on the real future of crypto currencies.

 

If he really considered it a success story, of course he would accept it as payment, and cash in on the quick additional profits 

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoin-sinks-after-elon-musk-says-tesla-will-not-accept-the-digital-coin-for-transactions-223139231.html

Bitcoin, Dogecoin sink after Elon Musk walks back Tesla's support for crypto transactions

[ukrules]

Elon Musk if you believe what he says (I don't) didn't purchase a single Bitcoin until just a couple of months back.

 

He's not really relevant in the grand scheme of things.

 

I wonder how few cars he sold?

I note that they are keeping the Bitcoin they purchased as part of the Tesla treasury holding.

 

If they really wanted out they would sell that as well, but they didn't.

Edited May 13, 2021 by ukrules

[GrandPapillon]

yeah, the actual story is actually more complex

 

the bitcoins he bought had significant impact on the last reported quarterly profit, not sales or expenses cut, actually it was expected to be quarterly loss, and it was a quarterly profit. There is a story on the WSJ about this.

 

what this means now is that Elton has to disclose, according to new SEC rules on ESG, the environment impact he has with his firm, and since Bitcoins had significant impact on the financial statements, he has to calculate accurately that impact. The problem is the financial calculation for the environment impact of Bitcoin is very very rough at the moment, hence it's impossible to report accurately (using existing methodology) that financial number in the SEC disclosure. Because of this, the firm is liable to possible future violations and fines.

 

hence, Elton got smart and tweeted that he is going to stop accepting bitcoins ????

 

[GrandPapillon]

other firms are going to follow, the ESG compliance risk is too high, and unless you know exactly what you are doing, and we all know nobody knows <deleted> all about bitcoins, then you are exposing yourself to future regulatory violations with Bitcoins.

 

Growing money on CPUs is the same as growing money on trees, it's a pipe dream ????

[ballpoint]

4 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

what this means now is that Elton has to disclose, according to new SEC rules on ESG, the environment impact he has with his firm, and since Bitcoins had significant impact on the financial statements, he has to calculate accurately that impact.

Must be serious.  He changed his name.

[GrandPapillon]

7 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Must be serious.  He changed his name.

<deleted>, I mean Eton ????

 

damn, Elon !!! ????

Edited May 13, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[The Cipher]

12 minutes ago, Susco said:

Elon Musk, one of the biggest crypto defenders, seems to have wised up on the real future of crypto currencies.

 

If he really considered it a success story, of course he would accept it as payment, and cash in on the quick additional profits 

 

There were a number of ways I thought about replying to this, but I'll try and actually be helpful this time ????.

 

So I have a pretty classic Wall Street background and was a crypto skeptic from 2016 until about half way through 2020. My skepticism was based on cryptocurrencies not fulfilling the three main conditions of money and also because the entire space seemed like a pump and dump ponzi carousel. Then, after the famous crash in 2017, I felt smug and vindicated.

 

I had numerous friends both on the tech side and the finance side that didn't lose faith in the technology post-crash and held, or added, to positions through to the start of the current bull market. And these are very smart folks. When the bull market took off, their cheaply acquired positions printed. One of my best friends - who also happens to be way smarter than me - turned an initial investment of $10k into $3M.

 

And, over the course of 2020, I watched a lot of people do multiples while I was happy with my 40%-50% gains from timing the market post Covid-crash. And they kept doing multiples and I kept doing incremental gains. And I like money too. So and during the Game Stop event I finally relented and figured I'd at least hold my nose ride the graph. Still didn't believe in the assets at that time but...money is money.

 

So I asked three friends who were deep into crypto how they were trading and each one of them was kind enough to sit down and spend hours with me explaining the tech and space. And...it was enough to make a believer out of me, because they were able to show me specifically why some of the coins are valuable. I bought my first crypto (Eth) in the fall of 2020.

 

This post has gotten pretty long, so I'll quickly wrap it by saying that a ton of stuff in the crypto space - the memecoins and such - are probably pump and dump scams. Which doesn't mean you can't make money off them, but their intrinsic value is probably zero in the long run.

 

But. When you filter out the garbage there are projects - like Ethereum - that have real value and the potential for sustainable exponential upside.

 

If you know anyone deep into crypto - especially on the tech/dev side, I suggest you buy them a coffee and ask them to explain it to you. You might have the same epiphany I did.

 

If the game has changed, kicking and screaming doesn't help. Better to learn the new rules so as not to get left behind.

---

Also, Elon's probably running game here re: Bitcoin. But even if he isn't, he doesn't actually swear off cryptocurrencies, he specifically says that he's not selling out of his Bitcoin and that Tesla is looking at other, more environmentally friendly cryptos in lieu of Bitcoin. Source article here.

[GrandPapillon]

6 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

 

There were a number of ways I thought about replying to this, but I'll try and actually be helpful this time ????.

 

So I have a pretty classic Wall Street background and was a crypto skeptic from 2016 until about half way through 2020. My skepticism was based on cryptocurrencies not fulfilling the three main conditions of money and also because the entire space seemed like a pump and dump ponzi carousel. Then, after the famous crash in 2017, I felt smug and vindicated.

 

 

sorry to say, but this story is credible as much as the next bitcoin ????

 

but good intro, and good narrative ????

Edited May 13, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[Pravda]

7 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

 

There were a number of ways I thought about replying to this, but I'll try and actually be helpful this time ????.

 

So I have a pretty classic Wall Street background and was a crypto skeptic from 2016 until about half way through 2020. My skepticism was based on cryptocurrencies not fulfilling the three main conditions of money and also because the entire space seemed like a pump and dump ponzi carousel. Then, after the famous crash in 2017, I felt smug and vindicated.

 

I had numerous friends both on the tech side and the finance side that didn't lose faith in the technology post-crash and held, or added, to positions through to the start of the current bull market. And these are very smart folks. When the bull market took off, their cheaply acquired positions printed. One of my best friends - who also happens to be way smarter than me - turned an initial investment of $10k into $3M.

 

And, over the course of 2020, I watched a lot of people do multiples while I was happy with my 40%-50% gains from timing the market post Covid-crash. And they kept doing multiples and I kept doing incremental gains. And I like money too. So and during the Game Stop event I finally relented and figured I'd at least hold my nose ride the graph. Still didn't believe in the assets at that time but...money is money.

 

So I asked three friends who were deep into crypto how they were trading and each one of them was kind enough to sit down and spend hours with me explaining the tech and space. And...it was enough to make a believer out of me, because they were able to show me specifically why some of the coins are valuable. I bought my first crypto (Eth) in the fall of 2020.

 

This post has gotten pretty long, so I'll quickly wrap it by saying that a ton of stuff in the crypto space - the memecoins and such - are probably pump and dump scams. Which doesn't mean you can't make money off them, but their intrinsic value is probably zero in the long run.

 

But. When you filter out the garbage there are projects - like Ethereum - that have real value and the potential for sustainable exponential upside.

 

If you know anyone deep into crypto - especially on the tech/dev side, I suggest you buy them a coffee and ask them to explain it to you. You might have the same epiphany I did.

 

If the game has changed, kicking and screaming doesn't help. Better to learn the new rules so as not to get left behind.

---

Also, Elon's probably running game here re: Bitcoin. But even if he isn't, he doesn't actually swear off cryptocurrencies, he specifically says that he's not selling out of his Bitcoin and that Tesla is looking at other, more environmentally friendly cryptos in lieu of Bitcoin. Source article here.

 

So you didn't explain anything and the time to read your post cost me more than a cup of coffee 

[tomazbodner]

To me, what is far more interesting in all of this is, that when it comes to stock market, a few "financial analysts'" opinion can swing the stock prices, and when it comes to cryptocurrencies, someone's tweet can move the needle to enormous proportions. When he has a good day, he tweets something totally irrelevant and gazillions are generated out of thin air. Then he has a bad day, tweets something else, and they all vanish.

 

It shows that most people are sheep, blindly following the shepherd, due to greed, not even realizing how much manipulating power some individuals have amassed through our ignorance. 

[The Cipher]

2 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

sorry to say, but this story is credible as much as the next bitcoin ????

 

but good intro, and good narrative 

 

Lol glad you enjoyed the read at least ????

 

Ultimately what people choose to believe, and their corresponding actions, are up to them. I don't really gain from posting, and over time reality sorts it all out anyway.

 

7 minutes ago, Pravda said:

So you didn't explain anything and the time to read your post cost me more than a cup of coffee 

 

Yeah it was a little long. Sorry. My goal was to try to explain that although there is a lot of junk, there actually are assets in the space with legitimate uses and values.

 

I unfortunately don't have the time (and don't believe I'm qualified) to hand hold people looking to learn. But info is out there, and project development is far enough along that real world use cases for certain cryptoassets can already be seen.

[tomazbodner]

Elon certainly upset a few people... so he's God for them when they are winning, and <deleted> when they are losing... Epic.

 

[tribalfusion001]

Another one bought off by the climate change lobby.

[phetphet]

Doesn't bother me. I don't hold Bitcoin or Dogecoin. Elon musk was only ever pumping for his own gain. The "Dogefather"? Ha Ha.

 

My small holdings are in Ethereum, Polkadot, Binance and Solana.

 

 

[GrandPapillon]

these days you are better off holding listed shares in the crypto exchanges like Coinbase, at least they are making a ton of money from the gullible crowd ????

[rumak]

54 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

59 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

what this means now is that Elton has to disclose, according to new SEC rules on ESG, the environment impact he has with his firm, and since Bitcoins had significant impact on the financial statements, he has to calculate accurately that impact.

Must be serious.  He changed his name.

maybe when he went to the John ?

[GrandPapillon]

47 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

To me, what is far more interesting in all of this is, that when it comes to stock market, a few "financial analysts'" opinion can swing the stock prices, and when it comes to cryptocurrencies, someone's tweet can move the needle to enormous proportions. When he has a good day, he tweets something totally irrelevant and gazillions are generated out of thin air. Then he has a bad day, tweets something else, and they all vanish.

 

It shows that most people are sheep, blindly following the shepherd, due to greed, not even realizing how much manipulating power some individuals have amassed through our ignorance. 

it's really like a church,

 

the crypto fans are nothing more than followers of a cult, takes a lot of faith to believe in the ultimate absolute power of cryptos

Edited May 13, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[rumak]

Just now, GrandPapillon said:

it's really like a church,

 

the crypto fans are nothing more than followers of a cult, takes a lot of faith to believe in cryptos

are they "cryptoidiots"  ?

[GrandPapillon]

2 minutes ago, rumak said:

maybe when he went to the John ?

definitely did when he thought of Bitcoins

[Why Me]

1 hour ago, The Cipher said:

 

There were a number of ways I thought about replying to this, but I'll try and actually be helpful this time ????.

 

So I have a pretty classic Wall Street background and was a crypto skeptic from 2016 until about half way through 2020. My skepticism was based on cryptocurrencies not fulfilling the three main conditions of money and also because the entire space seemed like a pump and dump ponzi carousel. Then, after the famous crash in 2017, I felt smug and vindicated.

 

I had numerous friends both on the tech side and the finance side that didn't lose faith in the technology post-crash and held, or added, to positions through to the start of the current bull market. And these are very smart folks. When the bull market took off, their cheaply acquired positions printed. One of my best friends - who also happens to be way smarter than me - turned an initial investment of $10k into $3M.

 

And, over the course of 2020, I watched a lot of people do multiples while I was happy with my 40%-50% gains from timing the market post Covid-crash. And they kept doing multiples and I kept doing incremental gains. And I like money too. So and during the Game Stop event I finally relented and figured I'd at least hold my nose ride the graph. Still didn't believe in the assets at that time but...money is money.

 

So I asked three friends who were deep into crypto how they were trading and each one of them was kind enough to sit down and spend hours with me explaining the tech and space. And...it was enough to make a believer out of me, because they were able to show me specifically why some of the coins are valuable. I bought my first crypto (Eth) in the fall of 2020.

 

This post has gotten pretty long, so I'll quickly wrap it by saying that a ton of stuff in the crypto space - the memecoins and such - are probably pump and dump scams. Which doesn't mean you can't make money off them, but their intrinsic value is probably zero in the long run.

 

But. When you filter out the garbage there are projects - like Ethereum - that have real value and the potential for sustainable exponential upside.

 

If you know anyone deep into crypto - especially on the tech/dev side, I suggest you buy them a coffee and ask them to explain it to you. You might have the same epiphany I did.

 

If the game has changed, kicking and screaming doesn't help. Better to learn the new rules so as not to get left behind.

---

Also, Elon's probably running game here re: Bitcoin. But even if he isn't, he doesn't actually swear off cryptocurrencies, he specifically says that he's not selling out of his Bitcoin and that Tesla is looking at other, more environmentally friendly cryptos in lieu of Bitcoin. Source article here.

Lordie, I always thought bitcoins have no value, except for what the next sucker wants to pay, because there is no there there. No product. No service. No nothing.

 

But this post just parted the clouds and let in the sun. Now I see. I believe. Yes. Yes.

 

[rumak]

Just now, GrandPapillon said:

definitely did when he thought of Bitcoins

 

my wish is to put the musks and the bezos and the gates and the many others in the billionaire club.................   onto a thai building site and make them mix concrete for a foundation .      Now THAT  would be a foundation i would be proud to support

[Ventenio]

Money TALKS.......  BS  walks...

 

Calling tops and bottoms makes no sense.....it's all about how much money you've made.

 

Been fully invested in the stock market since the early 90's.  FULLY invested.  That means can easily retire OUTSIDE of Thailand.  hahhahhahahahhaha.    

 

I don't care if you make 1 billion on bitcoin or if bitcoin goes to 1 million or zero...

 

question is....since we're talking about investing...is ... how have you done to become the expert?  oh, broke?  well, this is a game about making money son....

 

bitcoins will probably go WAY higher...100k easy....but whatever.  i'm not in the game, don't have to be...

 

last time i talked to a guy eating 20 baht noodle soup and he told me, "you want to know how to make 100 million?"

 

still laughing.  he walked away, in a rainstorm, without an umbrella

[gearbox]

26 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

these days you are better off holding listed shares in the crypto exchanges like Coinbase, at least they are making a ton of money from the gullible crowd ????

Spot on...don't gamble, invest in gambling companies.

[GrandPapillon]

8 minutes ago, Ventenio said:

 

last time i talked to a guy eating 20 baht noodle soup and he told me, "you want to know how to make 100 million?"

 

know that one, yeah you start with 1 billion ????

[Why Me]

I can explain crypto to you but this would involve fairly complex economic theory including that of dynamical quantum valuation based on hypergeometric calculus.

 

Now you can either wait to figure all this out and miss the bus in the process. Or get in now and put off reading till after you've made a couple of mil. Your choice.

[from the home of CC]

and Greta grinned..

[gearbox]

6 minutes ago, Why Me said:

I can explain crypto to you but this would involve fairly complex economic theory including that of dynamical quantum valuation based on hypergeometric calculus.

 

Now you can either wait to figure all this out and miss the bus in the process. Or get in now and put off reading till after you've made a couple of mil. Your choice.

 

It is easy to make money with crypto, as there is an infinite amount of suckers out there. 

 

One doesn't need complex economic theories, only some technical skills and a bit of seed cash. Dogecoin was created as a joke in no time.

 

https://en.bitcoinwiki.org/wiki/Creating_forks

 

Forks and forking of cryptocurrency

How does fork work? Bitcoin client is written in C++. To create a new cryptocurrency one has to have certain skills and abilities in programming. Changing a couple of lines of code will not get you anywhere. For example, co-founder of Dogecoin, a software engineer from Portland had to spend a few days of work to make a cryptocurrency not very different from Litecoin: the only significant changes were made to emission rate and the reward for a single block mined. Accordingly, cryptocurrencies that are significantly different from those already existing require much more time to program.

 

The co-founder of Dogecoin had to spend a few days of work to make new crypto currency ????

 

Here is a great deal - I can do a fork of Bitcoin and call it TVFcoin....anyone willing to exchange their life savings for a few coins? You'll be all millionaires in no time when TVFcoin takes off! ????

[The Cipher]

Quote

last time i talked to a guy eating 20 baht noodle soup and he told me, "you want to know how to make 100 million?" still laughing.  he walked away, in a rainstorm, without an umbrella

 

Writing is a little convoluted, but this dude is actually right.

 

Might ruffle a few feathers by saying this, but how many skeptics on Thai Visa worked a generic 9-5 for an entire career before relying on fixed-income from a pension and moderate nest-egg of a few hundred gs to retire at 65+?

 

There's nothing wrong if that's you, but if it is, are you absolutely sure that you know more than the folks who were able to scale innovative businesses, or compete effectively at tier 1 jobs on Wall Street or in Silicon Valley?

 

If you can't articulate the value proposition for something doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't one - it might actually be more a reflection on you, right? ????

 

And it is unreasonable to expect someone to write out what crypto/blockchain conceptually is, and why some coins might actually have utility, on a medium like this. There are plenty of articles that a Google search would bring up, and/or podcasts or videos that you could watch to gain a baseline understanding of the actual tech. 

 

These posts aren't even intended to entice folks to invest. I actually do not believe that high volatility, high risk assets are suitable for most retirees in Thailand trying to make their nest eggs last.

 

I just wanted to respond to the original posts' call out ????

 

 

[Susco]

2 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

what this means now is that Elton has to disclose, according to new SEC rules on ESG, the environment impact he has with his firm, and since Bitcoins had significant impact on the financial statements, he has to calculate accurately that impact.

 

2 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

other firms are going to follow, the ESG compliance risk is too high, and unless you know exactly what you are doing, and we all know nobody knows <deleted> all about bitcoins, then you are exposing yourself to future regulatory violations with Bitcoins.

 

 

And there lies the whole issue.

 

For the past 12 months or so, the crypto's had been rising from their deathbed, where they had ended up, on the news of one or another institutional had relocated 1% of their portfolio to crypto.

 

Musk is of course not an idiot and see the sign on the wall, because the environment issue that mining creates has been making headlines in the past few months, and more and more influencers have been jumping on that ship.

 

So what will happen to the value of crypto's when the news about firms adding crypto to their payment options reverses?

[Airalee]

Any investment where the person tries to convince me by either belittling me, using FOMO, extrapolating future performance from past returns or any kind of vague gobbledygook it something I want no part of.