Procurement of Pfizer, Moderna, J&J urged to cope with South African strain

[bluedoc]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

He noted that both AstraZeneca and Sinovac, the two main vaccines in use in the country, are ineffective against the South African variant, with the efficacy of AstraZeneca being shown to drop to just 10.4%.

THAI ENQUIRER, 24/5/2021

Thailand has ordered millions of doses of Sinovac, which enjoys the dubious honor of being perhaps the most doubted vaccine brand in the world.

Its reputation has been butchered in the international press. It has yet to be approved by the World Health Organization. Many Thais make no secret of their fear and derision. Some loudly declare they refuse to take it. One Twitter user told me that it is equivalent to death: hyperbole, to be sure, but reflective of the general mood. 

And this mood is now fueling a more generalized vaccine hesitancy — a desire to delay getting a vaccination even as Thailand’s mass vaccination campaign steps into high gear next month, in favor of waiting for an alternative choice later in the year

[connda]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

A senior doctor, at Siriraj Centre of Research Excellence Management, is urging the government to procure the Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccines quickly, in preparation for the possible spread of the South African variant in southern Thailand.

This isn't about public health.  If it was about the welfare of the public then the government would be making the procurement of additional makes of vaccine a top priority and making a lot of noise about it in the press.
Instead?  The financial interests of those promoting AZ and Coronavac would seem to be the top priority - the public be da*med.

[BusyB]

8 hours ago, mortem said:

For the ones who don't know where is coming from the efficacy number of 10.4% of AZ vaccine against the SA variant, and are spreading stupid comments such as those number are coming from unverified sources such as FB, please find below the source:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2102214

 

S. Africa ditched its AZ vaccines because it was as bad as useless against the variant prevalent in the country.

The variant that's just entered down south in LOS.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-02/s-africa-concludes-sale-of-astrazeneca-shots-to-african-union

[connda]

10 hours ago, faraday said:

I have difficulty keeping up with all these 'variants of concern', the Dr's opinion - which it often seems to be, & a plethora of signs & symptoms.

 

Look at this title from the linked BBC piece- I almost thought it was a joke:

 

"How are the mutants behaving?"

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55659820

 

Anyway, to focus my post more "on topic" please see below a link to the BHF about all the variants;

 

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/covid-variant#SAdeadly

 

This time next year will most likely see rolling lockdowns and Covid restrictions like mandatory mask-wearing continue throughout Thailand as the War On Covid-Variants replaces the War On Covid-19. 
The population will need quarterly mRNA vaccinations to keep up with the newly arriving, ever multiplying variants which vaccines based on inactive viruses and even adenovirus vector technology can not keep up with as far as effectiveness against the mutations. 
However, Thailand will maintain it's insistence on protecting the financial interests of stakeholders of the AZ and Sinovac vaccines while minimizing the importation of vaccines which are highly effective against variants but pose financial competition to the entrenched interests of certain individuals and corporations.
Those countries which embrace mRNA technology and allow it importation will remain "open" and will economically prosper while those countries (especially third world and developing countries) who either do not have access to the mRNA technology or chose to place roadblocks in the way of their importation and use will remain "closed" and will economically languish.  Corporations with intellectual property rights for the mRNA vaccination will not waive their rights for the betterment of humanity because this is after all about profits and revenue streams nor will governments force them to waive the rights and large 'campaign contributions' will continue to flow like an undammed river into the pockets of those making the laws. 
Ain't this a money maker and then some.

[tifino]

and when they begin the never ending MRNA morphed into another MRNA morphed into another MRNA etc etc

 - it is akin to a country sized Hospital embattled with accepting that penicillin resistant Gonorrhea - will never be beaten because of the endless wholesale treatments of the past... 

[placeholder]

31 minutes ago, connda said:

The population will need quarterly mRNA vaccinations to keep up with the newly arriving, ever multiplying variants which vaccines based on inactive viruses and even adenovirus vector technology can not keep up with as far as effectiveness against the mutations

There is no evidence at all to support this contention and plenty of evidence that shows otherwise.

[cclub75]

8 hours ago, mortem said:

For the ones who don't know where is coming from the efficacy number of 10.4% of AZ vaccine against the SA variant, and are spreading stupid comments such as those number are coming from unverified sources such as FB, please find below the source:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2102214

 

Indeed. Thanks for the link

 

But then you have to admit that this study is... inconclusive.

 

Why ?

 

They write it themselves ! ????

 

"the trial findings are inconclusive with respect to whether the ChAdOx1 nCov-19 vaccine may protect against severe Covid-19 caused by infection with the B.1.351 variant."

 

The point is : their efficacy calculations are for... "mild-to-moderate Covid-19"... which is pointless.

 

The target of all vaccines is to prevent... severe cases !

 

"In this trial, we found that two doses of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine had no efficacy against the B.1.351 variant in preventing mild-to-moderate Covid-19. There were no cases of hospitalization for severe Covid-19 observed in the study."

 

And then you start to wonder... they had no hospitalization of "severe cases" during the study...None. How come ? We are talking about the terrible "south african strain" !

 

Then you look at the exclusions criterias, it means the way they selected the participants...

 

Link : https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2102214/suppl_file/nejmoa2102214_appendix.pdf

 

It's a joke. They removed everything that could make the participant fragile... AKA a target for Covid !

-History of cancer

-Chronic respiratory diseases

-Chronic disease inclusive of: a) hypertension if ≥Grade 2 based on DAIDS AE Grading Version 2.1-July 2017; b) congestive heart failure; c) chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.....

-Seriously overweight(BMI ≥ 40Kg/m2)

..... [the list continues on and on]

 

And then the participants : "The median age of the participants was 30 years" (!!!) (from 18 to 65 years old)

 

To summarize.

 

To study the efficacy of a vaccine against Covid... you select very young people, without any health issue...

 

It makes perfect sense... ????

 

It's a reminder : beware of all thoses "studies"...

 

Real life is way, way different...

[placnx]

51 minutes ago, cclub75 said:

"the trial findings are inconclusive with respect to whether the ChAdOx1 nCov-19 vaccine may protect against severe Covid-19 caused by infection with the B.1.351 variant."

 

The point is : their efficacy calculations are for... "mild-to-moderate Covid-19"... which is pointless.

 

The target of all vaccines is to prevent... severe cases !

 

"In this trial, we found that two doses of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine had no efficacy against the B.1.351 variant in preventing mild-to-moderate Covid-19. There were no cases of hospitalization for severe Covid-19 observed in the study."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2102214

(see Discussion - first paragraph)

This is a good report, but you cherry pick the conclusions. They rightly look at different aspects. Preventing excessive hospitalizations is important, but so is preventing mild disease since stopping transmission is an ultimate goal. That data on severe cases was "inconclusive" was caused by no such cases arising in either vaccinated or placebo groups. It is not unusual to exclude groups with specific conditions in such a small study, since it would introduce additional factors that would make statistically valid analysis impossible. It is interesting to see how a relatively young cohort is affected as well.

 

The inference is that AZ should be upgraded ASAP, since stopping the spread of the new variants is an important objective.

Edited May 24, 2021 by placnx
add link

[bangon04]

"He noted that both AstraZeneca and Sinovac, the two main vaccines in use in the country, are ineffective against the South African variant, with the efficacy of AstraZeneca being shown to drop to just 10.4%."

 

At least now the good doctor and the General can Zoom call Germany and inform the owner of Siam Biosciences that he is wasting his time and money preparing to mnufacture the AZ vaccine because nobody wants / trusts it any more.... That should be a fun conversation.....

[thesetat2013]

13 hours ago, placeholder said:

There is no evidence at all to support this contention and plenty of evidence that shows otherwise.

Sure there is. The Thai government has offered my wife ( a government worker) to get her vaccine free being offered now. However, they have informed her that within 6 months she will need a booster vaccine also. Given this detail makes it clear to see that the Thai gov knows it's vaccine is not effective and is already making plans to have their people revaccinated at a later date.

[MrJ2U]

On 5/24/2021 at 4:33 AM, sammieuk1 said:

Another world renowned Dr quoting ridiculously low AZ figures from where? facebook probably. note to self must tell Boris  ????   

 

[MrJ2U]

On 5/24/2021 at 6:40 AM, wasabi said:

It is time Thailand admitted they need the Farang manufactured vaccines (and Farang tourists) However probably very little of both available til well into next year.

Never happen with that Idiot Anutin calling the shots and vying for construction contracts from China at the expense of Thailands population.

 

 

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, thesetat2013 said:

Sure there is. The Thai government has offered my wife ( a government worker) to get her vaccine free being offered now. However, they have informed her that within 6 months she will need a booster vaccine also. Given this detail makes it clear to see that the Thai gov knows it's vaccine is not effective and is already making plans to have their people revaccinated at a later date.

The reference in the post I was commenting on was about mRNA vaccines. Is the Thai govt. offering your wife one of those?

Also, in that post it was asserted that inoculations would be needed on a quarterly basis. I did a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation and I think that 1/4 of 12 (months) = 3.

And it's interesting, that, if, in fact, what you are saying is true about what the Thai govt says, why is it that you trust its evaluation over that of so many other nations with far more sophisticated and extensive research facilities?