Votes for life’ for British citizens living abroad

[British Consular Team]

Positive news from the UK government on their plans for 'Votes for life' for British citizens living abroad.

• British citizens who have moved abroad will be given ‘votes for life’ as the Government scraps the arbitrary 15-year limit on the voting rights.
• New measures announced will also make it easier for overseas electors to remain registered to vote for longer.
• Together, these changes will empower more British citizens living overseas to participate in our democracy.

 

Please visit this page for more information: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/votes-for-life-for-british-citizens-living-abroad

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been reported and removed. 

[Thailand]

Perhaps we could now vote for the party that will unfreeze our pensions?

[LongTimeLurker]

Don't fall for this one guys.

 

It's a way for them to establish that you maintain a connection to UK and are then liable for Inheritance Tax.

 

Why would I want to vote in a country that I haven't lived in for 40 years?

[jayboy]

On 5/28/2021 at 2:45 PM, LongTimeLurker said:

 

Why would I want to vote in a country that I haven't lived in for 40 years?

 

The answer is in the press release:

 

"In an increasingly global and connected world, most British citizens living overseas retain deep ties to the United Kingdom. Many still have family here, have a history of hard work in the UK behind them, and some have even fought for our country."

 

Actually many of us on this forum are going to be ineligible having been off the electoral for more than 15 years.

 

To be honest, though the gesture is appreciated it's mostly window dressing.There is no serious interest on the part of the UK government in representing the interests of British expatriates except when there's a serious or life threatening issue. The contrast with France is illuminating where expatriates round the world are divided into 11 constituencies, each one voting a member to the national parliament in Paris.

[rickudon]

My issue with this is that a postal vote just isn't practical from Thailand. i tried once and the vote form arrived in Thailand after election day ☹️.

If they are serious they need to allow on-line voting.

[Excel]

Well let's see how long it takes to get thro parliament and actually become law.

[OJAS]

 

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

There is no serious interest on the part of the UK government in representing the interests of British expatriates except when there's a serious or life threatening issue. 

 

On the contrary, I have come to the conclusion that their sole and avowed aim is to make life for us expats living in Thailand as difficult as is humanly possible - in which task they are, of course, being eagerly aided and abetted by their Thai counterparts. As well as frozen pensions, the following measures which have all been inflicted on us over the past 20 years or so spring to mind:-

 

(1) Cessation of the Embassy's income confirmation service.

 

(2) An antediluvian passport renewal system which requires us, regardless of our state of health (unless we are prepared to shell out a fortune over and above official renewal costs for an agent to do the necessary), (a) to deliver paper applications in person to a frequently distant office in Bangkok or Chiang Mai, and (b) collect our new passports in person from said office a few weeks later once HMPO have sent them over from the UK.

 

(3) A cumbersomely bureaucratic life certificate witnessing process for those of us in receipt of a State Pension (to add insult to injury to this being frozen) - which, if performed strictly in accordance with the DWP rule book (i.e. on a physical face-to-face basis with your witnesser), in effect requires the witnessing function to be performed by a Thai national "of suitable standing", whose grasp of the English language tends to be minimal at best. And then we are required to rely on the snail mail system in order to secure receipt of the witnessed certificate by DWP within a set deadline if our pension payments are not to be stopped (no question of emailed certificates being deemed acceptable for some ridiculous reason!).

 

[Eff1n2ret]

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

Actually many of us on this forum are going to be ineligible having been off the electoral for more than 15 years.

The qualification under the present arrangements is the Parliamentary constituency where you were last registered to vote. I have maintained my right to vote since I left the UK 11 years ago, and this is renewed every year following a reminder (by email) from the the local authority. Presumably they will extend the criterion beyond 15 years for anyone who chooses to apply. The application process is quite easy, but I guess if someone has been out of the UK for donkey's years their local authority records might not be up to tracing them. What happens in that case I don't know - but the chief agitator for this change has been a 90+ year old living in Italy for a very long time, so most authorities should be able to cope.

 

As pointed out in another post, voting by post from Thailand doesn't work, you have to use a proxy. If you have no relatives or friends that you trust back in Blighty, that's a bit sad. Your proxy doesn't have to live in the constituency or vote in person. My son votes for me by post.

[LongTimeLurker]

On 5/30/2021 at 8:50 AM, jayboy said:

The answer is in the press release:

 

"In an increasingly global and connected world, most British citizens living overseas retain deep ties to the United Kingdom. Many still have family here, have a history of hard work in the UK behind them, and some have even fought for our country."

 

None of them apply to me.

[LongTimeLurker]

On 5/30/2021 at 10:26 AM, rickudon said:

My issue with this is that a postal vote just isn't practical from Thailand. i tried once and the vote form arrived in Thailand after election day ☹️.

If they are serious they need to allow on-line voting.

 

Maybe the Embassy should distribute the vote forms internally then?

[blackcab]

A comment on moderation and replies to that post have been removed.

[Eff1n2ret]

On 5/31/2021 at 2:59 PM, LongTimeLurker said:

 

Maybe the Embassy should distribute the vote forms internally then?

What "Vote forms"? You can only vote in the constituency where you were last registered, so your ballot paper can only come from the relevant local authority. In practice, would using the Embassy as a postman really be much quicker? And local postal deliveries round my way are virtually non-existent. I haven't had any mail for two months. The only practical way to vote from here is to have a proxy, and that works well enough for me.

[LongTimeLurker]

22 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

What "Vote forms"? You can only vote in the constituency where you were last registered, so your ballot paper can only come from the relevant local authority. In practice, would using the Embassy as a postman really be much quicker? And local postal deliveries round my way are virtually non-existent. I haven't had any mail for two months. The only practical way to vote from here is to have a proxy, and that works well enough for me.

 

If they want to provide a reliable service I'm sure they can figure out an efficient way to do it.

 

"IF"

[theoldgit]

43 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 

If they want to provide a reliable service I'm sure they can figure out an efficient way to do it.

 

"IF"

 

There are well over six hundred constituencies in the UK and many more councils, for any Embassy in the world to act as a postal service to receive and return votes from possibly all of these would be a logistical, and unnecessary nighmare within the timeframe prescribed by law.

Like member @Eff1n2retsays, the proxy system works pretty well.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

On 6/4/2021 at 3:57 PM, theoldgit said:

 

There are well over six hundred constituencies in the UK and many more councils, for any Embassy in the world to act as a postal service to receive and return votes from possibly all of these would be a logistical, and unnecessary nighmare within the timeframe prescribed by law.

Like member @Eff1n2retsays, the proxy system works pretty well.

 

email the forms to any voters registered with the Embassy and the voters can send them to their own constituency by registered/EMS mail themselves.

[OJAS]

On 7/19/2021 at 3:09 PM, LongTimeLurker said:

email the forms to any voters registered with the Embassy and the voters can send them to their own constituency by registered/EMS mail themselves.

So what you appear to be suggesting is the following process:-

 

(1) Local councils serving constituencies in which overseas voters are registered send the forms by snail mail to the Embassy.

 

(2) Embassy then scans these forms and email the scans to individual voters

 

(3) Voters print off the forms and place an "X" in a place of their choosing on the voting form.

 

(4) Voters then send their completed voting form back to the UK by registered mail or EMS.

 

I really don't see this as being practicable. For a start, scanning forms prior to an election, as per (2), would be a truly GINORMOUS task for the Embassy bearing in mind that there are, I gather, several thousands of registered overseas voters living in Thailand. And the ball would need to be set rolling, as per (1), at least 3 months prior to an election date. I gather that the standard acceptable practice is for these forms to be not sent out to overseas voters from the UK until no earlier than a fortnight beforehand.

 

As others have already said, i think that we shall just have to live with the "proxy" system (which also works for me) until such time as the relevant powers-that-be back in the UK decide to "electronify" the voting process.

 

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Never tell anyone in uk, except trusted close family, or uk embassy unless strictly necessary, about your overseas location, property, family, business or mobile phone number......do not vote by proxy in uk elections.

 

operate all uk business as if you are living in uk, including all govt / bank document renewals, using uk mailing address, uk bank accounts & online transactions.

 

vfs “local service” nonsense ( agents allowed .....to counter passport fraud... riiiight....I mean seriously ?), and retirement visa process, is used to reveal large numbers of uk citizens with overseas financial interests in particular countries. possibly for future pension cuts / freezes ( Australia already doing this) or tax demands or calls for govt. service.......

 

no such concealment possible though if thai govt. decides to reveal your presence here to uk govt. using thai residence reg. records......

 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

13 hours ago, OJAS said:

So what you appear to be suggesting is the following process:-

 

(1) Local councils serving constituencies in which overseas voters are registered send the forms by snail mail to the Embassy.

 

(2) Embassy then scans these forms and email the scans to individual voters

 

(3) Voters print off the forms and place an "X" in a place of their choosing on the voting form.

 

(4) Voters then send their completed voting form back to the UK by registered mail or EMS.

 

I really don't see this as being practicable. For a start, scanning forms prior to an election, as per (2), would be a truly GINORMOUS task for the Embassy bearing in mind that there are, I gather, several thousands of registered overseas voters living in Thailand. And the ball would need to be set rolling, as per (1), at least 3 months prior to an election date. I gather that the standard acceptable practice is for these forms to be not sent out to overseas voters from the UK until no earlier than a fortnight beforehand.

 

As others have already said, i think that we shall just have to live with the "proxy" system (which also works for me) until such time as the relevant powers-that-be back in the UK decide to "electronify" the voting process.

 

 

1. Do the local councils not have email? or the Embassy? And why would the form have to come from each voters individual councils. One generic form covers all and the voter fills in the name of the ward / constituency he is registered in for voting.

 

2. Why scan forms that have been generated electronically and received by email?

 

You got 3 & 4 right at least.

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

1. Do the local councils not have email? or the Embassy? And why would the form have to come from each voters individual councils. One generic form covers all and the voter fills in the name of the ward / constituency he is registered in for voting.

I don’t know about your ballot papers, but mine always have the candidates for election printed on them.

So if your suggested system was implemented and the individual constituencies or wards didn’t send out the ballot papers, how would you expect the voter to know the names of the candidates on this generic form?

[LongTimeLurker]

22 hours ago, theoldgit said:

I don’t know about your ballot papers, but mine always have the candidates for election printed on them.

So if your suggested system was implemented and the individual constituencies or wards didn’t send out the ballot papers, how would you expect the voter to know the names of the candidates on this generic form?

We have this new technology now called "The World Wide Web"

[LongTimeLurker]

3 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

We have this new technology now called "The World Wide Web"

Expanding on this new fangled World Wide Web invention, can't the local councils just upload their ballot papers to the WWW and then those that want to postal vote can print it off, fill it in and post it?

 

Cuts out the Embassies in all the countries in the world then.

 

Where there's a will and all that.

[Eff1n2ret]

22 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Expanding on this new fangled World Wide Web invention, can't the local councils just upload their ballot papers to the WWW and then those that want to postal vote can print it off, fill it in and post it?

 

Cuts out the Embassies in all the countries in the world then.

 

Where there's a will and all that.

Mr Putin and the manipulators, sorry, "Leaders" of certain "ethnic communities" would love that.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

Mr Putin and the manipulators, sorry, "Leaders" of certain "ethnic communities" would love that.

I don't think Mr Putin is registered to vote in my local constituency.

 

And they don't have a Communist Party candidate anyway,

[Polar Bear]

I am still within the 15 year limit, so I can still vote. I have a relative who sends a postal proxy for me. Every year, I jump through their hoops and fill in their 9 page document to stay registered. However, as far as I know, I have never successfully voted. Electoral services mess it up every time.

 

I get confirmation beforehand that they have my proxy's info and will send them a postal vote, and then they send it to me instead. Or they send a postal vote in my name to my proxy. Or they send my proxy a ballot, but have her info wrong. For the last general election, they sent out 5 different forms in the end, all of them were wrong. We ran out of time to get another one, so they told her to just correct the information, and send the form back with a note explaining what had happened. In response, she got a letter back saying she was being investigated for voter fraud for changing the information on a ballot.

 

Luckily, I had followed up the final phone conversation with an email confirming what had been agreed (which they never acknowledged), but at least I had a record of it. 

 

If they don't simplify it considerably, I'm giving up. I don't think it's fair to put someone else through the hassle every time.

[theoldgit]

5 hours ago, Polar Bear said:

I am still within the 15 year limit, so I can still vote. I have a relative who sends a postal proxy for me. Every year, I jump through their hoops and fill in their 9 page document to stay registered. However, as far as I know, I have never successfully voted. Electoral services mess it up every time.

 

I on the other hand get an email from my old council every year asking if there is any change in my circumstances and do I want to continue with my proxy, a simple yes or no response is all that is required.

 

My proxy vote is delivered to a friend for every election or vote and, save for the fact that my vote wasn't sufficicient to stop us crashing out of the EU, it's worked seamlessly and without a hitch.

[Eff1n2ret]

I've just had a message from an acquaintance who contacted the MP for the constituency in which he lived for many years, and voted for by proxy in 2019, regarding a particular issue. This was the reply he received:-

Unfortunately, as you are no longer resident in the UK nor my constituent and due to parliamentary protocol I am unable to help any further than point you in the right direction

The underlining is mine. One questions whether it's worth bothering to vote if that's the attitude of those who get elected. Sir Roger Gale MP is an honourable exception, who does take up expat matters. The above MP is another example, I'm afraid, demonstrating that in the eyes of many back home we are second class citizens. We pay tax for no representation.

[Daffy D]

2 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

Unfortunately, as you are no longer resident in the UK nor my constituent and due to parliamentary protocol I am unable to help any further than point you in the right direction

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Eff1n2ret]

5 hours ago, Daffy D said:

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

Why? The Parliamentary system is based on constituencies, and if you vote in one you are de facto a constituent, which that particular MP prefers not to acknowledge. "..point you in the right direction" means "you're on your own, pal."