A closer look at Sinopharm, Thailand’s first alternative vaccine

[rbkk]

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Do they  have Moderna and if so where.  PM me the details if positive they have the vaccine

 

How would you protect yourself from the fake vaccines I've read that are now available!

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

5 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You're right, your post was formed in the manner of a question but it was really just emphasising those alleged efficiency figures.

 

"so if a first jab of vaccines give say 60% protection that would not make a difference if the recipients were to contract Covid".

I don't really understand what that question means, "not make a difference" to what? 

 

Either way, I've no idea, I'm not a virologist or epidemiologist but my understanding is that the 2-dose vaccines are not considered effective until the second dose has been given, i.e. if there's no 2nd dose, the first dose would be redundant. 

 

 

Expand  

Actually no. In fact, there's been a lot of debate among epidemiologists whether it would have made more sense to inoculate as many people as possible with the first dose before proceding to the second. This highlights the difference between a public health care model and an individual health care model. Proponents of the former claim that trying to inoculate as many people as possible with 1 dose would save more lives than inoculating people on the standard 2 dose schedule. Of course, this also would depend on how potent the first does of each vaccine is.

Actually, yes, to what I said.

 

Maybe you didn't read what I posted but if the two-dose vaccine was completely effective after only one dose there'd be no reason to insist that everyone needs two.

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Yes I understand that's standard advice for all the vaccines...you can still catch the virus but any case of Covid is usually mild (and almost no deaths).

 

Actually now that they are starting to have data on this, it is turning out that the risk of transmitting COVID drops significantly in vaccinated people (as one would expect). That is why US CDC not longer recommends masks for vaccinated people.

 

This data was not available initially hence at first the advice was to continue precautions.

 

 

 

 

[Lemonltr]

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Actually now that they are starting to have data on this, it is turning out that the risk of transmitting COVID drops significantly in vaccinated people (as one would expect). That is why US CDC not longer recommends masks for vaccinated people.

 

This data was not available initially hence at first the advice was to continue precautions.

 

 

 

 

There is hard data over many months and well  over a hundred million doses from Israel. Uk and the USA. 

Conclusion is that vaccines used in these countries result in only asymptomatic or mild disease and if infected the amount of virus in the throat and nose is very low and therefore much less transmitable 

[Deli]

8 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Mr Anuntin, health minister, did not have the slightest idea until reading the news.

 

He might feel pixxed off a bit

[Deli]

8 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

Nothing from the Chinese is free. 

 

. 

 

Wrong, They gave us the Virus, we didn't even had to ask for it.

[club]

16 hours ago, rbkk said:

No. Not here in Thailand. In another thread here the prof. from the importers of Sinopharm said 1000 baht a dose (Insurance included) against Pfizer (insurance included)2000 baht a dose. Also Pfizer could arrive in August but will all the doses be kept for the minors and school kids?

here we go. Link.  https://www.thaipbsworld.com/a-closer-look-at-sinopharm-thailands-first-alternative-vaccine/

Thai PBS is told what to say by the Thai government   https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sinopharm-to-charge-110-for-worlds-most-expensive-vaccine-np63cg23t 

[placeholder]

14 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Actually, yes, to what I said.

 

Maybe you didn't read what I posted but if the two-dose vaccine was completely effective after only one dose there'd be no reason to insist that everyone needs two.

Here is what you wrote:

"With a two-jab vaccine the effectiveness after the first jab is irrelevant, it could be 0% and it wouldn't matter, it's the second one that completes the inoculation."

"I'm not a virologist or epidemiologist but my understanding is that the 2-dose vaccines are not considered effective until the second dose has been given, i.e. if there's no 2nd dose, the first dose would be redundant. "

 

Did you read what I wrote? Namely that from a public health standpoint, many public health expert were arguing that even though on an individual basis 2 doses are more effective for those vaccines that are injected twice, as far as total lives saved goes, it may be more effective to give as many people as possible one dose before proceeding to the second..

This is why the UK lengthened the time between 1st and 2nd doses in the early days of vaccination, Better to give as many as possible 1 dose before giving them the 2nd. 

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by placeholder

[bobbin]

20 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

I'm not really very enthusiastic about any of the current options here for vaccines or the people behind each one. I'd like to wait for the Moderna or J&J to become available as often seems that everyone here is being coerced into taking the Chinese vaccines/cheap knock-off local versions for less than straight-up reasons. Another reason is that when travel becomes more easy, who's to say we won't have to have had an approved vaccine by the destination country. Can't shake the feeling that that could be a problem in the future.

 

On top of that, it seems that some highly credible reseachers and award-winning scientists are about to publish proof that the Covid virus isn't from nature and has to have been manipulated in a lab, with accusations the Chinese were up to something called "Gain of Function" research, which Obama banned for a while during his presidency due to how dangerous it is. Part of the evidence has something to do with how many amino acids are present within the virus and their configuration in a row. The amino acids are all positively charged and the reason it's so infectious is because the human cell parts they attach to are negatively charged. But, the caveat is, these positively charged amino acids normally repel each other and it is highly unlikely to even find 3 positively charged ones in a row in natural organisms ... and the laws of physics rule out the possiblility of 4 in a row unless manipulated in a lab. Also, there seems to be evidence of cover-up attempts to retro-engineer the virus to make it look like it came from nature too.

 

All looking a bit damning for the CCP. Many people thought this was the case but it looks like some strong evidence is going to come to light in the next few days. I won't be taking their vaccines if I can avoid it, even if I have to hold up at home until Moderna/J&J etc. finally arrives. The CCP couldn't lie straight in bed. Only fly in the ointment is if Immigration Department links visa approval to being vaccinated.
 

J and J uses the same chimpanzee adenovirus technique as AZ, and also has the same clotting problem

[EricTh]

15 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Do they  have Moderna and if so where.  PM me the details if positive they have the vaccine

 

Are you staying in Chiang Mai? The hospital is in Chiang Mai

[RocketDog]

22 hours ago, mistral53 said:

Slow day today.......just a few of the China bashers on duty? I expected at least 25 pages about 'China-bad' comments within the hour............lol

F*eces is an alternative word for s*it too.

I'm glad to oblige.

Happy now?

[rbkk]

6 hours ago, club said:

Thai PBS is told what to say by the Thai government   https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sinopharm-to-charge-110-for-worlds-most-expensive-vaccine-np63cg23t 

Yes, but.......The price quoted in your link(Equivalent roughly 2500 baht/dose) is taken from August 2020 well before the vaccine was even available. Might I suggest that the negative press about the price and the Thai /Chinese relationship, as well as economies of scale, competitors entering the market, have now brought the price down to 40%=1000/dose in June 2021?

 

Also, the <deleted> dung(!)has started to hit the fan again about Wuhan and the origins of Covid. Fire-sale time at a 60% discount (+potential 20 Million doses future order) seems to make business sense. Many people will not touch a Chinese vaccine; me included. That number will surely rise.

Edited May 30, 2021 by rbkk

[Dragonboat Ronin]

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Actually now that they are starting to have data on this, it is turning out that the risk of transmitting COVID drops significantly in vaccinated people (as one would expect). That is why US CDC not longer recommends masks for vaccinated people.

 

 

 

 

Is there any data to indicate whether this reduction in transmission is characteristic of all the different vaccines? I see many folks posting statistics indicating more favorable outcomes for some countries vs others, and those outcomes are often attributed to the particular vaccines used in those nations, leading to claims of which vaccines are more/less effective. This begs the question: is it possible that some vaccines are both effective at reducing the death/severity of the virus and reducing the spread, while other vaccines may only be effective at reducing death/severity? If so then this may (in part) explain ongoing spread in some nations that had high level vaccination with certain brands compared to other nations that used different brands but did not have high spread (note: i recognize there are many other factors in play influencing viral spread, particularly political & strategic). What i am ultimately getting at is this: if a vaccine is effective at reducing death/severity but is not effective at reducing spread, then even while we may initially feel the danger of Sars CoV2 is defeated, the fact it can still spread gives it ongoing opportunity to mutate - which hence gives ongoing opportunity to ultimately overcome the vaccine. Such a vaccine then becomes only a temporary solution when examining the larger picture.

[Sheryl]

39 minutes ago, Dragonboat Ronin said:

Is there any data to indicate whether this reduction in transmission is characteristic of all the different vaccines? I see many folks posting statistics indicating more favorable outcomes for some countries vs others, and those outcomes are often attributed to the particular vaccines used in those nations, leading to claims of which vaccines are more/less effective. This begs the question: is it possible that some vaccines are both effective at reducing the death/severity of the virus and reducing the spread, while other vaccines may only be effective at reducing death/severity? If so then this may (in part) explain ongoing spread in some nations that had high level vaccination with certain brands compared to other nations that used different brands but did not have high spread (note: i recognize there are many other factors in play influencing viral spread, particularly political & strategic). What i am ultimately getting at is this: if a vaccine is effective at reducing death/severity but is not effective at reducing spread, then even while we may initially feel the danger of Sars CoV2 is defeated, the fact it can still spread gives it ongoing opportunity to mutate - which hence gives ongoing opportunity to ultimately overcome the vaccine. Such a vaccine then becomes only a temporary solution when examining the larger picture.

 

it has only been studied for some vaccines.

 

Obviously, to the extent that a vaccine prevents infection altogether,  it also prevents spread.  We do not have data -- at least yet -- on how effectively the various vaccines prevent infection with the virus, only on how effectively they prevent symptomatic infection because that was the dependent variable in the clinical trials (it would be difficult and expensive to measure effect in infection as you'd have to test every single person in both control and intervention groups).  It would be reasonable to expect, however, that vaccines with higher effectiveness in preventing symptomatic infection also have higher effectiveness in preventing any infection, compares to other vaccines.

 

What has started to be known is the extent to which people who become infected despite being vaccinated spread the disease to others, and the results indicate that they seldom do so.  The reduced severity of infection in vaccinated people is accompanied by a much shorter duration of infection and less infectivity.

 

While thsi has been studied only in some vaccines once would expect this to be true of all though to a lesser extent in the case of those that are less effective.

 

 

 

However

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, rbkk said:

Yes, but.......The price quoted in your link(Equivalent roughly 2500 baht/dose) is taken from August 2020 well before the vaccine was even available. Might I suggest that the negative press about the price and the Thai /Chinese relationship, as well as economies of scale, competitors entering the market, have now brought the price down to 40%=1000/dose in June 2021?

 

Also, the <deleted> dung(!)has started to hit the fan again about Wuhan and the origins of Covid. Fire-sale time at a 60% discount (+potential 20 Million doses future order) seems to make business sense. Many people will not touch a Chinese vaccine; me included. That number will surely rise.

I agree that lots of people may not take Sinopharm or Sinova because of allegations about the origins of the virus. Even it proved true, what has that to do with the usefulness of these vaccines? Something even more contagious than Covid19 is irrationality.

[rbkk]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

I agree that lots of people may not take Sinopharm or Sinova because of allegations about the origins of the virus. Even it proved true, what has that to do with the usefulness of these vaccines? Something even more contagious than Covid19 is irrationality.

Many people are making a rational choice to wait for one of the better vaccines. Trust is the issue.

[JamieM]

On 5/29/2021 at 7:14 AM, MajorTom said:

 

There is however a town in Brazil that used the sinovac with good results. 

 

 

I wonder how long it will be until the officials in the town announce they have done a very expensive deal for a new railway that they don't need? ????

 

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by JamieM

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, rbkk said:

Many people are making a rational choice to wait for one of the better vaccines. Trust is the issue.

Trust about what exactly? The vaccine has been through huge trials by now. Independent of the parent company or the Chinese govt. How much better are the other vaccines? As far as preventing hospitalization or death the best a vaccine can do is 100%, They don't fall much short of that. And it doesn't seem like there's any reason not to take another vaccine when the opportunity arises.

From what I've seen posted in this forum and onother, the animus seems to stem from anger at the Chinese govt. What's that got to do with the effectiveness of the vaccines?

[shdmn]

On 5/28/2021 at 10:10 PM, mistral53 said:

Slow day today.......just a few of the China bashers on duty? I expected at least 25 pages about 'China-bad' comments within the hour............lol

I'm sure it will pick up.  They are nothing if not persistent. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by shdmn

[shdmn]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Trust about what exactly? The vaccine has been through huge trials by now. Independent of the parent company or the Chinese govt. How much better are the other vaccines? As far as preventing hospitalization or death the best a vaccine can do is 100%, They don't fall much short of that. And it doesn't seem like there's any reason not to take another vaccine when the opportunity arises.

From what I've seen posted in this forum and onother, the animus seems to stem from anger at the Chinese govt. What's that got to do with the effectiveness of the vaccines?

Pfff, they have only given out a few hundred million shots over several months.  So hardly enough to draw any conclusions ...????

Edited May 30, 2021 by shdmn

[alyx]

On 5/29/2021 at 1:09 PM, Sir Dude said:

I'm not really very enthusiastic about any of the current options here for vaccines or the people behind each one. I'd like to wait for the Moderna or J&J to become available as often seems that everyone here is being coerced into taking the Chinese vaccines/cheap knock-off local versions for less than straight-up reasons. Another reason is that when travel becomes more easy, who's to say we won't have to have had an approved vaccine by the destination country. Can't shake the feeling that that could be a problem in the future.

 

On top of that, it seems that some highly credible reseachers and award-winning scientists are about to publish proof that the Covid virus isn't from nature and has to have been manipulated in a lab, with accusations the Chinese were up to something called "Gain of Function" research, which Obama banned for a while during his presidency due to how dangerous it is. Part of the evidence has something to do with how many amino acids are present within the virus and their configuration in a row. The amino acids are all positively charged and the reason it's so infectious is because the human cell parts they attach to are negatively charged. But, the caveat is, these positively charged amino acids normally repel each other and it is highly unlikely to even find 3 positively charged ones in a row in natural organisms ... and the laws of physics rule out the possiblility of 4 in a row unless manipulated in a lab. Also, there seems to be evidence of cover-up attempts to retro-engineer the virus to make it look like it came from nature too.

 

All looking a bit damning for the CCP. Many people thought this was the case but it looks like some strong evidence is going to come to light in the next few days. I won't be taking their vaccines if I can avoid it, even if I have to hold up at home until Moderna/J&J etc. finally arrives. The CCP couldn't lie straight in bed. Only fly in the ointment is if Immigration Department links visa approval to being vaccinated.
 

Not doubting your sources, neither taking sides, although I am all in for the Janssen ( because:  it is a single shot, it is recognised elsewhere and I want to move around as freely and as fast as possible in the coming weeks ) nor venturing any educated guess but...if that really originated from there, and it was manipulated....don't you think they would be the best at producing a vaccine  based on the first hand information they have on the virus, which would undeniably be the first Made in China high quality product lasting so long and famed all over the world.

 

[ekamaihouse]

I'm 51 and had the 'SinoPharm' jab, both shots here in Shanghai. No issues and extremely well organised by the government - took about 10 minutes - paid 100 Yuan for each shot.

[Artisi]

On 5/29/2021 at 12:10 PM, mistral53 said:

Slow day today.......just a few of the China bashers on duty? I expected at least 25 pages about 'China-bad' comments within the hour............lol

Does this make you a Chinese basher,  basher? 

[Nojohndoe]

On 5/29/2021 at 10:31 AM, tingtong said:

Why first, if ppl want Moderna, and it was approved weeks earlier...plus there is willing ppl to actually pay for it the "non-profit" double price like farangs always do...and still...the Chinese bribes win the race??

 

Place your order then and wait in the global queue !

[rbkk]

2 hours ago, ekamaihouse said:

I'm 51 and had the 'SinoPharm' jab, both shots here in Shanghai. No issues and extremely well organised by the government - took about 10 minutes - paid 100 Yuan for each shot.

So, equivalent to below 500 baht a shot. Certainly not one of the most expensive vaccines as has been claimed here. Shots are not free in China? Also, was there no observation period after being vaccinated? 10 minutes is about the amount of time Thailand would take to murmer a "Ka."

[Selatan]

10 hours ago, rbkk said:

So, equivalent to below 500 baht a shot. Certainly not one of the most expensive vaccines as has been claimed here. Shots are not free in China? Also, was there no observation period after being vaccinated? 10 minutes is about the amount of time Thailand would take to murmer a "Ka."

It's free for Malaysians in China because Malaysia is the first country to have a reciprocal vaccination arrangement with China.

https://www.thestar.com.my/aseanplus/aseanplus-news/2021/05/23/china-to-help-malaysia-with-covid-19-vaccines

[Selatan]

On 5/29/2021 at 2:14 PM, MajorTom said:

None of the Chinese vaccines seems to be very effective. At least not until you get close to 100% vaccination. Clinical trials can say whatever they want. We now have real world data from countries that vaccinated millions of people using mainly sinovac or sinopharm:

 

Seychelles: 70% (63%fully)vaccinated. Cases and deaths still rising.

Bahrain: 50+%(44%fully) Vaccinated. Cases and deaths skyrocketing

Chile:  50+% (41%fully)Vaccinated. No significant effect on cases or deaths.

Maldives: 57% (30% fully) Vaccinated. Significant increase in cases and deaths.

 

There is however a town in Brazil that used the sinovac with good results. But they are at 100% vaccination rate.

 

Then take a look at Israel or Gibraltar back in time that used mainly Pfizer. Cases and deaths started diving at 30+% and thats only partial vaccination. And well before that level in the UK(Mainly Astra Zeneca) or USA.

 

I fear that re-opening Phuket with 70% of the population vaccinated with mainly sinopharm will not work as planned.. Hope im wrong.

Sinopharm's vaccine has performed very well in Seychelles. Covishield (India's version of AstraZeneca) too.
 

 

[rbkk]

5 minutes ago, Selatan said:

It's free for Malaysians in China because Malaysia is the first country to have a reciprocal vaccination arrangement with China.

https://www.thestar.com.my/aseanplus/aseanplus-news/2021/05/23/china-to-help-malaysia-with-covid-19-vaccines

Quoting the link "...marine infrastructure construction." Some could call that another navy military base. The same as the Ream Naval base in Cambodia. 

[rbkk]

7 minutes ago, Selatan said:

Sinopharm's vaccine has performed very well in Seychelles. Covishield (India's version of AstraZeneca) too.
 

 

 Seychelles: (Quote) Other countries where a significant proportion of the population is fully vaccinated, have reported much lower levels of new infections. 
This link might make things clearer?
 https://www.bbc.com/news/57148348

[Selatan]

11 minutes ago, rbkk said:

Quoting the link "...marine infrastructure construction." Some could call that another navy military base. The same as the Ream Naval base in Cambodia. 

Not sure what link you were referring to, and what's that has got to do with Sinopharm's vaccine?