Elder care options in Chiang Mai

[LivinLOS]

Seeking to list the places where there is some form of assisted living ideally mostly independent assisted living in CM. 

 

The TL;DR version. 

My Mum is aging very rapidly in the UK, despite the fact that shes younger than some of my drinking mates at 'only' 67 the last couple of years has had an extreme physical and mental decline, it would be easy to assume she was late 70s plus, and thats happened rapidly in the last 3 - 5 years. 

She lives alone in the UK, is not living a happy and fulfilled life and the basic necessities of shopping, feeding, etc herself are starting to become a real challenge. It was my longer term plan that down the road I would build a annex in the garden (for both our mothers !!), and potentially have some nursing / home help assistance for times I am not there. I both have land and can afford this and dont mind the idea. However the reality is that isnt now, it was a semi retirement plan, I am 18 months to 2 years away from having the villa build accomplished, and I still leave Thailand for 3 plus months multiple times per year and currently I work a high commitment job. I had assumed there was another 5 - 10 years before this became necessary. There is zero chance my mother would be successful at living here herself and I am simply not able to be here constantly to make that viable.

UK options are grim, or multi 100k per annum, and hence we have been trying to keep her in her home as long as possible. It may last a year or two yet but the writing is clearly on the wall.

What I seek is more halfway house than aged care home. She doesn't need (or want) full time hospice type care, she needs a safe small home, in a residential community, nearby assistance, food / shopping duties done or assisted. What could be hugely beneficial for her is a similar community but I am guessing thats an unlikely outcome. 

What exists in the Chiang Mai area ?? 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by LivinLOS

[BritManToo]

Nice place, cottages and condos, activities and a swimming pool, starting at 25kbht/month.

But it's very Thai.

 

https://www.facebook.com/baannlalisa

[bojo]

Have you considered a moo baan. For example renting a property on Palm Springs (the original opposite Montford school on Mahidol road)> There are 300 plus houses there, with some for rent most of the time. Mostly middle class Thais and quite a few expats with lovely grounds and beautiful swimmimng pool......Anyways, they have great security, fully manned reception and lots of people around in the community all the time, walking around between neighbours houses, cycling, exercising (the perimiter wall is about 3K's).Shops and market etc are three hundred metres away and a songtail taxi station adjacent. lots of the houses have their own cleaners and house keepers coming and going and I imagine some are also live in....Small 2 bedrooms start at about 10K, with a spare room if need be for a part time carer.............There is also a hotel within the grounds, although seperately owned, handy for visitors)...It's a realy nice place to live with kind and sympathetic like minded locals living there.........Perhaps this might be a consideration for your mum....I trust it works out for her............regards...........................

[Lacessit]

The OP may want to consider the option of a full-time carer.

Plenty of condos for rent at 10,000 baht/month, even less with the pandemic.

Every year, nurses in hospitals are compulsorily retired at age 45, on a meagre pension. Many would be quite happy with a carer's wage of 10-15K baht month, and would have a head start in being qualified to do so.

Think I have seen ads on the board at Rimping seeking employment.

[Jeffr2]

Not sure if they are still operating, but heard good things about these guys.

 

http://www.careresortchiangmai.com/

 

Do you have a Thai partner?  We brought my mother here almost 10 years ago.  We had a great caregiver for about 20k/month who lived with her 24x7.  Worked out great.  Part of the time in our house, then built a granny flat on our property and she lived there for about 5 years.  Close, but not in our house.

 

Good luck!!!!

[Poet]

The most important thing, from your description, is that she is not suffering from Alzheimers or any other form of mental confusion.

That is the main thing that would rule out such a major change of environment.

Is someone back in the UK filling you in on how badly she is doing?

It is quite common for family members or acquintances to exaggerate how badly someone is doing, and to paint too bleak a picture of their current life. She may actually have some friends or activities that she values. She may be more capable than reported.

Is she overweight and or suffering from varicose veins?

Any long-distance flight could be ruled out if she is at risk of DVT.

Change becomes harder as we age, and people who are slipping tend to worry about losing what they already have, even if their current life is rubbish.

If you can afford it, the most humane thing might be to invite her out to Thailand for three months, "just for the winter". Hire a friendly, middle-aged Thai lady, preferably divorced and no young kids, with at least some English to be her companion/carer.

If you have kids yourself, it would be a good idea to ask for your mother's help in teaching or in some other way helping them. People can cope with a lot of change if they feel they have a purpose and are valued.

At the end of the three months, she may have bonded with the companion and her role within your family. Ideally, she will start to ask about staying, rather than you being the one to suggest it.

The chances are high that she would prefer to remain in the UK, even in relatively miserable circumstances. It is frustrating, but there is only so much we can do for our parents.
 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Poet

[canthai55]

Contact NancyL - member of this forum

[bojo]

24 minutes ago, Poet said:

The most important thing, from your description, is that she is not suffering from Alzheimers or any other form of mental confusion.

That is the main thing that would rule out such a major change of environment.

Is someone back in the UK filling you in on how badly she is doing?

It is quite common for family members or acquintances to exaggerate how badly someone is doing, and to paint too bleak a picture of their current life. She may actually have some friends or activities that she values. She may be more capable than reported.

Is she overweight and or suffering from varicose veins?

Any long-distance flight could be ruled out if she is at risk of DVT.

Change becomes harder as we age, and people who are slipping tend to worry about losing what they already have, even if their current life is rubbish.

If you can afford it, the most humane thing might be to invite her out to Thailand for three months, "just for the winter". Hire a friendly, middle-aged Thai lady, preferably divorced and no young kids, with at least some English to be her companion/carer.

If you have kids yourself, it would be a good idea to ask for your mother's help in teaching or in some other way helping them. People can cope with a lot of change if they feel they have a purpose and are valued.

At the end of the three months, she may have bonded with the companion and her role within your family. Ideally, she will start to ask about staying, rather than you being the one to suggest it.

The chances are high that she would prefer to remain in the UK, even in relatively miserable circumstances. It is frustrating, but there is only so much we can do for our parents.
 

some really very valid points

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, bojo said:

Have you considered a moo baan. For example renting a property on Palm Springs (the original opposite Montford school on Mahidol road)> There are 300 plus houses there, with some for rent most of the time. Mostly middle class Thais and quite a few expats with lovely grounds and beautiful swimmimng pool......Anyways, they have great security, fully manned reception and lots of people around in the community all the time, walking around between neighbours houses, cycling, exercising (the perimiter wall is about 3K's).Shops and market etc are three hundred metres away and a songtail taxi station adjacent. lots of the houses have their own cleaners and house keepers coming and going and I imagine some are also live in....Small 2 bedrooms start at about 10K, with a spare room if need be for a part time carer.............There is also a hotel within the grounds, although seperately owned, handy for visitors)...It's a realy nice place to live with kind and sympathetic like minded locals living there.........Perhaps this might be a consideration for your mum....I trust it works out for her............regards...........................

I have considered it.. As I have with a full time carer.. However there are complicating issues. 

Mum suffers from a range of long term issues, anxiety, depression, agoraphobia, and some more complex subtly related issues. She had a mild stroke and that seems to have had cognition degenerative effects.. Which then exacerbate all of the above.. In the UK where she is a local, speaks the language, understands the money, in absolute rural devon safety, she still can barely leave the house. Suggesting that she would somehow adapt to social interaction in Thailand isnt reality. We tried it just over 15 years ago when she was in far better physical and mental health and she was unable to function then at late 40s early 50s, the issues are far worse now. 

The right day / carer could potentially mitigate some of that, however its not something I would suggest the changes based on hope that one would be found. My experiences with reliability etc of services havent been great (I cant find people I trust my dogs with, let alone my Mum). 

[LivinLOS]

38 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Not sure if they are still operating, but heard good things about these guys.

 

http://www.careresortchiangmai.com/

 

Do you have a Thai partner?  We brought my mother here almost 10 years ago.  We had a great caregiver for about 20k/month who lived with her 24x7.  Worked out great.  Part of the time in our house, then built a granny flat on our property and she lived there for about 5 years.  Close, but not in our house.

 

Good luck!!!!

This was exactly my longer term plan.. But its not possible yet, pre covid I was spending half the year outside the country etc. 

[Jeffr2]

9 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

This was exactly my longer term plan.. But its not possible yet, pre covid I was spending half the year outside the country etc. 

I brought my mother here and she had severe dementia.  It was a bitch to get her to leave the US, her home, her friends that stopped seeing her, etc.  But, we pushed forward and made it happen.  Best thing we ever did, and we also spent around 4-5 months outside the country every year.

 

When we were gone, we had one of my wife's relatives stay at the house.  Along with the care giver.  We'd call pretty much every other day while we were gone.  We did this for years.  Luckily, my mom only had dementia, otherwise, was in fantastic health. 100% opposite of my dad, who had terrible health, but a solid brain. LOL.

 

The cost savings are stunning.  My mother couldn't afford a good nursing home in the US.  But here, at one time, we even had 2 care givers!  One at around 20k per month, the other at around 12k.  The main one was here 24x7, 365 days a year.  The other was here just 5 days a week for 6-8 hours.  And only when we were gone.

 

My wife did a great job of managing all this.  Not easy, but way better than having her at a nursing home in the US.

 

Best of luck!  I'd contact @NancyL.  Hopefully, she can help out here!

 

Good luck!!

Edited June 10, 2021 by Jeffr2

[LivinLOS]

31 minutes ago, Poet said:

The most important thing, from your description, is that she is not suffering from Alzheimers or any other form of mental confusion.

That is the main thing that would rule out such a major change of environment.

Is someone back in the UK filling you in on how badly she is doing?

It is quite common for family members or acquintances to exaggerate how badly someone is doing, and to paint too bleak a picture of their current life. She may actually have some friends or activities that she values. She may be more capable than reported.

Is she overweight and or suffering from varicose veins?

Any long-distance flight could be ruled out if she is at risk of DVT.

Change becomes harder as we age, and people who are slipping tend to worry about losing what they already have, even if their current life is rubbish.

If you can afford it, the most humane thing might be to invite her out to Thailand for three months, "just for the winter". Hire a friendly, middle-aged Thai lady, preferably divorced and no young kids, with at least some English to be her companion/carer.

If you have kids yourself, it would be a good idea to ask for your mother's help in teaching or in some other way helping them. People can cope with a lot of change if they feel they have a purpose and are valued.

At the end of the three months, she may have bonded with the companion and her role within your family. Ideally, she will start to ask about staying, rather than you being the one to suggest it.

The chances are high that she would prefer to remain in the UK, even in relatively miserable circumstances. It is frustrating, but there is only so much we can do for our parents.
 

Mental confusion is coming.. Her cognitive ability is noticeably dropping fast. But that isnt any better alone in UK and government care facilities are shocking. 

She is horrifically underweight, vegetarian with a lifetime history of eating disorders. This is something I am positive had huge effects on her physical and mental health. Believe me when I say I know her life, and she has zero social connection and hasnt had for a long time, its a huge issue that has been ongoing for decades. Shes in a bad place mentally, but now also she is becoming physically unable to shop, falls, trips, unable or unwilling to get 200m to the local store, etc. 

I have no kids and as I keep trying to emphasize live a life than involves large periods of travel. I am simply not here for half the year at best (pre covid), sometimes even less. I had envisaged that stopping in a few years but its not something I can stop yet. 

[Poet]

Well, life with a kind companion, some activities, high-quality vegetarian food (CM is excellent for that), good air-conditioning, and a big TV with all the UK channels, it could be pleasant for her even if you're not around much.
 

8 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

UK and government care facilities are shocking. 

I spent a decade in the UK and was always amazed at the religious fervour around the NHS, the gap between what people imagine it will do for them and what it actually provides when things go pear-shaped in a not-easy-to-fix way.

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Poet

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Nice place, cottages and condos, activities and a swimming pool, starting at 25kbht/month.

But it's very Thai.

 

https://www.facebook.com/baannlalisa

This looks very appealing.. But of course it would in promotional material. 

I am of course the furthest I could be from it while still being near CM, but this, and options like this, are exactly what I was seeking. 

Thanks. 

[LivinLOS]

Just now, Poet said:

Well, life with a kind companion, some activities, high-quality vegetarian food (CM is excellent for that), good air-conditioning, and a big TV with all the UK channels, it could be a nice life for her even if you're not around much.

Agreed.. It would be superior to her current life. 

It was my intention to do that with an annex on my property, its all part of a plan, but that anticipated this happening in the next decade, not now. 
 

Quote

I spent a decade in the UK and was always amazed at the religious fervour around the NHS, the gap between what people imagine it will do for them and what it actually provides when things go pear-shaped.

Also agreed.. Messed up my father from a leg break (almost lost it until bupa got involved) failed my brother.. etc etc.. Its fine for your basic broken bones and delivering babies.. But not a fan and feel the propaganda to be grateful for sub rate service which actually comes at high social cost, kind of insane. 

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

This looks very appealing.. But of course it would in promotional material. 

I am of course the furthest I could be from it while still being near CM, but this, and options like this, are exactly what I was seeking. 

Thanks. 

There's a place just like that not far from us.  We know the owner as she's a neighbor.  We almost put mom there, but the private rooms were some 75k per month.  I think they wanted around 30k for a bed in one of the open rooms.  A few farang, but mostly Thai people.  The staff, as is normal here, were fantastic.

 

She eventually ended up there as we couldn't take care of her during the final months.  IVs, constant trips to the hospital, and needing to be on call in case anything happened...just too much for us and our caregiver.

 

Again, best of luck!!! 

[LivinLOS]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

There's a place just like that not far from us.  We know the owner as she's a neighbor.  We almost put mom there, but the private rooms were some 75k per month.  I think they wanted around 30k for a bed in one of the open rooms.  A few farang, but mostly Thai people.  The staff, as is normal here, were fantastic.

 

She eventually ended up there as we couldn't take care of her during the final months.  IVs, constant trips to the hospital, and needing to be on call in case anything happened...just too much for us and our caregiver.

 

Again, best of luck!!! 

 

Cost isnt a big deal.. My life is complicated and I work and travel a lot but the upside of that is 75k is a rounding error on income. 

I was looking at things in the uk which were more in the line of 250k a month, that then needs consideration. 

[BritManToo]

38 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

This looks very appealing.. But of course it would in promotional material. 

I am of course the furthest I could be from it while still being near CM, but this, and options like this, are exactly what I was seeking. 

Thanks. 

A pal of mine 70+ stayed there a month (2019) after breaking his hip toppling off a scooter.

He was in a shared ward (4 beds) @ 25kbht/month.

It was as nice as the photos, but the food was 100% Thai cooking and the staff didn't really speak English.

I guess in these days of Grab and Foodpanda, the Thai food wouldn't be that big a problem.

They would also transport you to and from the local hospital, plenty of nursing and staff onsite. The grounds were very park like, and nice to sit out or stroll around.

 

Maybe hire an English speaking Thai 'companion' to visit for a couple of hours every other day to make the experience more foreigner friendly.

 

You or your misses should take a trip out there and have a look around for yourselves, they are very helpful and friendly (but only speak Thai). Maybe the standards have fallen in the past 2 years, maybe it's just as nice as it was.

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by BritManToo

[LivinLOS]

36 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

You or your misses should take a trip out there and have a look around for yourselves, they are very helpful and friendly (but only speak Thai). Maybe the standards have fallen in the past 2 years, maybe it's just as nice as it was.

 

 

This is my intention, build a list of every available option, visit them and look at pro and cons, devise a plan, then discuss it with mum. 

 

The annex in the garden idea (plus carer) has some possibility in +- 2 years, but think that's too long given rate of decline she's going through. 

[Jeffr2]

18 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

This is my intention, build a list of every available option, visit them and look at pro and cons, devise a plan, then discuss it with mum. 

 

The annex in the garden idea (plus carer) has some possibility in +- 2 years, but think that's too long given rate of decline she's going through. 

The annex was fantastic for us.  I loved my mom, but....it was great to have the house to ourselves and her outside, but right next to us, with her only 1BR 1BA annex.  Fantastic.

[motdaeng]

if money is not an issue, this seems to be a good option ...

(expect the air quality in chiang mai)

 

https://www.vivobene.ch/en/home

[THAIPHUKET]

Is India (after Covid) an option? English more spoken which should give a more home feeling. Rather than basically total isolation.

[lexilis]

This is an excellent source of info:

https://www.cancerconnect-chiangmai.com/senior-healthcare-facilities-survey

[clonetom]

This option mainly caters to German speaking guests, but what do you have to loose speaking to the owner/founder Martin Woodtli. The establishment has received world wide recognition and for the care given (i.e. 3 caretakers per guest), the prices are very moderate. I've had a look there myself and was more than impressed...

 

https://www.alzheimerthailand.com/

 

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/offshoring-care_swiss-alzheimer-s-patients-find-home-in-thailand/38281642

 

https://www.global-geneva.com/village-of-the-forgetful-a-film-makers-journey/

 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, THAIPHUKET said:

Is India (after Covid) an option? English more spoken which should give a more home feeling. Rather than basically total isolation.

No that would have zero upside and be out of the question. 

[LivinLOS]

53 minutes ago, clonetom said:

This option mainly caters to German speaking guests, but what do you have to loose speaking to the owner/founder Martin Woodtli. The establishment has received world wide recognition and for the care given (i.e. 3 caretakers per guest), the prices are very moderate. I've had a look there myself and was more than impressed...

 

https://www.alzheimerthailand.com/

 

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/offshoring-care_swiss-alzheimer-s-patients-find-home-in-thailand/38281642

 

https://www.global-geneva.com/village-of-the-forgetful-a-film-makers-journey/

 

 

55 minutes ago, lexilis said:

This is an excellent source of info:

https://www.cancerconnect-chiangmai.com/senior-healthcare-facilities-survey

Thanks. Will all be followed up with. 

 

[deadbeat]

Check Mckean Hospital out. Retirement home, about 30k a month, food iffy but a nice place, friendly staff. Just outside of town on the river.

 

Goid luck

[abrahamzvi]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Nice place, cottages and condos, activities and a swimming pool, starting at 25kbht/month.

But it's very Thai.

 

https://www.facebook.com/baannlalisa

Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the place, but remember reading the website, it seems exactly what you are looking for. I do remember that it is run by a Swiss person, and it is somewhere in Doi Saket. Make some enquiries, you may even find it in Google.

[abrahamzvi]

4 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the place, but remember reading the website, it seems exactly what you are looking for. I do remember that it is run by a Swiss person, and it is somewhere in Doi Saket. Make some enquiries, you may even find it in Google.

I tried to google the place I referred to, but found a diffrent place, which sounds great. It is in Mae Rim and you can get in touch at the following address etc.

 Care Resort Chiang Mai
43/1 Moo 6 Mae Rim-Samoeng Road, Chang Mai, 50180, Thailand
Telephone: 66(0) 53044097
Fax: 66(0) 53044096
Email: [email protected]
     or:  [email protected]

[LivinLOS]

27 minutes ago, deadbeat said:

Check Mckean Hospital out. Retirement home, about 30k a month, food iffy but a nice place, friendly staff. Just outside of town on the river.

 

Goid luck

Thats one I am aware of, I know someone who is recovering from a major stroke there. 

I fear its not luxurious enough for me to want my Mum there, but I admit I dont know all the options.