Buying 7 Rai up in Buriram Planning to raise small amount of cows for sale

[Beardog]

Hi,

I am looking at purchasing 7 Rai in Buriram on Saturday that My Gal & I would like to get Brahman hybrid &  Charolais for raising maybe 3 females with calves. Is this sustainable along with the recommended feed for only 7 Rai or am I too hopeful? I realize the cattle will make 5000 baht to 8,000 baht or so & am just looking to make a meager amount so I can live a mild farm life & be around animals. I studied to be a Vet in my 20's & worked on a ranch many moons ago but can pick up the ball fairly easy.

The other question is this land used to be used for sugar cane & I am wondering besides needing nitrogen to be put back in the soil if there is more I need to know IE: pesticides. I have worked on Farms growing but more experience in crops than cattle. I have been reading some great posts on site & look forward raising some cattle(not a lot) some chickens & maybe some catfish along with fruit trees & veggies to eat-which we are doing now in Bang Saray where I am now. Thanks for the help!!!!!!!!!!! ???? Barry

[farmerjo]

I think you would want to set up whatever type of pasture to grow before getting the cows.

I forget the rule of thumb formula but think it was some where around

10 kilo's of feed/day @14% protein would put on a kilo of weight.

The guys still rearing cattle will have more updated info.

 

[Beardog]

Thanks so far. I plan on putting down Sunn hemp Crotalaria Junceo seeds after I have a tractor get the soil ready for seeds & then follow it with Mulato 2 grass for feed soon after purchase if property is as good as it seems. I will also build the shelter for the cows before I purchase. Our breeder we have been set up with has a cow sick now so he suggested we wait for 4-6 months anyway. He has some mighty fine cattle! I wish they were Angus or Bragus would be nice but they command a hefty sum if you can find them.

[spidermike007]

Please, please, please do not plant cane. It is utterly destructive to the environment and the air. A truly noxious commodity. 

[Beardog]

5 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Please, please, please do not plant cane. It is utterly destructive to the environment and the air. A truly noxious commodity. 

Nooo that is what we will be fighting the neighbors have about 7 Rai of sugar cane growing & it looks like our property stopped growing a couple years ago. After living in Maui Hawaii for 11 years Sugar cane is the last type of vegetation I want to cultivate. Hopefully the cane has not slammed the soil into oblivion. In Hawaii they used copius amounts of hideous pesticides & really you need lots of Rai to make anything on it. Probably like Mangos 40 Rai minimum & at 66 I am not looking for that hard of a lifestyle.

[worgeordie]

My wife and her friend ,put their money together ,and bought 2 young

heifers ,which were to be looked after by the friends mother, profit,if any

to be split 3 ways, I Advised her not to do it , money lost I thought.

 

The cows had a couple of calfs ,the mother ,every morning had to go

and collect grass to supplement the grass were the animals were grazing

lot of work for her, then one day while collecting the grass she was bitten

by a pit viper, on the hand, she was in a very bad way, ended up losing a

couple of fingers, she had a relative looking after the cows, so in the end

the animals had to be sold, I  was hoping the Wife would at least get her

money back, to my surprise she did not just get the money back, but 10 K

THB profit, try and get 10K interest on your bank account into days World,

She has never stopped telling me I was wrong !????.

 

With 7 Rai ,just look on it as a hobby, mix it up, animals, fish, chickens ,fruit, veg at

least you will have food to eat, if you don't a profit , good luck

regards Worgeordie

[cooked]

I gave up on cattle as a source of income some time ago although we still have 5 Brahmins and a nice breeding bull. Everything would be going well until we got foot and mouth (twice) lumpy skin disease (right now) and a year where we couldn't get enough grass and had to sell at a loss. Get your pasture fixed with beasts rotating between fields and I guess 7 rai is just about enough.

Good luck!

[Beardog]

14 minutes ago, cooked said:

I gave up on cattle as a source of income some time ago although we still have 5 Brahmins and a nice breeding bull. Everything would be going well until we got foot and mouth (twice) lumpy skin disease (right now) and a year where we couldn't get enough grass and had to sell at a loss. Get your pasture fixed with beasts rotating between fields and I guess 7 rai is just about enough.

Good luck!

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Beardog
forgot post

[Beardog]

I heard about the bumpy skin disease but I had thought hoof & mouth was gone long ago. I have a lot to learn.

[IsaanAussie]

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

With 7 Rai ,just look on it as a hobby, mix it up, animals, fish, chickens ,fruit, veg at

least you will have food to eat, if you don't a profit , good luck

I agree and would go a bit further and suggest you forget making a profit. Get a couple of heifers instead of a mower. Buy young beasts and grow them out for 4 months, sell them for a new pair. Best case you get enough to cover any external expenditure. If you are going to diversify, concentrate on any earth works needed and get ponds dug and beds built up. 

[CLW]

Current diseases in Thailand are a PITA. Good luck to everyone their farm / animals won't be affected.

Just idea, maybe you could increase your meat value by mixing some angus / wagyu blood inside to get a nice marbling.

Aging is also very important, doesn't matter if dry or vacuum aged.

My Thai professor who is expert for pasture and forage always said a good reference point is 1 rai per 1 cattle, both for grazing or cut&carry.

[Beardog]

I would love to get some Angus for sure.Where the Thai market is that they sell the cows I wasn't seeing much Angus or Heifer even as hybrids. Since it will be probably 6 months to get 300 meters electric lines in & a borehole drilled(the water witch guy is meeting us out on site Saturday-He knows this area & is real certain there is a good water supply for a borehole) & building the cow shed & getting the Nitrogen fixing portion done in the soil I am looking at 6 months or so. We live in Pattaya area & will be taking some time to get this going.Especially in Buriram it is a nightmare with the Poo Ye Baan in regards to covid & out of towners. But I really appreciate all the input. I can't believe this will be the 4th house I have built in Thailand so I have learned patience for sure.

[kickstart]

Seven rie is more than enough for just 3 cows and calves , if your grass is of good quality ,if it will be a few months before you move in ,and the land used to be sugar cane ,put in a crop of sun hemp ,or mung beans let it grow then plough it in as a green manure,it will put some organic matter back in to the soil .

As for 1 rie per head for grazing or cut and cart ,may be OK for our temperate climate ,but here not here Issan has a lot of very light land not rain for a few weeks and grass will stop growing ,ok if you have irrigation .

If your grass is of good quality say Mulato II and has ha plenty of fertilizer applied and the land is fertile you might get 1 rie /1 head but for most farms it will be the best part of 2 rie /head .

FJ. The normal rule of thumb for LWG live weight gain is 6 kg of feed to 1 kg of weight gain, but a lot will depend on the quality of the roughage ,with some young leafy Mulato II and your 14 % concentrate it will be 6:1 ,but if the roughage is poor quality ,road side grass or rice straw ,it will be nearer 7:1.

The OP is looking for some Angus or Brangus cattle ,so am I, not easy to find ,we have a Beefmaster bull he is doing well ,they are a few breeders in Thailand ,not cheap but worth the investment ,have a look at Thai Facebook for Angus or Brangus ,and Beefmaster cattle.

[Beardog]

18 minutes ago, kickstart said:

Seven rie is more than enough for just 3 cows and calves , if your grass is of good quality ,if it will be a few months before you move in ,and the land used to be sugar cane ,put in a crop of sun hemp ,or mung beans let it grow then plough it in as a green manure,it will put some organic matter back in to the soil .

As for 1 rie per head for grazing or cut and cart ,may be OK for our temperate climate ,but here not here Issan has a lot of very light land not rain for a few weeks and grass will stop growing ,ok if you have irrigation .

If your grass is of good quality say Mulato II and has ha plenty of fertilizer applied and the land is fertile you might get 1 rie /1 head but for most farms it will be the best part of 2 rie /head .

FJ. The normal rule of thumb for LWG live weight gain is 6 kg of feed to 1 kg of weight gain, but a lot will depend on the quality of the roughage ,with some young leafy Mulato II and your 14 % concentrate it will be 6:1 ,but if the roughage is poor quality ,road side grass or rice straw ,it will be nearer 7:1.

The OP is looking for some Angus or Brangus cattle ,so am I, not easy to find ,we have a Beefmaster bull he is doing well ,they are a few breeders in Thailand ,not cheap but worth the investment ,have a look at Thai Facebook for Angus or Brangus ,and Beefmaster cattle.

Thanks Kickstart! I was thinking along the same lines with Sunn hemp to start & Mulato ll. The mixtures for the feed I will be learning I am sure as I get into it. My Gal just found a purveyor that buys & sells Angus & I think Heifer & other premium brands has feeds to buy & will sell all stuffs I need & when the cattle or cows(I don't think 6 cows rates as cattle) But the site says he will come up from Issan & pick up the cows that are ready to sell. Alisa is going to talk to him tomorrow. I guess his business as an exporter of fine beef to Europe & it looks like it makes more money per Kilo going the quality route, at any rate this should be a good contact along with the ace help from the Farm forum here.Since we are not looking to make huge profits...just enough to augment existing income this may just work out fine as long as I don't get roped into paying family members for a salary. Damn & I will have to forgo eating the Angus beef myself.The only food I really miss in the U.S.!

[kickstart]

14 hours ago, Beardog said:

brands has feeds to buy & will sell all stuffs I need & when the cattle or cows(I don't think 6 cows rates as cattle) But the site says he will come up from Issan & pick up the cows that are ready to sell. Alisa is going to talk to him tomorrow. I guess his business as an exporter of fine beef to Europe & it looks like it makes more money per Kilo going the quality route, at any rate this should be a good contact along

I think this guy will lead you up the proverbial garden path .

Back in 2001 the UK had a big out brake of Foot and Mouth ,almost overnight the beef export market closed .

Here in Thailand they are out brakes of F/M all the time TV's cooked has had it twice, over the past few years it has been around here a few times .

They would be no way anyone in Europe would buy Thai beef  because of F/M, has any TV member seen Thai beef in their country ?.

He will buy your cattle for certain ,but at the current market price ,and that is the problem with rearing beef in Thailand finding that premium market .

They is a co-op in Korat they will buy Wagyu beef at a premium price ,but you have to abide by their rules ,certain breeds for breeding the Wagyu, feed set up , about the only premium beef set up in Thailand is the Thai /French beef company in Sakonnakon.

They is a place near me that will buy quality stock ,none of you road side Brahmans, but he will only pay 20-30 baht/over current market price .

You could do what we do use Angus/Charolais/Beefmaster bulls on your cows ,and sell the off spring at 12-15 months old ,and let someone else do the fattening bit. 

I have brought  Thai Angus beef in Makro very nice it was to ,they is a market ,I would say it would be a company farm selling to Makro.   

[chickenslegs]

15 hours ago, Beardog said:

My Gal just found a purveyor that buys & sells Angus & I think Heifer & other premium brands

Do you mean Hereford?

A heifer is a young female cow of any breed.

Edited June 11, 2021 by chickenslegs
Grammar

[Beardog]

My Bad Hereford. I am new to cows More of a Auto painter & Mechanic. I wish I knew all the breeds but in time I am sure I will.Thanks for the correction so I don't sound foolish!

[Beardog]

We just got 2 ranches that gave us prices for the per kilo payout. Is 95 baht a kilo for male Angus a decent price right now? And the second price was 96 baht a kilo for either male or female. Both will work with us on the feed program & even show & tell on how to mix feeds to fatten the cows up. Seems decent for the price par Kilo but I am new to the cow game so I don't know Sht!

[Beardog]

Kickstart is there anything one can do to minimize the possibility of Hoof & mouth disease? Besides cleanliness or is that not even related to the disease?

[Beardog]

Well you know that old saying if it sounds to good to be true........

The land we were going to purchase is flood land. No good for cows & no good for a house so sure glad the people divulged that information before we got there. And we found out that if we buy Angus cows  4 months worth of fattening them up are a meager 3000 baht after feed costs. I guess there really isn't much scratch to be made on cows in Thailand. Seems like  a Thai cow hybrid is a better answer same money less buy in.

[Nojohndoe]

34 minutes ago, Beardog said:

Well you know that old saying if it sounds to good to be true........

The land we were going to purchase is flood land. No good for cows & no good for a house so sure glad the people divulged that information before we got there. And we found out that if we buy Angus cows  4 months worth of fattening them up are a meager 3000 baht after feed costs. I guess there really isn't much scratch to be made on cows in Thailand. Seems like  a Thai cow hybrid is a better answer same money less buy in.

Well done you in getting  some valuable insight !

There are some people I  know well who do make some good profit raising  beef but it seems to be a bit of a lottery due to prevailing climatic conditions as just one complication !

[farmerjo]

On 6/10/2021 at 8:03 PM, kickstart said:

FJ. The normal rule of thumb for LWG live weight gain is 6 kg of feed to 1 kg of weight gain, but a lot will depend on the quality of the roughage ,with some young leafy Mulato II and your 14 % concentrate it will be 6:1 ,but if the roughage is poor quality ,road side grass or rice straw ,it will be nearer 7:1.

Here is a complicated report i came across this morning.

 https://www.farmweekly.com.au/story/7293914/targeting-more-than-1kg-a-day-in-weaners-over-winter/?cs=5151

[kickstart]

13 hours ago, Beardog said:

Well you know that old saying if it sounds to good to be true........

The land we were going to purchase is flood land. No good for cows & no good for a house so sure glad the people divulged that information before we got there. And we found out that if we buy Angus cows  4 months worth of fattening them up are a meager 3000 baht after feed costs. I guess there really isn't much scratch to be made on cows in Thailand. Seems like  a Thai cow hybrid is a better answer same money less buy in.

This four month growing scheme is a government idea they were going to foot the bill in buying the cattle and feed costs, and you give them back the money after you sell the cattle, and keep the profit. 

With most Thai cattle it will take 4 months just to get some condition on them without the putting on any weight on  ,that is if the owner is willing to buy the feed and not just cut road side grass .

They is no way you can fatten cattle in 4 months an idea  by some Thai  civil servant who has no idea about cattle.

It has been wrote before the only way to make money with beef cattle in Thailand is to grow and manage some good quality grass ,on fertile  land ,grass is a cheep feed, you can not do it by feed expensive concentrate feeds ,and rice straw .

The price of 95 baht /kg for beef is about right ,it has dropped since 18 months ago from around 120baht/kg, and since the feed prices have gone up .

 

[farmerjo]

In our village there was a scheme recently,don't know all the details but along the lines of 25 people given one cow each,1st calf you give back then yours to do what you like,maybe same as what your talking about KS.  

Once again it was on a need to know basis and friends of those in charge quickly filled the numbers before the ordinary folk got a chance. 

Think at this stage it has stalled because of the lumpy skin disease.

[RafPinto]

21 hours ago, Beardog said:

My Bad Hereford. I am new to cows More of a Auto painter & Mechanic. I wish I knew all the breeds but in time I am sure I will.Thanks for the correction so I don't sound foolish!

Hereford

Theremazda

[Beardog]

Farmerjo thanks for the good informative link. I never realized how much math there was to feeding cattle. Boy do I have a lot to learn. But hey better to be informed & know what I( am getting into.

[Beardog]

Kickstart it seems like a pipe dream the 4 month plan math wise truly is setting yourself up for a let down in terms of a decent return when you can day trade buying Dodgecoin & sell within a week & make 3000 baht or more(or less). I didn't realize the prices went down by 25% along with the bumpy skin problem & thought foot & mouth wasn't even an issue anymore. I couldn't have been more wrong.

Looks like it will be a while before we find some land for a decent price & a while for beef to go back to normal if it does. I would love to start now. I am a young 66 & still active & wasn't thinking of moving till I was 70 but no matter what when the time is right we will put together a small farm as we both love animals & where we are now have chickens running around,so it is pleasant. My Gal would love to get a young Charolais so we could use the key for the 1 & 1/2 nahn garden.... but I think a 1 nahn plot is a little small for a cow that will get bigger for sure. Not quite like having some chickens.

[kickstart]

9 hours ago, farmerjo said:

In our village there was a scheme recently,don't know all the details but along the lines of 25 people given one cow each,1st calf you give back then yours to do what you like,maybe same as what your talking about KS.  

Once again it was on a need to know basis and friends of those in charge quickly filled the numbers before the ordinary folk got a chance. 

Think at this stage it has stalled because of the lumpy skin disease.

We had a similar  scheme  you got given a cow ,it calved ,you rear the cow/calf, the cow has another calf ,the calf is reared ,then you give back the cow and first calf ,and you  keep the second calf .

It was ok if the second calf was a heifer ok you can breed from it ,if a bull you can sell it .

Thanks for that link ,1 kg weight gain/day can be done here in Thailand feeding Mulato II that is young and leafy   can give you 1/2 kg weight gain/day , the rest can come from some 14% concentrate ,nice if you can find some brewers grains .

[walt1]

Is artificial insemination used in Thailand? You would be able to choose what breed for the male. 

[kickstart]

30 minutes ago, walt1 said:

Is artificial insemination used in Thailand? You would be able to choose what breed for the male. 

Yes ,it is done on nearly all the dairy cows ,and has been done for about 35 years ,it is done on beef cows ,most breeds of cattle beef and dairy are available .