What's the going rate for someone to look after your Airbnb property?

[Badger18]

I'm thinking about buying an apartment in Chiang Mai to rent out via Airbnb. It'd be a 1-bed place and would probably go for about 10k a week in high season. A lot of owners have someone on the ground to go in between bookings and check the place over, clean, wash the sheets and towels etc and generally get it ready for the next guest. What is a reasonable amount to pay for that?

 

Thanks

[Peterw42]

Are you aware Airbnb is illegal for stays under one month, you will find many condo blocks dont allow it. With hotels down to 500 baht a night, I think you may find there is no demand or profit, even if it was legal.

Otherwise, a normal clean and wash/change sheet would be 200-300 baht

[Badger18]

Thanks. I don't think I'll have a problem over the legality of Airbnb in the block I have in mind. It'd be a long-term thing so I'm not too bothered about the fact that rates are currently low and demand is slack - this also means I'll get the place fairly cheap. Just the cleaning is 500 if you have it done through the condo management so 200-300 seems low to me, but I guess it just shows how much the management are creaming off. Saying that it's more than just a maid's job - the person has to pick up / deal with any damage, check nothing's missing / no longer working, make sure the stuff that's been put away is clean etc. I would not see the place myself so would be counting on them to do a decent job.

[ChipButty]

What you are looking for is someone to manage the place, Bookings, check in/ check out, cleaning and laundry and pay the bills,

Down in Phuket thats 25% of the rental income 

[bwpage3]

10k a week for 1 room?

 

All kinds of ingenious ideas for people trying to make money in Thailand.

 

I would take a hotel 10 to 1. 

 

 

[Susco]

Hurry hurry, high season is approaching fast, and I'm sure they are queueing up to rent a 1 bedroom place in Chiang Mai for 40K a month .

[ChaiyaTH]

10K a week in CM for airbnb condo is very very unlikely pipe dream. Also the fact you would need to pay average 25% of rental income to get it all serviced, theoretically, makes the ROI per year that low, you are better off putting the money in gold or silver.

 

Having said that, the airbnb market in CM that does run fairly well is with rooms of 500-600 baht a night average, 10-15K could get you a proper hotel, serviced apartment or a 1BR unit for the entire month (even within Nimman or old city itself, only gets cheaper if 10-15 mins outside of the main areas).

 

Those more luxury and 2BR units in CM are almost empty all the time, everywhere. 

[CharlieH]

Troll comment and response to it removed.

[NCC1701A]

7 hours ago, Badger18 said:

It'd be a 1-bed place and would probably go for about 10k a week in high season.

never happen. also illegal. 

 

[Badger18]

On 6/19/2021 at 3:07 PM, ChaiyaTH said:

10K a week in CM for airbnb condo is very very unlikely pipe dream. Also the fact you would need to pay average 25% of rental income to get it all serviced, theoretically, makes the ROI per year that low, you are better off putting the money in gold or silver.

 

Having said that, the airbnb market in CM that does run fairly well is with rooms of 500-600 baht a night average, 10-15K could get you a proper hotel, serviced apartment or a 1BR unit for the entire month (even within Nimman or old city itself, only gets cheaper if 10-15 mins outside of the main areas).

 

Those more luxury and 2BR units in CM are almost empty all the time, everywhere. 

Thanks. I usually rent monthly and pay 30-40k. There doesn't normally seem to be any shortage of takers at that price point - in fact the apartments are quite often unavailable when I try to book. Different at the moment, obviously. Without the monthly discount those same places come in around 10k/wk. The ROI is acceptable with servicing at 25% but I'll have to find out about the building charges.

[Badger18]

On 6/19/2021 at 3:07 PM, ChaiyaTH said:

Also the fact you would need to pay average 25% of rental income to get it all serviced, theoretically, makes the ROI per year that low...

... saying that I'd be interested to know where (in CM) you think would generate the best ROI. I'd quite like to buy a house for myself so am keeping an eye on the new visas they are supposedly introducing that allow you to do that, but there's going to be a requirement to drop a huge amount of money on Thai property - much more than I'd want to spend on my own place. I'd need to make up the difference by buying one or more investment properties.

[itsari]

I think you are dreaming on the week price for a one bedroom flat in Chiang Mai even before covid struck .

I have 5 listings on airbnb and the work involved for a short term rental is far more than just the cleaning . One person has mentioned 25 percent of the rental for managing the listing . I cant see you getting someone for that when the realistic monthly rent would be 7000 a month  

[tonray]

On 6/19/2021 at 1:44 PM, Badger18 said:

would probably go for about 10k a week in high season.

not a chance...

[bojo]

On 6/19/2021 at 7:44 AM, Badger18 said:

It'd be a 1-bed place and would probably go for about 10k a week in high season.

I'd be interested to know who is your target market at this price and how long are you expecting each rental to last for? Chipbutty has told you accurately the going rate for management/cleaning etc, it won't be far removed in CM, perhaps a tad cheaper........................................................If you were to make it a luxury pad with loadsa mod cons in a convenient area and were able to market it successfully somehow, (is airbnb the answer?) you could well acheive that figure in high season (which is quite short really)..............................................................I haven't done the maths in any shape or form, but if you're aiming for the more luxury end of the market, I would say that you would need to be hands on, coz attention to detail will be imperative for reviews, repeat biz and referrals etc...........................................,

[ChipButty]

First I would like to say STR business is finished for now in Thailand and there is a lot more work involved getting up at 4 am to check the guest out crazy things like that dont forget doing the TM-30 for every guest.

The way forward at the moment is long term bookings if you can get them,

I would say go onto Airbnb as a guest and check out what is available in the area where you are thinking of buying and see what you are up against no doubt you will find some units in the same project you are thinking of buying, then click on their calendars to see if they have any bookings when I do it where I live they have no bookings right through till next year,

Ask yourself when looking to buy would you book that condo......................? 

You live and die by the reviews on Airbnb some guest can be complete A/holes and you cannot remove them.

One more thing read the reviews from the guest will give you a good idea what people like and dont like,

[Badger18]

1 hour ago, bojo said:

I'd be interested to know who is your target market at this price and how long are you expecting each rental to last for? Chipbutty has told you accurately the going rate for management/cleaning etc, it won't be far removed in CM, perhaps a tad cheaper........................................................If you were to make it a luxury pad with loadsa mod cons in a convenient area and were able to market it successfully somehow, (is airbnb the answer?) you could well acheive that figure in high season (which is quite short really)..............................................................I haven't done the maths in any shape or form, but if you're aiming for the more luxury end of the market, I would say that you would need to be hands on, coz attention to detail will be imperative for reviews, repeat biz and referrals etc...........................................,

 

It's the type of place I normally stay in myself. I'd say the other guests are about two thirds Chinese tourists and one third western. From the reviews people seem to stay anywhere from a few days to a couple of months, but what the mix is I couldn't say. I'm not necessarily stuck on any particular end of the market, just starting with what I know. There's quite a lot to be found north of this price point so I didn't see it as that fancy, but seeing how many people on here just don't believe people pay 10k a week for accommodation in Chiang Mai I guess it must be. I have someone reliable on the ground and would plan to be in CM myself most of the time as well. Hard to know what sort of occupancy levels you get except that I often find a place I've stayed in is taken when I go to rebook. That's virtually always high season though. I can't imagine there'd be many / any bookings in low season.

[Badger18]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

First I would like to say STR business is finished for now in Thailand and there is a lot more work involved getting up at 4 am to check the guest out crazy things like that dont forget doing the TM-30 for every guest.

The way forward at the moment is long term bookings if you can get them,

I would say go onto Airbnb as a guest and check out what is available in the area where you are thinking of buying and see what you are up against no doubt you will find some units in the same project you are thinking of buying, then click on their calendars to see if they have any bookings when I do it where I live they have no bookings right through till next year,

Ask yourself when looking to buy would you book that condo......................? 

You live and die by the reviews on Airbnb some guest can be complete A/holes and you cannot remove them.

One more thing read the reviews from the guest will give you a good idea what people like and dont like,

Well that sounds like the voice of experience, thanks for the tips. It'd be lockbox check-in / check-out so no 4am starts fortunately. I've mostly had to get my own TM30s so I know more or less what's involved there. I've read a lot of reviews when booking for myself so I feel as though I have a reasonable picture. Right now I'm sure there will be virtually no bookings, but then these aren't normal times. It's anyone's guess when things will pick up but I would think the purchase price will reflect that so am fairly relaxed about it.

[Badger18]

2 hours ago, itsari said:

I have 5 listings on airbnb and the work involved for a short term rental is far more than just the cleaning

Yeah, I know it's not just the cleaning. I'd have to do a kind of job description for my helper. It'd be a lock-box check-in. So far I've got check over the apartment, clean, wash / replace linen,  list / take photos of any damage, go back in before next booking if it's been more than say 3 days, get TM30 details from guests once they arrive and submit, be on call for any emergencies e.g. leaks, guests locking themselves out etc (in reality though this would just be a case of calling the security / maintenance people at the building), repeat.

[ChipButty]

24 minutes ago, Badger18 said:

 

It's the type of place I normally stay in myself. I'd say the other guests are about two thirds Chinese tourists and one third western. From the reviews people seem to stay anywhere from a few days to a couple of months, but what the mix is I couldn't say. I'm not necessarily stuck on any particular end of the market, just starting with what I know. There's quite a lot to be found north of this price point so I didn't see it as that fancy, but seeing how many people on here just don't believe people pay 10k a week for accommodation in Chiang Mai I guess it must be. I have someone reliable on the ground and would plan to be in CM myself most of the time as well. Hard to know what sort of occupancy levels you get except that I often find a place I've stayed in is taken when I go to rebook. That's virtually always high season though. I can't imagine there'd be many / any bookings in low season.

Normally my experience the Chinese are only short stays they tend to move around I dont think I've ever had stay more than a week, Low season we have always done ok, The Russians for us are the best guest they like to have a good holiday stay longer not sure if you get many Russians up in CM...........? 

I have one condo we got lucky as we have had guest for the last 2 months sadly they leave this Friday they were Russians nice couple,

[ChipButty]

21 minutes ago, Badger18 said:

Well that sounds like the voice of experience, thanks for the tips. It'd be lockbox check-in / check-out so no 4am starts fortunately. I've mostly had to get my own TM30s so I know more or less what's involved there. I've read a lot of reviews when booking for myself so I feel as though I have a reasonable picture. Right now I'm sure there will be virtually no bookings, but then these aren't normal times. It's anyone's guess when things will pick up but I would think the purchase price will reflect that so am fairly relaxed about it.

I have to be honest I have never done self check in's to me it's were the trouble starts, some years ago we had a villa for 4, they turned up at 10 pm there was 9 of them, they said it's ok we sleep on the floor "No your not Sunshine"

Then another time a neighbour of mine when the guest left they emptied the house with everything they could get into a fortuna 

Couple of times guest have smuggled dogs in the list goes on,

[BritManToo]

On 6/19/2021 at 1:44 PM, Badger18 said:

It'd be a 1-bed place and would probably go for about 10k a week in high season.

Guesthouses often charge 400-500bht/night (inc elec/water) or 5k-6k/month (plus water/elec) with wifi in CM.

Can't see 10k/week getting many bookings unless it's really special.

[Peterw42]

30 minutes ago, Badger18 said:

in reality though this would just be a case of calling the security / maintenance people at the building

Security and maintenance are not there to assist your guests with problems to do with your condo. A guest locking themselves out or a leaky tap inside your condo is your reasonability.

 

You still appear to not get it, its illegal, there is little to no profit even in the middle if high season in a popular block etc. Unless you do everything yourself, you wont make any money.

Even if you find a block where airbnb is happening, a pretty good chance it will be shut down in the future, and reopening after covid will probably be an opportunity for blocks to stop Airbnb.

 

Hotel rates will be very low for the foreseeable future, if hotels reopen and are loosing money to airbnb, expect a huge crackdown.

 

Not sure how you envisage doing self check-in in a condo block, a keybox nailed to a tree outside the block ?, you cant go putting keyboxes etc on common property

[ChipButty]

7 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Security and maintenance are not there to assist your guests with problems to do with your condo. A guest locking themselves out or a leaky tap inside your condo is your reasonability.

 

 

That happened last week the guest had 2 key cards and left both of them in the room, it's happened loads of times the worst one was at 12-30 at night I had to get up and drive to the condo to let them in, <deleted> Cheers 

[Nanaplaza666]

1 hour ago, Badger18 said:

 

It's the type of place I normally stay in myself. I'd say the other guests are about two thirds Chinese tourists and one third western. From the reviews people seem to stay anywhere from a few days to a couple of months, but what the mix is I couldn't say. I'm not necessarily stuck on any particular end of the market, just starting with what I know. There's quite a lot to be found north of this price point so I didn't see it as that fancy, but seeing how many people on here just don't believe people pay 10k a week for accommodation in Chiang Mai I guess it must be. I have someone reliable on the ground and would plan to be in CM myself most of the time as well. Hard to know what sort of occupancy levels you get except that I often find a place I've stayed in is taken when I go to rebook. That's virtually always high season though. I can't imagine there'd be many / any bookings in low season.

Again someone asking for help but already having someone reliable on the ground ?? Don't understand why asking all these qeustions when already having someone reliable and got it figured out already . 10k a week really ???????? 2b2b go for around that price a month in many places at the moment . 

[Badger18]

35 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

That happened last week the guest had 2 key cards and left both of them in the room, it's happened loads of times the worst one was at 12-30 at night I had to get up and drive to the condo to let them in

I've done it myself, have to admit. Messaged the owner and she said to ask security. Thought to myself "it's hardly their responsibility" but gave it a whirl - happy to help, no problem. Some owners have one lockbox for several apartments, which can be a problem if someone takes the wrong key. That you really would have to deal with yourself. One of many pitfalls with the lockbox system. Still, I live in Airbnbs about 9 months of the year and would say that the majority are self check-in, so it seems most hosts think it's worth it. I don't really cause the hosts any problems so maybe I'm underestimating how much other people do. Plus with Chinese guests (or Russian, I guess) there would be a language barrier if anything slightly complicated did come up. I don't think I've come across any Russians in CM, not counting some guy I ran into at immigration who sounded a bit Russian but could have been from anywhere for all I know...

[Eaglekott]

When I was living around Phahonyothin I met many tourists and backpackers that had rented AirBNB. I asked a few how much they payed and noticed they payed the same or much more than my friends visiting me and was staying at Hotels in the area. Some had payed double the hotel price. So I asked why they rented AirBNB and not a hotel.

The simple answer was they never checked hotel prices in Thailand before the traveled, and simply thought it was mush cheaper.

 

I also want to mention when I lived there I rented a Condo and it was a nice quiet place with plenty of free time to use washing machines, pool and the gym. Then some one started to rent his condos (Think he had 4 or 5) through AirBNB. The guards got tons of extra work trying to help lost backpackers. Our condo turned into a party place, loud music during afternoon and evenings, then shouting and arguments in the hallways night/morning time. They used Washing machine and Tumble drier all the time, and of cause never cleaned the filers or area around. The pool area turned like a party place and was apparently something they could do even tho the rules clearly stated NO DRINKS IN THE POOL AREA. A neighbour of mine tried to point this out to a group having a party by the pool and he almost got into a fight. In the gym it sounded like they could just drop the weight to the floor. I really hated it and was on my way to find another place to stay. Luckily the office stopped this after a few months.

[Badger18]

12 minutes ago, Eaglekott said:

I also want to mention when I lived there I rented a Condo and it was a nice quiet place with plenty of free time to use washing machines, pool and the gym. Then some one started to rent his condos (Think he had 4 or 5) through AirBNB. The guards got tons of extra work trying to help lost backpackers. Our condo turned into a party place, loud music during afternoon and evenings, then shouting and arguments in the hallways night/morning time. They used Washing machine and Tumble drier all the time, and of cause never cleaned the filers or area around. The pool area turned like a party place and was apparently something they could do even tho the rules clearly stated NO DRINKS IN THE POOL AREA. A neighbour of mine tried to point this out to a group having a party by the pool and he almost got into a fight. In the gym it sounded like they could just drop the weight to the floor. I really hated it and was on my way to find another place to stay. Luckily the office stopped this after a few months.

Yeah there's definitely a dark side to Airbnb and I would be gutted if I moved somewhere and then had that kind of issue crop up. If I went ahead as per the original plan I'd be buying in a block that's already mostly Airbnb and is set up for it.

[ChipButty]

21 minutes ago, Eaglekott said:

When I was living around Phahonyothin I met many tourists and backpackers that had rented AirBNB. I asked a few how much they payed and noticed they payed the same or much more than my friends visiting me and was staying at Hotels in the area. Some had payed double the hotel price. So I asked why they rented AirBNB and not a hotel.

The simple answer was they never checked hotel prices in Thailand before the traveled, and simply thought it was mush cheaper.

 

I also want to mention when I lived there I rented a Condo and it was a nice quiet place with plenty of free time to use washing machines, pool and the gym. Then some one started to rent his condos (Think he had 4 or 5) through AirBNB. The guards got tons of extra work trying to help lost backpackers. Our condo turned into a party place, loud music during afternoon and evenings, then shouting and arguments in the hallways night/morning time. They used Washing machine and Tumble drier all the time, and of cause never cleaned the filers or area around. The pool area turned like a party place and was apparently something they could do even tho the rules clearly stated NO DRINKS IN THE POOL AREA. A neighbour of mine tried to point this out to a group having a party by the pool and he almost got into a fight. In the gym it sounded like they could just drop the weight to the floor. I really hated it and was on my way to find another place to stay. Luckily the office stopped this after a few months.

I think you will find with a lot of people they like to book a villa on airbnb is they like the freedom and the space go and do their own shopping I know the Russians like to cook at home they make full use of the villa, The Chinese not so they boil a few eggs and noodles and use the kettle to boil the noodles,

For a family in a 5 star hotel works out expensive when you add the food and drink to the bill and ++ Vat a bottle of water 120 baht out of the mini bar, I usually help my guest if they dont know the area and tell them where to go shopping and local markets, Im good like that

[ChipButty]

31 minutes ago, Badger18 said:

I've done it myself, have to admit. Messaged the owner and she said to ask security. Thought to myself "it's hardly their responsibility" but gave it a whirl - happy to help, no problem. Some owners have one lockbox for several apartments, which can be a problem if someone takes the wrong key. That you really would have to deal with yourself. One of many pitfalls with the lockbox system. Still, I live in Airbnbs about 9 months of the year and would say that the majority are self check-in, so it seems most hosts think it's worth it. I don't really cause the hosts any problems so maybe I'm underestimating how much other people do. Plus with Chinese guests (or Russian, I guess) there would be a language barrier if anything slightly complicated did come up. I don't think I've come across any Russians in CM, not counting some guy I ran into at immigration who sounded a bit Russian but could have been from anywhere for all I know...

Where my condo is it's like Little Moscow at the moment, it's popular with Russians but they all seem ok

[Eaglekott]

5 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

For a family in a 5 star hotel works out expensive when you add the food and drink to the bill and ++ Vat a bottle of water 120 baht out of the mini bar,

Not sure why you compare AirBNB with 5 star hotel? Maybe a normal Bed And Breakfast would be a bit more correct.