I want to whine about the West and "woke" generation

[BKKBike09]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

I applaud the thoughtfulness of your post, but I don't agree with the argument that present day generations who continue to benefit from historical injustices committed by past generations bear no responsibility for these past injustices. At the very least they should make an effort to acknowledge that these injustices occurred and aren't being perpetuated present day. Labeling every effort to highlight inequities in police brutality, incarceration rates, access to health care and educational opportunities, income and wealth disparities as just another (yawn) example of "woke" culture, seems to me to be a very cynical attempt to tune out these realities simply because they're too uncomfortable for the listener to deal with.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond in a similarly thoughtful manner.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that present day generations should make an effort to acknowledge that injustices occurred and, importantly, aren't being perpetuated. But I disagree they should also take any responsibility for past injustices. Acknowledging them, and supporting remedial action where appropriate, should be enough.

[Mavideol]

" Home is where the heart Is "

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

I'd have thought it was self evidently "all humans on the planet", whether they realise it or not. I don't think there's an 'opt out' button for this. 

You said "We're in the midst of the biggest societal changes for generations" which applies mainly to western nations, which are a minority of "we" on the planet.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that western nations are more important than all the rest put together. Just because that's what we get told by the woke western media does not make it true.

[BKKBike09]

25 minutes ago, rumak said:

"We would all be better served by focusing on the challenges of the future rather than beating ourselves up over the myriad injustices of the distant past:"

 

 

AS for the first part ( above) .  Yes, true.   But these changes have been going on for as long as i can remember.    One might say the world is going downhill ,  not fast,  just slowww and steadyyy.                     

As for the challenges of the future.   Well,  same situation.  Talk, talk, talk.   Politicians, social visionaries,  billionaire "philanthropists" ,   all the same BS.   This is not like a football game where one side is doing good ,  but the other side seems to be turning the tide around.

 

The reason I say that the current pace of change and range of issues is unprecedented is all down to population pressure. The difference until very recently was that population growth was still not a major issue. The global population today however is more than double what it was just 50 years ago.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/world-population-growth

 

But you're right, some things don't change. Let's leave the last word to Dylan, from 1963:

 

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'

 

 

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, cdemundo said:

You are right to feel disgusted.

It's virtue signaling.

Does nothing to help anyone or resolve any pain.

There must be some kind of pleasure-inducing neurotransmitter released by self-righteous anger and phony outrage.

The mistreatment of indigenous people in Canada (USA, Australia, you name it) was a cruel tragedy, but this seems like phony outrage to me.

Thomas J's post shortly above yours is a great example of someone working themselves into a self-righteous lather for their own pleasure and to rehearse and reinforce their own opinion.

[Gecko123]

27 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond in a similarly thoughtful manner.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that present day generations should make an effort to acknowledge that injustices occurred and, importantly, aren't being perpetuated. But I disagree they should also take any responsibility for past injustices. Acknowledging them, and supporting remedial action where appropriate, should be enough.

Thank you for your equally thoughtful reply. I think we are on the same page. I recognize there are limits to how much responsibility can feasibly be shouldered for past mistakes, and I don't think people should be put on permanent guilt trips. But I do think that in order for true reconciliation to occur, honest acknowledgement and a genuine commitment to remedial action needs to be taken. Just as an example, I think ongoing remedial action would be far more preferable then any one-time reparation payment. I worry that a reparations payment would imply that any past injustice has now been corrected once and for all, and that there would never again be a further need to address any injustices which persisted.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Gecko123

[ICELANDMAN]

14 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

It's not racism if you hate everyone equally.  ????

 

I agree but on this case your are a psychopath.

 

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 6/26/2021 at 8:44 AM, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

I'm a left leaning person, and take exception to this woke business as well. It's shameless pandering. It's low hanging fruit. It's scoring some quick and easy brownie points, with slogans, selfies, and hashtags that look good in the social media age. #savethisandthat, #standupforwhatever. It doesn't get much done.

 

Let's all be sure to use the correct pronouns, inclusive terminology, make sure we've met all the diversity quotas, tore down those offensive statues, changed the names of those things named after some people, cancel those holidays.

 

Meanwhile, let's just ignore the growing homeless encampments, drug addicted zombies staggering through the streets, the lack of affordable housing, the lack of decent paying jobs, the real problems facing much of the Western world. In fact, that almost seems to be the agenda. Keep making noise about that other stuff, so as to be occupied and distracted.

 

Oh, I'm not going to make rent this month because I couldn't get that raise, and my doorstep's become the neighborhood toilet? No time to worry about that now. I've got to get to that march on City Hall, protesting the horrific lack of Drag Queen Storytime in the public library.

What the woke  brigade  needs is ,and  as  horrible as it  sounds, is a  WAR  to show them the reality of life.

[Rampant Rabbit]

17 minutes ago, ICELANDMAN said:

 

I agree but on this case your are a psychopath.

 

U god damn psychophobe you????

[ICELANDMAN]

2 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

U god damn psychophobe you????

 

Yes unfortunately I know psychopathy as well as my father was.

[Rampant Rabbit]

3 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

I'm half Jewish

Isnt  that a  belief  system though and not a  race.

[Rampant Rabbit]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

You're wrong,

It's the inevitable end to letting white women be in control.

In countries where there are no white women, it doesn't happen.

 you  mean  like the ones where they cut  their clitorises  off????

[2009]

38 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Thank you for your equally thoughtful reply. I think we are on the same page. I recognize there are limits to how much responsibility can feasibly be shouldered for past mistakes, and I don't think people should be put on permanent guilt trips. But I do think that in order for true reconciliation to occur, honest acknowledgement and a genuine commitment to remedial action needs to be taken. Just as an example, I think ongoing remedial action would be far more preferable then any one-time reparation payment. I worry that a reparations payment would imply that any past injustice has now been corrected once and for all, and that there would never again be a further need to address any injustices which persisted.

 

 

On the same page?

 

Get a room, you two! Lol.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, 2009 said:

 

On the same page?

 

Get a room, you two! Lol.

One of the seven deadly sins rears its ugly head.....555

[2009]

10 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

 you  mean  like the ones where they cut  their clitorises  off????

 

Sorry if I am at risk of sounding "woke" here (perish the thought), but those who cut female genitalia are no worse than those who cut male genitalia -- and before you point out the difference -- I don't give a damn which piece of skin it is or what the function of that piece of skin is.

 

If it ain't a medical procedure - leave it be!

 

Cosmetic and religious circumcision are all just as bad as each other.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by 2009

[Surelynot]

Just now, 2009 said:

 

Sorry if I am at risk of sounding "woke" here (perish the thought), but those who cut female genitalia are no worse than those who cut male genitalia -- and before you point out the difference -- I don't give a damn which piece of skin it is or what its function of that piece of skin is.

 

If it ain't a medical procedure - leave it be!

 

Cosmetic and religious circumcision are all just as bad each other.

Hardly as bad as each other......(although both are criminally insane).......losing your foreskin is 'nothing' compared the FGM.......unless you were, for males, referring to the Indian eunuchs.....that is truly the worst and most horrific.

[BobinBKK]

I thinks it's about time we cancel them and everyone else's stupid cancel <deleted>!

[Salerno]

On 6/26/2021 at 11:44 AM, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Let's all be sure to use the correct pronouns,

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-27/hugh-sheridan-non-binary/100247282

 

????

[2009]

3 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Hardly as bad as each other......(although both are criminally insane).......losing your foreskin is 'nothing' compared the FGM.......unless you were, for males, referring to the Indian eunuchs.....that is truly the worst and most horrific.

 

Well, without getting into it too much, some forms of FGM are identical to male circumcision, like in Sumatra (they only remove the hood and leave the clitoris alone), but can you ever see that being legal in the west? Nope, cos it involves girls, rather than boys.

 

My EX is from Java. She had the type you are talking about: the clitoris was removed. I had just learned that was even a thing. I was disgusted. But she was cool with it. No problems as a result. She could even still orgasm easily.

 

But my main point is: cutting off any part of any baby's genitals for religious, cultural, or cosmetic reasons is just sick, irrespective of any details you can throw at me. It is all the same to me.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, 2009 said:

 

 

 

But my main point is: cutting off any part of any baby's genitals for religious, cultural, or cosmetic reasons is just sick, irrespective of any details you can throw at me. It is all the same to me.

ABSOLUTELY.....100%.....sick....okay if you are over 18, of sound mind (very arguable) and choose to do something like this....otherwise to subject anyone under 18 to this should be  a criminal offense...... unless for good medical reasons.

[rumak]

1 hour ago, BKKBike09 said:

Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'

 

 

i hate to sound like our grandfathers before us...... but i don't like the "new one (road)"

The change Dylan had in mind I definitely do not think was the road we are now on.

 

On the other hand...... I am 100%  in agreement that population growth (exponential) has

been IMO  probably the second most destructive reason behind what the world has become.  The first would be a very long topic focusing on the mismanagement of this very complex thing we call  "life on earth "  by a very small percentage of self-serving rulers.           

 

too much heavy thinking on a sunday............. man,  i feel all tangled up in blue 

Edited June 27, 2021 by rumak

[2009]

4 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

ABSOLUTELY.....100%.....sick....okay if you are over 18, of sound mind (very arguable) and choose to do something like this....otherwise to subject anyone under 18 to this should be  a criminal offense...... unless for good medical reasons.

 

Exactly!

 

And I wonder when these woke feminists will put it on their agenda to tackle (excuse the pun) the issue of male circumcision.

 

Never.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by 2009

[Surelynot]

4 minutes ago, 2009 said:

 

Exactly!

 

And I wonder when these woke feminists will put it on their agenda to tackle (excuse the pun) the issue of male circumcision.

 

Never.

 

I have always reeled at the thought that is so easily accepted as a thing.........people just shrug it off....but I am certain that is because you are "not allowed to question the antics of any religion!".........nothing to do with female activism being negligent or unconcerned.

[BangkokReady]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I would say that it's the inevitable end to having hardly any male teachers. In case anyone hasn't been paying attention, males generally don't become teachers any more because of, IMO, the hysteria over pedo men back a few decades.

Soooo, for decades, children have been shaped by females, many with, IMO, an agenda.

 

And it's a self-perpetuating cycle.  Less male influence leads to female dominated professions, which leads to a culture of sexist double standards and hating men, which leads to even fewer male teachers.

 

Who would want to go into teaching as a man these days?  As you say, you're probably going to be under a microscope in almost any interaction you have with the children, while women are free to behave however they want.  Meanwhile you are going to be constantly walking on eggshells being careful what you say, complain or joke about around everyone, because even the other males in these fields seem to be simpering male feminists who can't do any other job.

 

Especially if you have the original sin of being a straight White male.  Once young minority kids realise how much power they're being given over teachers in terms of accusations of racism, education in the West is going to be done for.

 

Children need consistency and discipline.  If these are removed through wokeness, their education is going to do more harm than good.

[canthai55]

"Oh yes the glory of America, how could we forget since you American people never shut up about it

Here's US history in a nutshell :

 

1)millions of pounds invested in new British colonies

1. 1.  

2)France tries to invade but Britain defends its colonies at the cost of 120,000 lives in the world's first truly global war

 

3) ungrateful colonists refuse to contribute to the costs of this war despite the wealth of the land

 

4) US propaganda brands king George a tyrant - the King who ended slavery and spent 40% of Britain's GDP buying their freedom

5) US revolts and is on the verge of losing its own revolutionary war until the French intervene

 

6) Britain occupied by total war with Napoleon and has its real armies on the continent

 

7) Britain cuts its losses and goes on to defeat Napoleon and restore the sovereignty of the nations of Europe

8)US claims victory and begins its life with a national attitude of arrogance

 

9) US continues slavery for another 60 years and has to have a civil war to resolve the matter

10) claims to be the greatest country in the world despite the fact that they established their nation on millions of pounds of stolen property, slave labour and genocide of the natives

11) does little to help France during 2 world wars despite France being instrumental in their revolution

12) content to let Britain and Europe suffer until Japan drags them into the war 13) goes on to completely mess up the world order for the next 6 decades

14) society starts to crumble, many live in poverty and social unrest plagues the nation.Yet it still screeches hysterically about its manifest destiny

15) world at large getting sick of their sheet".

Edited June 27, 2021 by canthai55

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, ICELANDMAN said:

 

I agree but on this case your are a psychopath.

 

 

Possibly, but not a racist psychopath.  ????

[digibum]

5 hours ago, Thomas J said:

If there truly was sincere regard for the well being of people in impoverished nations the act should be to help them enrich the life in their country for all of that regions citizens.

I’m fairly left leaning on social issues but this is one that I don’t understand.  
 

Like, hundreds or thousands of people will flee Guatemala or some other country, March through 3 or 4 other countries, and the people will be <deleted> that they weren’t allowed to enter the US.  
 

I mean, sometimes these group migrations are televised.  It’s not like they’re sneaking through all of these other countries.  
 

What was wrong with all of the countries they passed through?   
 

If you’re scared some cartel in your country is going to kill you, why aren’t you safe once you make it to another country?   
 

I would even be in favor of the US financially assisting those governments with refugees as an act of humanitarian goodwill.   

 

But I don’t understand why the US is the bad guy for not wanting to take everyone.  
 

BTW, I don’t believe we need to shut our doors either. 
 

I’m just saying that the argument is being framed as if the US won’t take them, they’ll have to go back to their country and face certain death.  
 

There are other possibilities.   Those aren’t the only two options.  

[from the home of CC]

7 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

I'm half Jewish by blood (Eastern European Jewry). So should I demand to hold to account all modern day European citizens from nations that, in historic times, violently persecuted Jews? Not just the Germans under Hitler, but the numerous pogroms against European Jews from the C12th onwards? Of course not. It's much more important to learn from history and, rather than try to blame people today for the sins of their forefathers, acknowledge that terrible events happened and work together to try and prevent them from happening again.

 

Equally, because I'm half Jewish, should I be blamed for Israel's actions against the Palestinians? Perhaps since I'm a middle-aged white bloke without the 'lived experience' of those events, I have no right to a view?

 

Personally, I find the 'woke' culture more depressing than anything else, because it seems to me that, thanks to the ubiquity and power of social media, a generation of young people are growing up leery of holding or expressing any opinion that could be deemed controversial. 

 

We're in the midst of the biggest societal changes for generations, if not ever: unprecedented population levels, unprecedented demands on the natural environment, unprecedented global connectivity both physical (transport) and virtual, unprecedented gulf between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. We would all be better served by focusing on the challenges of the future rather than beating ourselves up over the myriad injustices of the distant past.

 

if you forget the past it tends to repeat - you should know this better than most people..

[spidermike007]

Though I am not conservative, at all, I find the whole woke thing, and the overly PC thing, to be nauseating. Everyone seems to be able to find something to be offended about these days. 

 

Remember Don Rickles? He would likely be assassinated by a woke, today. Where has all the humor gone? Why are so many so thin skinned? Is it a societal self esteem issue? 

 

Pandering. Just pandering. Don't have time for it. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by spidermike007

[BangkokReady]

16 minutes ago, digibum said:

What was wrong with all of the countries they passed through?   
 

If you’re scared some cartel in your country is going to kill you, why aren’t you safe once you make it to another country?   

 

We get the same thing in the UK.  Passing through many perfectly safe countries, even European countries, then jumping in a dingy and heading over to England.  Most not even coming from countries that are dangerous in any way at all, just poor.

 

Everybody lies about it.  The people smugglers say "all you have to do is get there and they give you free money and a house" (not completely untrue), do-gooders say they must be coming from somewhere dangerous if they're willing to do this "they just want safety", then the migrants lie and try to claim they come from a dangerous country or they face persecution, and the whole thing is a lie simply because they passed through so many safe countries on the way, they aren't refugees.

 

I don't blame the migrants, I might do the same thing myself, but you can't just let them all in.