Update on Thailand's vaccination programme and our response

[jomtienisgood]

28 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

I'm not aware of the Thai government's stopping them.  It's the Embassies and their masters in the home countries that are utterly indifferent to the fate of their overseas citizens.

????? Not sure, Possibly yes...

[British Consular Team]

On 7/2/2021 at 10:20 AM, homeseeker said:

Paul says:

 

"Thai government is responsible for the roll-out of vaccines in Thailand and that the UK cannot provide them. Thailand has made it clear that the programme will cover foreigners as well as Thais; our job is to do what we can to help that happen."

(emphasis added)

 

So as u confirm you will help... tell us British passport holders where to go to get the vaccine here in Bangkok?

If you sign up for our weekly bulletin on vaccines, we can tell you where Thai authorities are offering vaccines. Send a message to [email protected]. 

[British Consular Team]

On 7/2/2021 at 3:28 PM, Eff1n2ret said:

I'm simply responding to the OP. One hopes that the Consulate communicates both ways, not only passing on the Foreign Office's "line to take", but also feeding back the opinions of people who, in the prevailing circumstances feel somewhat abandoned.

This is a good point. And we are doing this, yes. We are reporting back to the centre pretty much constantly and in detail on the situation in Thailand, the vaccination programme, the challenges, and the concerns of the British community here. 

[British Consular Team]

On 7/3/2021 at 1:26 PM, Uroller said:

Pathetic letter from the British Consular office,  You might want to read the Consular charter and learn about what your responsibility is with regards to UK citizens overseas , especially those still paying taxes! Let me remind you that this is a world Pandemic not seen in our lifetime before and just as rules were changed in the UK to protect people from Covid, rules should be changed in foreign countries! Churchill didn’t abandon UK citizens rights during WW2 for those stranded overseas, he didn’t abandon POW rights for those brave fighters stuck in Nazi camps and he didn’t abandon German prisoner rights for those held in the UK! For the Consular office to say this is not part of the NHS responsibility you are saying that the NHS does not have the ability to “ react” to something that is not the norm! The French have stepped up and don’t the right thing, the UK needs to step up or you will be inundated with requests to help patriate victims of a Thai government mismanagement of this pandemic, If you cannot react to this pandemic maybe you had better stock up on  body bags that might be required to return taxpaying UK citizens to their homeland???????????? Or in the words of the British Embassy “Not my problem”

I'm sorry you felt this about my message. But it is helpful that you mention the Consular Charter. I would be happy to address your specific concerns if you could identify which part of the statement you have in mind.

[Tony M]

29 minutes ago, British Consular Team said:

I'm sorry you felt this about my message. But it is helpful that you mention the Consular Charter. I would be happy to address your specific concerns if you could identify which part of the statement you have in mind.

I asked some questions a week ago, but have not seen that they have been addressed in any of your responses. For ease of reference, parts of my post follow, with some additions :

 

 

I do understand your statements on the FCDO's duty of care to its staff. But I'm wondering what the FCDO's duty of care to its citizens overseas is. I have read your published webpage on crises overseas (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-deal-with-a-crisis-overseas), and I'm wondering when the current pandemic becomes a "crisis" in the eyes of the UK government ?  The fact that your own staff (and others) have been vaccinated would seem to indicate that the FCDO considers you to be in a crisis situation ? Where is the line between duty of care to FCDO staff only and duty of care to British citizens in danger of death ? When is that line crossed ?   Is the current situation in Thailand considered to be a crisis by the British Embassy in Bangkok and the FCDO ?

Have you invited all vulnerable British citizens to register with the Embassy ?  That might be a good idea (proactive at least) in the event that someone in a position of "power" actually decides that UK citizens overseas are actually in danger of death. 

 

Question : How many Embassy staff and family members have received vaccination in Thailand, and who was included in this vaccination drive ?  UK-based staff I can understand, but who else ?  Locally-engaged staff ?  Families of locally-engaged staff ?  British Council staff and their families ?  Honorary Consuls and their family members ?  Exactly who has been vaccinated, and how many ?     Using the  wording of your Charter on the duty of care to employees, how many of those who were vaccinated are FCDO "employees" ?

 

I would say that your Charter definition of a "crisis" fully fits the current situation in Thailand (Major incidents that affect a large number of British nationals abroad may call for levels of response beyond those we describe on pages 25-28 of this guide). The fact that the FCDO considered it necessary to vaccinate its "employees" in Thailand would seem to add weight to this, as the FCDO "will not send staff into a situation where we judge that their safety could be seriously at risk".  If your staff are considered to be seriously at risk, then surely other British citizens are also very vulnerable and at serious risk ?  Your Charter also says :

 

"In very exceptional circumstances we will seek Ministerial authorisation to enhance the level of support we are able to provide in order to assist those caught up in such incidents and at risk of harm."  Have you done this ?

 

I think that most of us, that is the Brits in Thailand, would consider the pandemic to be a very exceptional circumstance and that we are risk of harm. Do you not agree ?

[Eff1n2ret]

6 hours ago, Tony M said:

I think that most of us, that is the Brits in Thailand, would consider the pandemic to be a very exceptional circumstance and that we are risk of harm. Do you not agree

That is the essential point. The FCO's stance is that it is not "government policy" to administer medical treatment outside the NHS. But it wasn't "government policy" to lay on repatriation flights for UK citizens early last year, it was a practical response to an exceptional circumstance.

If the Consulate does not consider the Covid pandemic an exceptional circumstance, or that people like you and I are not at risk, or that we have a realistic prospect, despite our efforts to fend for ourselves, of being vaccinated any time this year, let them come out and say so.

[Scott]

An inflammatory post has been reported and removed.   The British Consular threads are a service.  If you have a question, feel free to ask.   Not always liking the answer is to be expected, but you will stay on topic and treat posters with respect or you will face a suspension.   Here's the rule:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

 

[Doctor Tom]

On 7/7/2021 at 12:43 PM, Oxx said:

 

I'm not aware of the Thai government's stopping them.  It's the Embassies and their masters in the home countries that are utterly indifferent to the fate of their overseas citizens.

 

9 hours ago, British Consular Team said:

This is a good point. And we are doing this, yes. We are reporting back to the centre pretty much constantly and in detail on the situation in Thailand, the vaccination programme, the challenges, and the concerns of the British community here. 

To a deafening silence from London presumably? 

[jayboy]

16 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

If the Consulate does not consider the Covid pandemic an exceptional circumstance, or that people like you and I are not at risk, or that we have a realistic prospect, despite our efforts to fend for ourselves, of being vaccinated any time this year, let them come out and say so.

That's an unfair position to take.Everybody is aware these are exceptional times and the Consulate is doing its best to help. But it needs to be said again that the Thai Government's failures leave everyone exposed.I am beginning to think that those who can (I know this excludes most) should return to the UK to be vaccinated.

 

Please take the time to read the account below:

 

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1412644275980963841.html

[Oxx]

55 minutes ago, jayboy said:

the Consulate (sic) is doing its best to help

Do you really believe that? Can you really not think of things you could do to help if you were the Ambassador? I know I can.  Publicly shaming the FCO for its inaction would probably be number one on my list.  Number two would be talking to the French Ambassador about how to arrange vaccination for my country's citizens if I were too stupid to figure it out for myself.

[rbkk]

On 7/10/2021 at 11:31 AM, British Consular Team said:

If you sign up for our weekly bulletin on vaccines, we can tell you where Thai authorities are offering vaccines. Send a message to [email protected]. 

Is this correct? I copy/pasted this into messages on this site and my E-mail account and it doesn't work in both places. Anyone else with a problem?

edit: YOU NEED TO USE A SEMI COLON AT THE END OF THE ADDRESS NOT A FULL-STOP! 

Edited July 11, 2021 by rbkk
Wrong E-mail Address

[OJAS]

On 7/2/2021 at 3:50 PM, chrisdom said:

1) that the UK govt would only change policy for all ex-pats anywhere in the world - not just for Thailand. This would be far more than 100,000 doses.

 

On 7/2/2021 at 4:41 PM, Bangkok Barry said:

But 100,000 for the world, not just Thailand, won't cut it.

But HMG is planning to donate more than 100,000,000 surplus doses worldwide under the Great Vaccine Giveaway announced with considerable pride by Boris Johnson in advance of the G7 Summit last month!

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57436535

 

This would more than cover the vaccination needs for British expats worldwide, surely?

 

HMG policy is, by default as I see it, aimed at ensuring that each and every person on this great planet of ours, regardless of their nationality or location, is to benefit from these surplus doses - unless, of course, they are a British expat. Absolutely disgraceful IMHO.

 

 

[WaveHunter]

On 7/7/2021 at 12:25 PM, jomtienisgood said:

After the French, now the Swiss, we'll all be up next by the end of the year...On a serious note it would only be beneficiary to the Th Government to allow all Embassies to take care of their own Nationals.....

The Thai government has put no roadblocks up preventing foreign governments from vaccinating their expat populations here in Thailand.

 

In fact when the French embassy stated that it would procure vaccines and vaccinate expats here in Thailand, Thai officials agreed with the principle of foreign governments looking after their own citizens: 

 

Thailand’s public health minister, Anutin Charnvirakul said that the department of Disease Control agrees to the basic principle that ANY country which is able to take care of its citizens can import vaccines which are registered with Thailand’s FDA to inoculate their nationals.

 

So, the sentiment expressed by embassies on behalf of home governments saying this could not be done due to political considerations with Thailand was disingenuous at best.

[OJAS]

On 7/10/2021 at 12:34 PM, Tony M said:

Have you invited all vulnerable British citizens to register with the Embassy ?  That might be a good idea (proactive at least) in the event that someone in a position of "power" actually decides that UK citizens overseas are actually in danger of death. 

@British Consular TeamMight the most practical way of implementing this particular suggestion be through a revival of the LOCATE system, and do your FCDO masters in Whitehall have any plans for doing this? Although this system was discontinued a number of years ago owing to a low rate of usage, I strongly suspect that it would likely be more widely used now in the COVID-19 era. Not only would such a move, in all probability, prove reassuring to expats here in Thailand, but also to those in other parts of the world where similar issues arise.

Edited July 11, 2021 by OJAS

[jomtienisgood]

9 hours ago, OJAS said:

@British Consular TeamMight the most practical way of implementing this particular suggestion be through a revival of the LOCATE system, and do your FCDO masters in Whitehall have any plans for doing this? Although this system was discontinued a number of years ago owing to a low rate of usage, I strongly suspect that it would likely be more widely used now in the COVID-19 era. Not only would such a move, in all probability, prove reassuring to expats here in Thailand, but also to those in other parts of the world where similar issues arise.

I couldn't agree more with your statement. Myself not being British I am registered at my Embassy, as most of the expats of several Nationalities I know.. It is normal and sometimes helpful to be registered..Obviously I am not familiar with the British retirement system. That may , possibly, be an obstacle for many to register????

[Eff1n2ret]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:17 PM, treetops said:

 

Sign-up here from next Monday from 09:00 - 12:00.

 

https://phyathai2international.com/

 

Started trying at 08.50hrs - "Hmmm... Can't reach this page" Repeatedly hit the refresh button, and was just about to give up at 09.30hrs, when up came the application form! I filled it in, hit the 'submit' button and got a message that they were no longer accepting applications.

What a waste of time.

[Tony M]

1 hour ago, Eff1n2ret said:

Started trying at 08.50hrs - "Hmmm... Can't reach this page" Repeatedly hit the refresh button, and was just about to give up at 09.30hrs, when up came the application form! I filled it in, hit the 'submit' button and got a message that they were no longer accepting applications.

What a waste of time.

Very similar experience. The form eventually appeared at around 09.23 hrs. I filled it, did the Captcha, submit, and it came back "sorry quota full".  This was a registration process that is supposed to be open every day this week from 09.00 to 12.00 hrs. How could it be full within a minute or so ?  Maybe they only had one dose  to give out, or maybe the quota was already full before the form, in English, was promulgated to the ex-pat community. ?  This whole process is pathetic, seemingly designed so that non-Thais cannot register, frustrating, stressful and life-threatening. Again, I request the Consul to lobby the senior members of the Embassy to put some "pressure" on the Thai MOPH to treat non-Thais the way they are treated as equals in other countries. 

[Eff1n2ret]

34 minutes ago, Tony M said:

Maybe they only had one dose  to give

I just went on their website again. It says that the quota is limited (100 persons per day), but you can try again tomorrow. I suppose that means that the total quota is 300, who knows, but if that is the case then the exercise seems designed to generate publicity for the hospital rather than make a serious contribution to the vaccine drive in Thailand.

Perhaps it's the leftovers from the French programme

I never had much luck with the National Lottery (UK) either.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Eff1n2ret

[OJAS]

6 hours ago, Tony M said:

Again, I request the Consul to lobby the senior members of the Embassy to put some "pressure" on the Thai MOPH to treat non-Thais the way they are treated as equals in other countries. 

I am seriously beginning to wonder either whether those with whom the Embassy liaises in the MOPH (and the Thai government more widely) are telling them face-saving porkies, or whether it is more a case of key messages from on high simply not filtering down to the lower ranks on the ground for some reason. I am inclined to opt for the latter, but solely on the grounds that it mirrors our collective experiences with individual immigration offices! 

Edited July 12, 2021 by OJAS

[jomtienisgood]

22 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I just went on their website again. It says that the quota is limited (100 persons per day), but you can try again tomorrow. I suppose that means that the total quota is 300, who knows, but if that is the case then the exercise seems designed to generate publicity for the hospital rather than make a serious contribution to the vaccine drive in Thailand.

Perhaps it's the leftovers from the French programme

I never had much luck with the National Lottery (UK) either.

 

Tomorrow is another day, problem being tomorrow after tomorrow upon tomorrow.....

[Oxx]

25 minutes ago, jomtienisgood said:

Tomorrow is another day, problem being tomorrow after tomorrow upon tomorrow.....

... Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,

To the last syllable of recorded time?

[Eff1n2ret]

I wonder if the Consul would ask the relevant Thai Ministry what the requirements are for a foreigner to be vaccinated in a Government hospital. This morning I went to our local hospital and was refused registration because I do not have a yellow book - something I have never needed in the 11+ years I have been living here. I presented my passport which clearly shows my residence status, and my driving licence which shows my address - (the licence has invariably been accepted on its own as proof of i/d to check in to hotels or board domestic flights). It therefore looks as if this hospital, or the individual clerk, have imposed their own requirements to avoid registering a 'farang'.

Could the Consul therefore establish whether possession of a yellow book is mandatory for registration for a vaccine, and if not, request that instruction be issued in the strongest terms to cease this abuse.

[British Consular Team]

On 7/11/2021 at 12:42 PM, Oxx said:

Do you really believe that? Can you really not think of things you could do to help if you were the Ambassador? I know I can.  Publicly shaming the FCO for its inaction would probably be number one on my list.  Number two would be talking to the French Ambassador about how to arrange vaccination for my country's citizens if I were too stupid to figure it out for myself.

Although I consider part of this post to be abusive and would normally report it, I will leave it here as I would like to observe that it is unrealistic to expect the Ambassador to publicly shame the organisation he works for, in any circumstances.  

[British Consular Team]

On 7/11/2021 at 12:52 PM, rbkk said:

Is this correct? I copy/pasted this into messages on this site and my E-mail account and it doesn't work in both places. Anyone else with a problem?

edit: YOU NEED TO USE A SEMI COLON AT THE END OF THE ADDRESS NOT A FULL-STOP! 

The full stop is for the end of the sentence, not the end of the address. 

[British Consular Team]

5 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I wonder if the Consul would ask the relevant Thai Ministry what the requirements are for a foreigner to be vaccinated in a Government hospital. This morning I went to our local hospital and was refused registration because I do not have a yellow book - something I have never needed in the 11+ years I have been living here. I presented my passport which clearly shows my residence status, and my driving licence which shows my address - (the licence has invariably been accepted on its own as proof of i/d to check in to hotels or board domestic flights). It therefore looks as if this hospital, or the individual clerk, have imposed their own requirements to avoid registering a 'farang'.

Could the Consul therefore establish whether possession of a yellow book is mandatory for registration for a vaccine, and if not, request that instruction be issued in the strongest terms to cease this abuse.

We will check this point, yes. And if you DM us the details of the hospital you went to we will try to confirm their policy too, if this is different.

[WaveHunter]

6 minutes ago, British Consular Team said:

We will check this point, yes. And if you DM us the details of the hospital you went to we will try to confirm their policy too, if this is different.

Wow, as an American citizen, I wish my own embassy had the gumption to be on this forum, taking the heat from frustrated and angry expat citizens and handling it as well as you folks seem to be doing, and also sounding like you genuinely care and want to help.  Well done...kudos to you!

Edited July 13, 2021 by WaveHunter

[scubascuba3]

19 minutes ago, British Consular Team said:

We will check this point, yes. And if you DM us the details of the hospital you went to we will try to confirm their policy too, if this is different.

Presumably all the British Consular team have been vaccinated by now?

[British Consular Team]

On 7/2/2021 at 3:58 PM, 4MyEgo said:

I'm not British, but hey, everyone see's what's going on here, governments are nothing but corporate entities who don't give a rats a$$ about their citizens if they live overseas, it's as if an ex employer is saying to an ex employee, well you wanted to leave.

 

But you can come back and use the facilities here if you like.

 

Thanks for this comment, 4MyEgo. You can see some good examples of how we give a rat's a$$ about our citizens here. 

[British Consular Team]

On 7/11/2021 at 7:18 PM, OJAS said:

@British Consular TeamMight the most practical way of implementing this particular suggestion be through a revival of the LOCATE system, and do your FCDO masters in Whitehall have any plans for doing this? Although this system was discontinued a number of years ago owing to a low rate of usage, I strongly suspect that it would likely be more widely used now in the COVID-19 era. Not only would such a move, in all probability, prove reassuring to expats here in Thailand, but also to those in other parts of the world where similar issues arise.

Good question. There are no plans to revive LOCATE, no. But if you request our vaccines bulletin and so give us permission to keep your contact data, we will make sure you hear about anything important quickly. 

[richard_smith237]

17 minutes ago, British Consular Team said:

Good question. There are no plans to revive LOCATE, no. But if you request our vaccines bulletin and so give us permission to keep your contact data, we will make sure you hear about anything important quickly. 

 

@ The British Consular Team: 

 

Given the numbers of British nationals residing in Thailand I recognise the near logistical impossibility of vaccinating us all. Equally so, I recognise the poor optics of vaccinating foreign nationals on Thai soil ahead of our hosts. I also recognise the value of our British representatives in Thailand lobbying the Thai government in an attempt to improve the vaccination opportunities for British Nationals in Thailand and hope that other missions are placing the same pressure on the Thai government.

 

Unfortunately any pressure placed on the Thai government manifest itself as an announcement from time to time by very little action. The Thai-Intervac site was an example of this. 

 

For the vast majority of Thai’s the vaccine roll out in Thailand has been extremely poor, the vaccine roll out for foreigners residing in Thailand has been poor to the extent of being non-existent for many if not most foreigners in Thailand, particularly those outside of Bangkok. 

 

While there have been opportunities for some to secure vaccination (i.e via the Mor Promp app, or through their company) for many, particularly retirees there has been very little to no opportunity to receive the vaccine.

 

I was saddened by the story of one particular British Citizen in Thailand who at 90 years old, with COPD has been unable to secure vaccination. I am sure there are many in a similar situation. 

 

The British Embassy is clearly unable to secure vaccination for the majority of British nationals in Thailand, however, I would urge the British Embassy to take steps to secure vaccination for those most vulnerable in high risk groups. 

 

 

Having received the vaccinations (one in Thailand one overseas) this issue is not of personal consequence, however, I recognise the opportunity the British Embassy have to make a significant impact for those in high risk groups and believe if not already doing so, steps should be taken to support British Citizens in high risk groups.