International Fraud - how to proceed

[Liverpool Lou]

8 minutes ago, Pete70 said:

11 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Just 34 days ago he told you that when he finds the person he sent the his and your money to you'll get your money back, that's how.    

If that was believable - what is the reason for refusing to communicate?

To quote you, "your <deleted>ty attitude and bossy manner", perhaps?    

[Pete70]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

To quote you, "your <deleted>ty attitude and bossy manner", perhaps?    

 

Sure, if you're panicking and worried you just lost $12000, I'd wager to see that anyone can lose their politeness.

 

No reason to just run off with the money and ghost the person, is it?

 

[Liverpool Lou]

9 minutes ago, Pete70 said:

 

Let me try and reach his boss at IBM. I have his email address.

 

What's your private arrangement got to do with his boss at IBM?

[Pete70]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

What's your private arrangement got to do with his boss at IBM?

 

To see if he still works there? Or if there are more things out of order that I wasn't aware of?

 

 

[sanuk711]

I think you are being to tough on him--

When you needed his help- he was there to lend you money

---and happy just to take it back it drips.

 

You decide to go into a businesses together, of which it seems you know little about, but he has all the knowledge. When he (thinks ) he sees a way of saving money for you both on the outset of the business -- It fails. If it hadn't then you would also have reaped the reward. But as it didn't your now calling this "International Fraud"  and looking to take him to court. The court will take years (I have just finished a 3 year one against a Thai Company) isn't it worth waiting until you can make the journey and see him, talk with him.

International Fraud is a criminal offense--do you really think thats what your friend is guilty of---or just a business mistake in which you both got burnt.

[Pete70]

1 minute ago, sanuk711 said:

I think you are being to tough on him--

When you needed his help- he was there to lend you money

---and happy just to take it back it drips.

 

You decide to go into a businesses together, of which it seems you know little about, but he has all the knowledge. When he (thinks ) he sees a way of saving money for you both on the outset of the business -- It fails. If it hadn't then you would also have reaped the reward. But as it didn't your now calling this "International Fraud"  and looking to take him to court. The court will take years (I have just finished a 3 year one against a Thai Company) isn't it worth waiting until you can make the journey and see him, talk with him.

International Fraud is a criminal offense--do you really think thats what your friend is guilty of---or just a business mistake in which you both got burnt.

 

That was my thought exactly, yes.

 

But after a whole month of ghosting, and further blocking any attempts of making contact? It's too much.

 

I'm no legal expert - it is what I think fraud is, I could be totally wrong there. No idea.

 

[Liverpool Lou]

6 minutes ago, Pete70 said:

8 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, it's not enough.   What offence was committed in England?   None, apparently.   

 

It was a virtual offense, right. It happened online. Thus I don't think it's all too relevant where someone is located at the time.

The funds went through England.

"I don't think it's all too relevant where someone is located at the time".

If an offence has been committed, it's very relevant.   

 

Your voluntarily transferring money, with no contract, to your friend's UK bank doesn't necessarily constitute an offence on his part.

[Pete70]

Just now, Liverpool Lou said:

"I don't think it's all too relevant where someone is located at the time".

If an offence has been committed, it's very relevant.   

 

Your voluntarily transferring money, with no contract, to your friend's UK bank doesn't necessarily constitute an offence on his part.

 

A verbal agreement, or a written one in chat, does constitute a contract, doesn't it.

 

 

[mvdf]

No signed and witnessed contracts here in Asia, no chance of asset recovery.

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

22 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

25 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, it's not enough.   What offence was committed in England?   None, apparently.   

could be enough for small court, the "offence" committed is at the discretion of the court, that's why we have small courts 

A Swiss, resident in Thailand, making a claim to a county court in England against a Briton, resident in Vietnam?     That should be fairly straightforward!

[worgeordie]

Maybe he has the equipment and is just too busy mining  at the moment

to get back to you.........but I am sure he will, he's a good friend......

regards worgeordie

[Liverpool Lou]

23 minutes ago, Pete70 said:

24 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

To quote you, "your <deleted>ty attitude and bossy manner", perhaps?    

 

Sure, if you're panicking and worried you just lost $12000, I'd wager to see that anyone can lose their politeness.

 

No reason to just run off with the money and ghost the person, is it?

Could be.  Depends on what you said to him!

[ukrules]

There are many scams and delivery problems with crypto mining equipment, assuming your friend is ripping you off is likely a mistake.

 

You've probably both been ripped off here, you blaming him for all the problems is a little naive.

 

You both took a risk.

 

I've heard of very late delivery for mining equipment as well, like 6 months late as they can't keep up with demand and they use it themselves instead of ship it - this dates back to the very first systems when they were manufactured around 2013 - it was very common back then and I'm sure it's more common now.

 

[Liverpool Lou]

20 minutes ago, Pete70 said:

But after a whole month of ghosting, and further blocking any attempts of making contact? It's too much.

 

I'm no legal expert - it is what I think fraud is, I could be totally wrong there. No idea.

No contact for a month after you confirmed that you p_issed him off and he confirmed that he'd reimburse you, does not constitute "international fraud" .  Did you, perhaps, accuse your best friend, who helped you financially though a bad time, of international fraud?

 

As you said, you "have no idea and you're not a legal expert".

[Liverpool Lou]

25 minutes ago, Pete70 said:

A verbal agreement, or a written one in chat, does constitute a contract, doesn't it.

If you say so.

[Pete70]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No contact for a month after you confirmed that you p_issed him off and he confirmed that he'd reimburse you, does not constitute "international fraud" .  Did you, perhaps, accuse your best friend, who helped you financially though a bad time, of international fraud?

 

As you said, you "have no idea and you're not a legal expert".

 

No-one has accused anyone. As I've stated above I simply wanted to know where the funds have gone.

 

Anyway, this isnt' helping. I'm not getting any helpful legal advice here at all.

 

[from the home of CC]

expats ripping off expats - I believe this year it's going to featured at the Olympics, a whole new meaning of 'going for the gold'...

[RJRS1301]

46 minutes ago, Pete70 said:

 

Let me try and reach his boss at IBM. I have his email address.

 

The debt has nothing to do with his employer, and the employer should not be involved in any way. That could be leaving you open to civil charges. 

 

[Pete70]

Just now, from the home of CC said:

expats ripping off expats - I believe this year it's going to featured at the Olympics, a whole new meaning of 'going for the gold'...

ripping off someone is one thing.

 

Taking half their entire family's savings? That's a whole other level.

[from the home of CC]

Just now, Pete70 said:

ripping off someone is one thing.

 

Taking half their entire family's savings? That's a whole other level.

there's no limit to western greed and it doesn't have a heartbeat..

[3STTW]

An acquaintance of mine got burned in a very similar manner about 4 years ago. He was working here and he had a professional colleague and longtime friend who was in Malaysia. The investment was mining equipment from Australia. 
Upshot: equipment ended up on a dock in somewhere in AP with incomplete paperwork, the Oz supplier went bankrupt, by the time his mate had paid all the custom charges to get equipment released, it had been butchered by the locals.

 

So my acquaintance in Thailand went after him legally because his mate was managing the deal. 
 

And got nowhere. Even with contracts and recorded transfers, literally nobody was interested.

 

They stood to make millions but it was a precarious venture at best, mainly because they relied on third parties to do the most important legwork.

 

Any ‘investment’ that looks too good to be true, probably is. And, as ever, never invest money that you are not prepared to lose.

 

Cut your losses and move on.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that it was real mining equipment, not crypto nonsense.

Edited July 5, 2021 by 3STTW

[Pete70]

1 minute ago, 3STTW said:

An acquaintance of mine got burned in a very similar manner about 4 years ago. He was working here and he had a professional colleague and longtime friend who was in Malaysia. The investment was mining equipment from Australia. 
Upshot: equipment ended up on a dock in somewhere in AP with incomplete paperwork, the Oz supplier went bankrupt, by the time his mate had paid all the custom charges to get equipment released, it had been butchered by the locals.

 

So my acquaintance in Thailand went after him legally because his mate was managing the deal. 
 

And got nowhere. Even with contracts and recorded transfers, literally nobody was interested.

 

They stood to make millions but it was a precarious venture at best, mainly because they relied on third parties to do the most important legwork.

 

Any ‘investment’ that looks to good to be true, probably is. And, as ever, never invest money that you are not prepared to lose.

 

Cut your losses and move on.

 

Yeah I invest extremely conservatively. I don't own shares or options or anything of the sort. I don't gamble.

 

The only reason I did this was because this was the single most highly trusted individual in my entire life. I would have trusted him with the life of my daughters for <deleted>'s sake.

[fdsa]

4 hours ago, Pete70 said:

- May 20 Adrian stated that he has not received any response from the seller in "over a week". Up until this point he has still not shared the seller's details with me, despite me asking repeatedly. A few days after he stated that the money was transferred directly to an individual and not via a trading platform.

I believe that he was scammed by sending money to the wrong person or to the wrong website. There are tons of fake skype accounts and websites mimicking legit websites that sell mining equipment.

 

However this is quite strange:

> Up until this point he has still not shared the seller's details with me, despite me asking repeatedly.

 

I recommend you to contact your friend and make him give you all the details of the transaction(s), then try to find the (alleged) scammer together.

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, ukrules said:

There are many scams and delivery problems with crypto mining equipment, assuming your friend is ripping you off is likely a mistake.

 

You've probably both been ripped off here, you blaming him for all the problems is a little naive.

 

You both took a risk.

 

I've heard of very late delivery for mining equipment as well, like 6 months late as they can't keep up with demand and they use it themselves instead of ship it - this dates back to the very first systems when they were manufactured around 2013 - it was very common back then and I'm sure it's more common now.

 

 

????

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by fdsa

[bojo]

If you've been best friends for 20 years, send him a letter, yes, with a stamp on it (it's far more personal and it seems you have exhausted the digital method).......Appeal to his better nature....................He may well have scammed you, he may well have made a huge mistake with lack of due dilligence, he may well want to sort things out, he may well feel in a corner and doesn't know how to react and he may feel that you have been too Swiss (black and white, no room for manouevre etc), sometimes you gotta massage a situation, play it out, don't be too forthright......and if that doesn't work and/or in  the meantime, try to get on a plane and have a face to face..................................With the info you have provided so far, you got no chance legally............................buona fortuna...................

[rumak]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

 

there are a few languages  where when one looks up the definition of  "trust me"...

the definition reads     " F***  You ! "

 

sorry,  forum rules prohibit me from posting those languages   ( smile emoji )

 

[1FinickyOne]

43 minutes ago, Pete70 said:

I'm no legal expert - it is what I think fraud is, I could be totally wrong there. No idea.

So, he produces proof of a wire transfer and then you have no case?

 

Since the amounts are not that large, your biggest loss is going to be from aggravation... 

[BananaGuy]

Sorry ... i thought you were looking for ideas how to proceed with international fraud ...

 

... i have a few but guess i'd better shut up now.

[3STTW]

9 minutes ago, Pete70 said:

 

Yeah I invest extremely conservatively. I don't own shares or options or anything of the sort. I don't gamble.

 

The only reason I did this was because this was the single most highly trusted individual in my entire life. I would have trusted him with the life of my daughters for <deleted>'s sake.

I don’t believe you; you paid out serious money on a venture which most people wouldn’t regard as an investment - more like a wild bet. The outcome was almost inevitable.

 

No, you’re not a serious investor, you have a bad case of FOMO.

 

If you never trust anyone again, at least that’ll be one good outcome from this fiasco.

[Pete70]

Is this something that actually works?

 

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees

 

Their fees of 5% seem outrageous to pay in advance and without any guarantees? Talk about a bad investment...

[3STTW]

Not as bad as yours!