US announces Pfizer vaccine donation for Thailand - but no mention of its own nationals

[ross163103]

Funny how the sinovac/sinopharm vaccines were so readily available.................gotta wonder who's influencing the decisions on what vaccines to make available.

 

Well, OK, it's not that hard to figure it out, pretty simple really!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 hours ago, kamahele said:

The embassy has already stated they the US government wouldn't be providing vaccines to Americans who have decided to live abroad. No reason to state it every time they donate vaccines or medical supplies to Thailand 

 

Ohh... I dunno... I kind of like to remind myself and others of that fact, every time the issue comes up.

 

The dismal performance of the U.S. State Dept. and the current U.S. government on this regarding U.S. citizens living abroad is something I'll be remembering for a long time to come.

 

I kind of like to think of this COVID vaccine non-treatment for U.S. expats abroad as the international version of the federal government's response to Hurricane Katrina and the flood refugees forced into shelter at the New Orleans SuperDome (for those who have any recollection of past history).

 

"Criticism was prompted largely by televised images of visibly shaken and frustrated political leaders, and of residents who remained in New Orleans without water, food or shelter and the deaths of several citizens by thirst, exhaustion, and violence, days after the storm itself had passed.^{[citation needed]} The treatment of people who had evacuated to registered facilities such as the Superdome was also criticized.^[2]"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Empathy perhaps.  However there are approximately 200 countries in the world.  I would expect that all of them have expatriates scattered all over the globe.  I can not imagine the logistic nightmare if each of them said to Thailand, oh we want to send vaccines only for our citizens living in your country. 

 

Not every foreign country where large numbers of Americans reside abroad has so drastically failed to vaccinate its own population and done even worse in providing vaccinations to foreign nationals, while at the same time having a variety of other rules that make it extremely difficult for expats here to have any other options.

 

In the U.S., in most states, foreign nationals had exactly the same access to vaccines and in the same time frames as American citizens. There was no second-class status there, in most places. Here in Thailand, foreign nationals have been on the receiving end of a continuing stream of false and broken vaccine promises from the Thai government and been relegated to a separate and largely second-class access status for vaccines.

 

The local U.S. government reps here surely became aware of that long ago in the process. But seemingly have done little to nothing to remedy that inequity between how Thais were treated in the U.S. vs. how Americans (and other foreign nationals) have been treated here when it comes to COVID vaccines.

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, rbkk said:

According to DP "Watchman" it is 20%. Another lie?

 

Dunno why he said that in the media interview. The policy the Thai government is going to follow for the 1.5 million U.S. donated Pfizer doses is a 10% setaside for unspecified foreign nationals, which the MoPH has already said will be directed to age 60+ and medically vulnerable folks.

 

 

[kynikoi]

Donation for the junta, RTP and their families. Help Americans (which is at least part of their charge), not so much.

 

I'm sure western countries think it's buying goodwill. How simple minded.

[kynikoi]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Not every foreign country where large numbers of Americans reside abroad has so drastically failed to vaccinate its own population and done even worse in providing vaccinations to foreign nationals, while at the same time having a variety of other rules that make it extremely difficult for expats here to have any other options.

 

In the U.S., in most states, foreign nationals had exactly the same access to vaccines and in the same time frames as American citizens. There was no second-class status there, in most places. Here in Thailand, foreign nationals have been on the receiving end of a continuing stream of false and broken vaccine promises from the Thai government and been relegated to a separate and largely second-class access status for vaccines.

 

The local U.S. government reps here surely became aware of that long ago in the process. But seemingly have done little to nothing to remedy that inequity between how Thais were treated in the U.S. vs. how Americans (and other foreign nationals) have been treated here when it comes to COVID vaccines.

 

 

 

My wife follows some information site for visas to US. She tells me first time interviews are booked solid till years end.

 

Get vaccinated for free upon landing and a nice holiday.

[hioctane]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Not every foreign country where large numbers of Americans reside abroad has so drastically failed to vaccinate its own population and done even worse in providing vaccinations to foreign nationals, while at the same time having a variety of other rules that make it extremely difficult for expats here to have any other options.

 

In the U.S., in most states, foreign nationals had exactly the same access to vaccines and in the same time frames as American citizens. There was no second-class status there, in most places. Here in Thailand, foreign nationals have been on the receiving end of a continuing stream of false and broken vaccine promises from the Thai government and been relegated to a separate and largely second-class access status for vaccines.

 

The local U.S. government reps here surely became aware of that long ago in the process. But seemingly have done little to nothing to remedy that inequity between how Thais were treated in the U.S. vs. how Americans (and other foreign nationals) have been treated here when it comes to COVID vaccines.

 

 

 

There certainly was a “second class status.” Of course this was when demand outstripped supply. Now that supply outpaced demand, anyone can get it. Same will happen in Thailand and everywhere else.

[herfiehandbag]

14 hours ago, Thomas J said:

You are correct.  However that is caused by our decision to live overseas.  That is not the fault of the U.S. government.  To somehow suggest that they should "make things convenient" for U.S. citizens to get the vaccine is this  I am entitled mentality that has gripped society.  

I don't like the fact that I can't get the Pfizer vaccine.  However I fully recognize that the difficulty is caused by my decision to live in Thailand.  If I had a heart condition and needed an operation, do I expect that the U.S. government will fly over a medical team to take care of me?  No, if I want to be covered by my USA Medicare I have to fly back to the USA.  Inconvenient, of course.  But there are numerous inconveniences caused by living overseas.   Life is filled with decisions and the consequences for those decisions.  If a person so dislikes the inconvenience of living in Thailand then they should reconsider and move back to the USA.  If they like living here and are willing to tolerate the things not provided back in the USA, then they should just make their own personal accommodations, and not expect the USA government to shield them from the negative aspects of living abroad. 

If one might extend your analogy: if you had a heart condition, it would not be reasonable to expect the US government to fly a team over to treat you.

 

However, if Thailand had a shortage of heart surgeons, meaning that you could not be treated, and if the US government decided to fly over a team for three months to help reduce that shortage, then perhaps it would be reasonable to expect that they included you amongst those they were treating?

[Thomas J]

3 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

However, if Thailand had a shortage of heart surgeons, meaning that you could not be treated, and if the US government decided to fly over a team for three months to help reduce that shortage, then perhaps it would be reasonable to expect that they included you amongst those they were treating?

Yes and here is another analogy.  If you were on a boat with several other U.S. citizens and it sank and you all were drowning but there was an island within swimming distance.  If you were really concerned about drowning, then taking ones own initiative to swim to the island is probably a more prudent action than waiting for the U.S. government to send the Navy to rescue you.  There are flights leaving every day to locations including the USA where vaccines are available.  

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Thomas J

[Sticky Rice Balls]

12 hours ago, mlmcleod said:

Exactly how can we travel with no vaccination?

I dont make the rules--I follow them....Im vaccinated and ready to go

[Thomas J]

8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

In the U.S., in most states, foreign nationals had exactly the same access to vaccines and in the same time frames as American citizens

Yes so if you are going to complain about any country it should be Thailand for not acquiring sufficient vaccines and making them available to all who are residing here.  The fact that the USA making them available to everyone is not justification for imposing on them the requirement to fly vaccines all over the world.  

 

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Yes so if you are going to complain about any country it should be Thailand for not acquiring sufficient vaccines and making them available to all who are residing here.  The fact that the USA making them available to everyone is not justification for imposing on them the requirement to fly vaccines all over the world.  

 

And yet it will be flying 1.5 million doses to Thailand.

[Thomas J]

12 hours ago, placnx said:

This reminds me of the US administration argument that since there are 9 mn expats it is impossible to deal with. That's a straw man argument. Many of the US expats are either fairly close to the US or in a country where it's not a problem to be vaccinated in a reasonable time frame. I guess you don't know about mountain rescue, either.

Lets be honest.  You believe that Covid 19 is such a threat that in your opinion the USA has the obligation to marshal all the required effort to bring a vaccine to Thailand so you can be protected.  However, despite your opinion that the threat is so severe and so real, you choose not to save your own life by flying back to the USA or any other location where the vaccines are readily available. 

Actions speak louder than words.  The fact that you choose not to fly somewhere where there is vaccine available reveals your real opinion and that is that your complaint is not that the vaccine is unavailable but it is inconvenient and you will incur significant expense to obtain it.  What you are really asking is not the the USA "save" you and other U.S. expatriates from Covid 19 but spare you the expense and hassle of obtaining. it. 

[Isaan sailor]

11 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Yes and here is another analogy.  If you were on a boat with several other U.S. citizens and it sank and you all were drowning but there was an island within swimming distance.  If you were really concerned about drowning, then taking ones own initiative to swim to the island is probably a more prudent action than waiting for the U.S. government to send the Navy to rescue you.  There are flights leaving every day to locations including the USA where vaccines are available.  

 

End the quarantine for vaccinated expats returning to Thailand—and we will book flights.

[Thomas J]

12 hours ago, placnx said:

I wonder how the French arranged the distribution of the J&J vaccine. It seems well done, to eight cities. Maybe they helped the Thai government figure out the solution.

Yes the French and the Chinese sent vaccine to Thailand.  As previously stated, one or two countries sending vaccine to Thailand likely created considerable effort and logistics.  Now try doing that with all of the 195 counties in the world sending vaccine to Thailand only dedicated to their citizens.  Or is it only the USA expatriate lives that are so precious that the other countries likewise don't have to send vaccine for theirs. 

If you really believe that your life is in peril, take the initiative to do something about it.  There are vaccines available and waiting for you.  You will have to leave Thailand and go through the hassle and expense of procuring them.  But I guess you are really of the opinion that taking the initiative to save your own life is not worth that effort and you prefer to complain that the USA has not made it convenient for you to obtain the vaccine.  That inconvenience sir was caused by your decision to move 7,000 miles away from the USA mainland. 

[Thomas J]

16 minutes ago, Isaan sailor said:

End the quarantine for vaccinated expats returning to Thailand—and we will book flights

Yes you are exactly correct.  I have neighbors who just arrived from France.  Both fully vaccinated with Pfizer.  Had Covid tests before the flight and after arrival and they still were required to spend 15 days in quarantine at their expense. That is ludicrous.  They are more at risk in getting Covid from the unvaccinated Thai's than giving it to them. 

I spent many hours on the internet and was fortunate to snare an appointment to get my first Astra Zeneca shot in Bangkok this Friday.   I also "supposedly" have reserved a Moderna shot also in Bangkok when they arrive.  Now is it a hassle for me to make the 6 hour roundtrip drive to get the vaccine.  Of course.  But that is not the fault of the USA.  

Had those vaccine appointments not been available I would have been willing to fly to another country to obtain the vaccine, take a holiday and return to Thailand.  However I certainly did not and would not be in solitary confinement in a hotel room for 15 days.  

If someone is truly so worried about losing their life to Covid but not willing to do something to save their own life other than complain that the vaccine is not available at their local pharmacy and somehow it is the USA's responsibility to make it free and convenient.  I don't have much empathy for.   There is such a thing as taking personal responsibility.  

Edited July 22, 2021 by Thomas J

[Misty]

8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Not every foreign country where large numbers of Americans reside abroad has so drastically failed to vaccinate its own population and done even worse in providing vaccinations to foreign nationals, while at the same time having a variety of other rules that make it extremely difficult for expats here to have any other options.

 

In the U.S., in most states, foreign nationals had exactly the same access to vaccines and in the same time frames as American citizens. There was no second-class status there, in most places. Here in Thailand, foreign nationals have been on the receiving end of a continuing stream of false and broken vaccine promises from the Thai government and been relegated to a separate and largely second-class access status for vaccines.

 

The local U.S. government reps here surely became aware of that long ago in the process. But seemingly have done little to nothing to remedy that inequity between how Thais were treated in the U.S. vs. how Americans (and other foreign nationals) have been treated here when it comes to COVID vaccines.

 

 

 

The local U.S. government reps did create an email address specifically for US citizens to contact them regarding covid issues.  However, they don't or won't answer legitimate questions.  (My guess is the email address isn't monitored.)

[placnx]

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

Lets be honest.  You believe that Covid 19 is such a threat that in your opinion the USA has the obligation to marshal all the required effort to bring a vaccine to Thailand so you can be protected.  However, despite your opinion that the threat is so severe and so real, you choose not to save your own life by flying back to the USA or any other location where the vaccines are readily available. 

Actions speak louder than words.  The fact that you choose not to fly somewhere where there is vaccine available reveals your real opinion and that is that your complaint is not that the vaccine is unavailable but it is inconvenient and you will incur significant expense to obtain it.  What you are really asking is not the the USA "save" you and other U.S. expatriates from Covid 19 but spare you the expense and hassle of obtaining. it. 

Not even considering the time and expense to travel from Asia or Africa to the US, in countries where vaccines approved in the US are still not readily available and where returning to the US would incur more risk of virus exposure than sheltering in place, it would be much more efficient for the vaccine to come to the masses of US expats than the reverse. Of course, the Administration would have to be in touch with ambassadors in Washington and US embassies might need to exit their cocoons to do local planning. The French have demonstrated that this is doable in Thailand. Each country in Asia and Africa needs a case by case review.

[Thomas J]

3 minutes ago, placnx said:

returning to the US would incur more risk of virus exposure than sheltering in place,

There are decisions and consequences.  You seem to be so concerned over getting Covid.  Obviously not concerned enough to go through the inconvenience of traveling back to the USA.  That speaks volumes about how genuine your concern is versus the hassle of having to travel back.  

PS. even getting the vaccine has risks and is no certainty of being 100% protected.  Your actions or should I say lack of them show you are more concerned about cost and convenience.  

 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Yes the French and the Chinese sent vaccine to Thailand.  As previously stated, one or two countries sending vaccine to Thailand likely created considerable effort and logistics.  Now try doing that with all of the 195 counties in the world sending vaccine to Thailand only dedicated to their citizens.  Or is it only the USA expatriate lives that are so precious that the other countries likewise don't have to send vaccine for theirs. 

You clearly are unaware of how sophisticated and modern supply chains are. Do the names  DHL or Fedex ring any bells for you?

Edited July 22, 2021 by placeholder

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, placnx said:

Not even considering the time and expense to travel from Asia or Africa to the US, in countries where vaccines approved in the US are still not readily available and where returning to the US would incur more risk of virus exposure than sheltering in place, it would be much more efficient for the vaccine to come to the masses of US expats than the reverse. Of course, the Administration would have to be in touch with ambassadors in Washington and US embassies might need to exit their cocoons to do local planning. The French have demonstrated that this is doable in Thailand. Each country in Asia and Africa needs a case by case review.

Only a handful of blockheads who think they're Grizzly Adams would believe it's a good idea to bring people back to the US from Asia and increase the chance of exposure to Covid multiple times (and possibly incurring expensive ICU hospitalization for those infected in the US at cost to US taxpayers, btw). For months we saw posters claim America shipping vaccine was illegal, too difficult to organize, embarrassing for Thailand, impossible to distribute, and overwhelming because of the large numbers of American expats. Then, of course, China did it (with more than three times the amount of citizens in Thailand as the US). Then, France did it (with a much smaller embassy presence). And don't forget the VOA article that documented the US embassy providing vaccines on embassy grounds itself some time during the 1980s. So all the excuses became null. 

[55Jay]

State Dept's mission is playing diplomatic footsie with foreign governments, juntas in business suits, et al.   Providing basic, routine administrative services to Americans on the ground, is a distant 3rd/4th order activity. 

 

COVID, while highly unusual and longer lasting than expected, still doesn't rise to the level of crisis requiring an extraordinary foreign intervention (in Thailand) at this time.  Biden's vaccine offer to Asia and other regions, was largely a boot-strap political gesture, taking advantage of a fortuitous vacuum of American good-will left on a silver platter by the previous US Administration.

 

So while I'm also disappointed that the US vaccine offer didn't come any quiet conditions, I understand DoS will resist setting an unsustainable precedent for US Citizen services during transient situations, and naturally the local Embassy won't do anything unless approved, directed and funded by the D.C. head shed.

 

Make enough noise on Facebook these days, however, you never know what can happen.  My guess is the Thai gubmint doesn't like the optics of having the spotlight on their shenanigans, so they'll swallow their egos temporarily, and take care of business out of self-preservation.

[placnx]

On 7/22/2021 at 12:07 PM, Thomas J said:

There are decisions and consequences.  You seem to be so concerned over getting Covid.  Obviously not concerned enough to go through the inconvenience of traveling back to the USA.  That speaks volumes about how genuine your concern is versus the hassle of having to travel back.  

PS. even getting the vaccine has risks and is no certainty of being 100% protected.  Your actions or should I say lack of them show you are more concerned about cost and convenience.  

 

Spending 20+ hours on aircraft with one or more transits seems like a good way to get Covid exposure (not to mention getting to the plane from wherever). So I say "shelter in place" may be the better option. It's not a question of convenience. Rather, it's a weighing of risks. Staying here unvaccinated could be riskier for people who are in daily contact with many others.