Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, 2009 said:

To summarize: take on risk for your creature comforts.

 

But tell that to those who have lost someone from a vaccine which is still being tested (on us) for safety.

 

 

Your sense of risk is out of whack.

 

About  1 in 1800 die from the virus.
 

About 1 in a million die after vaccination.

[xylophone]

27 minutes ago, 2009 said:

This is so pathetic and insulting to our intelligence.

Why don't you stick to comments about your own intelligence level rather than "our" intelligence? Plenty of evidence out there as to the development of the vaccines and how and why they were developed rapidly.

 

27 minutes ago, 2009 said:

How can people be so stupid?!

Don't be too hard upon yourself.
 

[Danderman123]

48 minutes ago, 2009 said:

How was the vaccine tested, if not (currently) on us?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html

 

i am so sorry you made all sorts of false assertions, without knowing the basics.

Edited October 13, 2021 by Danderman123

[Someone Else]

26 minutes ago, 2009 said:

This is so pathetic and insulting to our intelligence.

 

Their approval came faster than I would with 1993 Jenna Jameson. Lol. 

 

Fastest in history. Wonder why?

How can people be so stupid?!

They are fully approved, not experimental which you and the antivax clan keep lying about.  

 

Covid vaccine sponsors did everything they could in tandem, whereas in traditional development one wouldn't take on that degree of financial risk.  In general, drugs are getting approved much more quickly as regulators like FDA have expanded various expedited approval programs.  Some drugs have been approved in less than three months in the modern era.  And you can bet FDA massively prioritized review staff given the urgent public health need. 

 

So I fail to see how fast approval of covid vaccines is a bad thing, nor have you articulated why it's a bad thing.

 

[stuandjulie]

On 7/26/2021 at 5:37 PM, The Cipher said:

Doubt it. In today's world we lock down the fittest so that the least fit can survive a little longer.

Yes it is called caring for others, not being an inconvenience for the fittest.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

pertains to 2009 post to you, just above, concerning crazed Aus Govt. pop.suppression acts and effects of lockdowns absent sufficient covid vaxx / covid control. if / when everyone vaxxed or legally isolated, covid reduced & controlled, enabling return to “ normal”.

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

My entire family had it in Jan 2020 ............ we all survived and for 3 out of 4 it was no worse than the flu.

My misses aged 40 had it worse sweating for 10 days, my step-daughter age 22 had no symptoms at all.

No hospitals or medicine required.

That's your personal experience. And one that can't be verified. Especially as you admit you didn't get tested .

 

Many other families have had vastly different and much worse experiences. Again, you are being very selfish.

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, 2009 said:

What would you call the way the world has handled the pandemic?

 

Lock up the low risk majority to protect the high risk vast minority.

 

Corner people (including kids) into being test subjects for these innoculations. Let's be honest - and I have been vaccinated myself - we are the tests!

 

Complete emotional frenzy.

How about we lock up all the anti vaxxers and pandemic deniers .

 

You really are off base here.

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Get over yourself, this guy certainly didn't want to talk, he ran away from questions, citing a disclosure. No conversation can be had with the ones who attack any outside the box thinking. 

What? You really need a better source for your news. This guy is now a hard core anti vaxxer. And an idol fot many nutters.

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

find myself agreeing BOTH with Chomper and 2009.

2009 nails the natural correct selfish reason to vaxx ….Personal Survival.

Let Others ( Strangers after all) Worry About Others.

Chomper nails correctly the collective responsibilty aspect, which for me, is less important. I would kill an unlimited number of strangers to save my young son. But let us pass Laws to enact collective protection against the unvaxxed.

My point of view is not simply collective responsibility, but also limiting social consequences of not combatting the virus.

 

You have stated your very natural defense of your son, now let’s keep that in mind as we consider the following:

 

A stated aim of lockdowns (and mass vaccination) is to prevent medical services being overwhelmed, we have evidence of this occurring in Idaho and Alaska, two states with very low vaccine uptake that have now enacted crisis standards of care at their hospitals (triage).

 

So now put yourself in the mind of a parent turning up with a very sick child only to be turned away and denied healthcare.

 

You’ve already told us how far you’d go to protect your son, is it beyond doubt that others would turn to violence at the ER doorway?

 

A breakdown of health services is a very credible cause for extremes of social unrest, you’ve already explained why that is.

 

 

[metisdead]

A post with unsubstantiated info has been reported and removed.

 

A troll post has been removed. 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Agree Chomper. But what civilized measures would then have stopped the sick & dying unvaxxed from overwhelming our hospitals. Unless they were all confined ( walled off) in restricted unvaxxed living areas ( maybe red covid unvaxxed spots already like Manchester, Bradford and Leeds) with their own ( limited) hospitals to take their chances without dragging down the rest of us, largely non covid sick / injured needing hospital.

[placnx]

9 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So another words you have nothing except insults. About right for many here.

 

I just feel that is a person suffers through covid, recovers and then is forced to vaxx to save his job. Well that's wrong. He doesn't need it.

The Delta variant has changed the game. Antibody immunity from infection is not as persistent as from vaccination. If someone got Covid (and survived), after even a single jab their immunity is increased to levels far surpassing two jabs. So a recovered person has a definite interest in getting a jab anyway.

[placnx]

8 hours ago, The Cipher said:

Dude, in order for your statement to be correct the default expectation for any unvaccinated person catching the Delta variant would have to be, by definition, the development a serious illness at a minimum.

 

You can straight up prove that premise wrong by looking at the data. Based on observed outcomes the expected outcome for pretty much anyone catching Delta is that their immune system will defeat the virus. This isn't a debate; literally all of this is plainly visible in the data.

 

That being said, I will reiterate that the data also indicate that vaccination is highly effective at supplementing an immune system's response against the virus and that it is a good idea for people to get vaccinated.

I would like to point out that infection with Covid is enough of a problem without any symptoms showing because it can spread easily to others whose immune systems are even less capable. We have to think of others.

 

The question is the level of neutralizing antibodies generated by vaccination which will be much more effective than reliance on natural immunity.

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, placnx said:

We have to think of others.

This is the very nub of the problem. Humans come in two varieties. Those that do and those that don't.

[placnx]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My entire family had it in Jan 2020 ............ we all survived and for 3 out of 4 it was no worse than the flu.

My misses aged 40 had it worse sweating for 10 days, my step-daughter age 22 had no symptoms at all.

No hospitals or medicine required.

 

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

As the CDC freely admits the vaccines neither prevent catching or transmitting the disease, I fail to see how the unvaccinated can be considered a danger to anyone but themselves.

 

Would point to the news post claiming 12 vaccinated staff at a Hua Hin restaurant all had COVID.

So, my friend's sister and her family all got Covid. All were jabbed with Sinovac except her husband. He was the one who died.

[placnx]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Clearly, you don’t know how clinical trials function.

 

Polio was a savage killer of children back in the day. Clinical trials were conducted, with some children vaccinated, to prove efficacy of the vaccine. As a result, millions of lives were saved, and Polio was virtually eradicated.
 

Complete emotional frenzy.

We'd be done with polio but for the anti-vaxers who shoot the vaccination teams in Pakistan!

[Danderman123]

32 minutes ago, placnx said:

The Delta variant has changed the game. Antibody immunity from infection is not as persistent as from vaccination. If someone got Covid (and survived), after even a single jab their immunity is increased to levels far surpassing two jabs. So a recovered person has a definite interest in getting a jab anyway.

I don’t know if this is true, but it sounds good.

[ozimoron]

Just now, Danderman123 said:

I don’t know if this is true, but it sounds good.

It's easily checked.

[2009]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Polio was a savage killer of children back in the day.

Uhuh...yeah... but you know that covid isn't the savage killer of children that Polio was, right?

 

See the difference?

 

Polio: savage killer of children

COVID: barely affects them

[2009]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Your sense of risk is out of whack.

 

About  1 in 1800 die from the virus.
 

About 1 in a million die after vaccination.

Yeah, that's why I got my vaccines. I ain't anti-vaxx. I was japped in the first 10% of the country free.

 

Let's alter those figures for kids. See if you can convince me to make my kid a test subject this year. The risk to reward profile is a lot worse for the kid.

 

And we don't have much data on it because giving these vaccines to children is such a new development. It takes time to collect data.

 

I'd be interested to see how the vaccines go with children. Fingers crossed they handle them well.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57766717

Edited October 13, 2021 by 2009

[2009]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Your sense of risk is out of whack.

 

About  1 in 1800 die from the virus.
 

About 1 in a million die after vaccination.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/11/oxfordastrazeneca-vaccine-rare-blood-clot-syndrome-has-high-mortality-rate

 

But regarding your figures there. My risk of dying of covid for my age is 0.2% and the odds of developing that blood clotting syndrome from Astra Zenenca (in under 50s) is 1 in 50,000, according to a recent article from The Guardian.

 

And those who are unfortunate enough to develop that clotting syndrome have a 20% mortality rate because it is difficult to stop.

 

Also, we can't usually choose the vaccine we get. I bit the bullet with Astra Zenenca anyway; got both doses.

 

But I wonder what the risk profile is for kids?

[ozimoron]

56 minutes ago, 2009 said:

But regarding your figures there. My risk of dying of covid for my age is 0.2% and the odds of developing that blood clotting syndrome from Astra Zenenca (in under 50s) is 1 in 50,000, according to a recent article from The Guardian.

I'm calling that out as a lie. Quote the article. Your fatality rates seem to be from the Wuhan variant and not the dominant delta variant.

 

Unvaccinated face 11 times risk of death from delta variant, CDC data show

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2282

 

https://www.science.org.au/curious/people-medicine/astrazeneca-vaccine-risk-death-1-million-what-does-mean

Edited October 13, 2021 by ozimoron

[Scott]

1 hour ago, 2009 said:

Uhuh...yeah... but you know that covid isn't the savage killer of children that Polio was, right?

 

See the difference?

 

Polio: savage killer of children

COVID: barely affects them

Polio was not a 'savage killer of children'. 

 

https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/dave-helling/article253422239.html

 

Please don't post false information or information that is deliberately misleading. 

 

 

 

[cdemundo]

14 hours ago, johng said:

If you avoid infection then you won't get ill,   but if you do get infected then perhaps it will be your own body's immune system that saves you ?

Or not.

The Herman Cain Awards reddit is full of people who bragged on their confidence in their immune system.

Then it follows their posts as they got sick with COVID, suffered, and died.

 

[Scott]

14 hours ago, johng said:

If you avoid infection then you won't get ill,   but if you do get infected then perhaps it will be your own body's immune system that saves you ?

At the end of the day, yes, it is our own immune system that saves us.  Some people get vastly luckier than others and a lot of it has to do with luck.  Our immune system will fight any foreign invading substance, but to do it well, it needs to know exactly what it is fighting.  The vaccine allows the immune system to identify this particular virus and kill or stop it from replicating.  

There are a host of reasons why some people's immune system kills the virus and other's don't, but a lot of it has to do with luck.  

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

 

[cdemundo]

The vaccines have been given to hundreds of millions of people now.

The clinical trials are kind of beside the point at this time.

 

Again if you use US data and put all VAERS side effect reports over the number of vaccines administered you will see how very unlikely any side effects are.

 

If you think you will get a mild case of COVID you might be right, but a serious case of COVID is freaking terrible.

You think the MSM doesn't tell you the whole story, make an effort to find out what the treatments are for a severe case of COVID.

Those who die from COVID do not go gentle into that good night.

[cdemundo]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My entire family had it in Jan 2020 ............ we all survived and for 3 out of 4 it was no worse than the flu.

My misses aged 40 had it worse sweating for 10 days, my step-daughter age 22 had no symptoms at all.

No hospitals or medicine required.

And no Covid test to confirm it was Covid.

[Danderman123]

10 hours ago, 2009 said:

Uhuh...yeah... but you know that covid isn't the savage killer of children that Polio was, right?

 

See the difference?

 

Polio: savage killer of children

COVID: barely affects them

But Covid has killed millions of adults, in case you have forgotten. 

 

You seem to have a lack of empathy.  You should try imagining if a close loved one had died from Covid, and then reading posts from morons claiming that Covid is no big deal.