Off topic remarks responses removed.

On 10/2/2021 at 10:48 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

So let's take a look at these numbers.

 

They come from the UK where adult 'full vaccination' is at 80% of the population. 

If the vaccines are having zero impact then the record of people suffering COVID will show no difference between vaccinated and un-vaccinated; for each data set you have posted the ratio vaccinated/unvaccinated will be 80/20.

 

Let's give it a try.

 

Delta cases - vaccinated with 2nd dose =  157,400

Delta cases - unvaccinated = 257,357

Total = 414,757

 

Vaccinated: 80% of 412,757 = 331,806 which is 174,406 more than actual. 

Unvaccinated: 20% of 414,757 = 82,951 which is 174,406 less than actual.

Vaccinations have reduced infections by 174,406.  A Stunning success for vaccination.

-------

 

 

Emergency care visits vaccinated = 6,265 (3.98%)

Emergency care visits unvaccinated = 11,678 (4.53%)

Total 17,943

 

Vaccinated: 80% of 17,943 = 14,354 which is 8,089 more than actual. 

Unvaccinated: 20% of 17,943 = 3,589 which is 8,089 less than actual.

Vaccinations have reduced emergency care visits by 8,089.  A Stunning success for vaccination.

------------

 

 

Vaccinations have reduced infections by 174,406.  A Stunning success for vaccination.

 

overnight/admission vaccinated = 2,361  (1.5%)

overnight/admission unvaccinated = 3,080 (1.2%)

Total 5,441

 

Vaccinated: 80% of 5,441 = 4,353 which is 1,992 more than actual. 

Unvaccinated: 20% of 5,441 = 1088 which is 1,992 less than actual.

Vaccinations have reduced hospital admissions by 1,992.  A Stunning success for vaccination.

----------

 

Deaths vaccinated= 1,613 (1%)

Deaths unvaccinated = 722 (0.3%) 

Total 2,335

 

Vaccinated: 80% of 2,335 = 1,868 which is 255 more than actual. 

Unvaccinated: 20% of 2,335 = 467 which is 255 less than actual.

Vaccinations have reduced hospital admissions by 467.  A Stunning success for vaccination.

-----------

 

I think it a good idea when reading these numbers to reflect on the fact that each individual datapoint represents a person, perhaps a parent, a child a spouse a partner a sibling. 

 

The vaccines have had a demonstrably dramatic positive impact on reducing illness, suffering and deaths, and that's putting aside the impact on reduced demand on health services and the associated costs therein.

 

Thanks for posting data so supportive of the case for vaccination.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for explaining it this way. However those numbers are cumulative from 1st of February when full vaccination was probably much lower than 80%. 

On 10/5/2021 at 4:22 PM, placeholder said:

"rationing care" is a euphemism for triage

Yes

On 10/6/2021 at 9:46 PM, niccodemi said:

Thank you for explaining it this way. However those numbers are cumulative from 1st of February when full vaccination was probably much lower than 80%. 

So wouldn't that mean that the vaccines are even more effective?

Fewer vaccines so the positive effects are even more dramatic.

I inadvertently spent a few hours in close proximity to a Covid+ person the other day, who was, in retrospect, symptomatic. Today she reported a positive Covid test, although she has been sick since Friday. 

 

If i can manage to avoid infection, it will be the vaccine that saved me. 

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

I inadvertently spent a few hours in close proximity to a Covid+ person the other day, who was, in retrospect, symptomatic. Today she reported a positive Covid test, although she has been sick since Friday. 

 

If i can manage to avoid infection, it will be the vaccine that saved me. 

Good luck.

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/if-youve-been-exposed-to-the-coronavirus

 

 

Again, good luck, let us know how it goes.

 

Edited October 12, 20214 yr by Chomper Higgot

Troll post reported and removed.

 

On 9/29/2021 at 10:00 PM, 248900_1469958220 said:

The flu jab is not mandatory. I have never had one. I am not 65 + , 30 kg overweight, I dont smoke and never have, I have a few beers with a mate once a week....I dont have fried lard sandwiches with bacon and fat balls for breakfast everyday.......Will they force me to get a booster? Will it be up to me? 

actually the flu jab is mandatory for many workers in some hospitals, nursing homes, and other related places, it was mandatory when I was in the US Air Force in the 90s, even though none of us were in the risk group.  There was not a big resistance to the flu vaccine, mainly because it is a traditional vaccine.  These RNA and related types of vaccines are different

25 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

actually the flu jab is mandatory for many workers in some hospitals, nursing homes, and other related places, it was mandatory when I was in the US Air Force in the 90s, even though none of us were in the risk group.  There was not a big resistance to the flu vaccine, mainly because it is a traditional vaccine.  These RNA and related types of vaccines are different

There was not a resistance to the flu vaccine because it wasn't made political. This has very little to do with mRNA, except that it was made political. Just like masks. Just like lockdowns. Sad.

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

There was not a resistance to the flu vaccine because it wasn't made political. This has very little to do with mRNA, except that it was made political. Just like masks. Just like lockdowns. Sad.

You don't know why many or some people resist vaccinations. Some do so because for political or personal, or religous, or other reasons.  Every person I know that resists does so because of the nature of the vaccines.  They all have many vaccinations for many diseases already, even optional ones such as Hep A and Hep B, get flu vaccines regularly, etc.  Far from a world-wide census though.

10 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

You don't know why many or some people resist vaccinations. Some do so because for political or personal, or religous, or other reasons.  Every person I know that resists does so because of the nature of the vaccines.  They all have many vaccinations for many diseases already, even optional ones such as Hep A and Hep B, get flu vaccines regularly, etc.  Far from a world-wide census though.

Actually, it's well documented and researched. Politics is a huge reason. Millions and millions of doses administered and extremely few issues. And the resistance to mRNA jabs are being amplified by the fake news right wing media outlets. Just listen to the nutters on Fox.

I could go on and on with articles like. Add in dodgy social media content, and it's terrible.

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/07/vaccines-remain-largely-effective-against-delta-variant-counter-to-claims-from-fox-news-guest/

 

Vaccines Remain Largely Effective Against Delta Variant, Counter to Claims From Fox News Guest

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/oct/07/will-cain/fox-news-host-will-cain-falsely-claims-vaccine-mor/

 

Fox News host Will Cain falsely claims vaccine more dangerous for children than COVID-19

 

 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/11/business/media/vaccines-fox-news-hosts.html

Despite Outbreaks Among Unvaccinated, Fox News Hosts Smear Shots

Months after Rupert Murdoch got a Covid-19 vaccine dose, one of his network’s stars, Tucker Carlson, called a Biden vaccination proposal “the greatest scandal in my lifetime.”

 

28 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

You don't know why many or some people resist vaccinations. Some do so because for political or personal, or religous, or other reasons.  Every person I know that resists does so because of the nature of the vaccines.  They all have many vaccinations for many diseases already, even optional ones such as Hep A and Hep B, get flu vaccines regularly, etc.  Far from a world-wide census though.

Which is why red states are lower in vaccination rates than blue states? And if you get more granular and break it down by red counties vs. blue counties, even more so? Which is why death rates are much higher among Trump supporters than those who voted for Biden after the advent of vaccination?..  Which is why thousands of Trump supporters went maskless at his rallies outdoors and indoors? Which is why the ex potus concealed the fact that he had been vaccinated while still in office?. 

 

Crowd boos Donald Trump when he recommends taking COVID vaccines

https://fox8.com/news/alabama-crowd-boos-donald-trump-when-he-recommends-taking-covid-vaccines/

Edited October 12, 20214 yr by placeholder

1 hour ago, gk10012001 said:

You don't know why many or some people resist vaccinations. Some do so because for political or personal, or religous, or other reasons.  Every person I know that resists does so because of the nature of the vaccines.  They all have many vaccinations for many diseases already, even optional ones such as Hep A and Hep B, get flu vaccines regularly, etc.  Far from a world-wide census though.

"Every person I know that resists does so because of the nature of the vaccines."

 

The discussion of the nature of the vaccines has been politicized and propagandized.

 

 

 

 

Vaccines cut the risk of severe COVID-19 by at least 90% in a huge real-world study of 23 million people

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/vaccines-cut-risk-severe-covid-104033907.html

I don't see much discussion about those unvaxx folks who contact Covid and recover. I saw a video where a scientist from Phizer says the person who has had covid is as resistant to covid as a vaxx person is. When asked Why he doesn't tell the American people this he ran away and talks about a "Non disclosure" Shouldn't those people be allowed to bypass the vaxx?

8 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Actually, it's well documented and researched. Politics is a huge reason. Millions and millions of doses administered and extremely few issues. And the resistance to mRNA jabs are being amplified by the fake news right wing media outlets. Just listen to the nutters on Fox.

I haven't had the COVID vaccine because it doesn't provide me with anything I want or need.

 

If there was a disease I thought would kill me, and a vaccine I thought would protect me from that death ..... I'd have that vaccine.

I never believed flu would harm me, or the flu vaccine would stop me getting the flu, so I didn't have it.

COVID the same.

 

As for my political views ...... I'm a full on Marxist, redistribution of wealth and land, etc.

Edited October 13, 20214 yr by BritManToo

25 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I don't see much discussion about those unvaxx folks who contact Covid and recover. I saw a video where a scientist from Phizer says the person who has had covid is as resistant to covid as a vaxx person is. When asked Why he doesn't tell the American people this he ran away and talks about a "Non disclosure" Shouldn't those people be allowed to bypass the vaxx?

If only vast numbers of people had not turned off critical thinking in their brains......Natural immunity has been working just fine since ,,,,well forever....

 

 

Edited October 13, 20214 yr by redwood1

 

FDA review finds Moderna’s booster dose of its coronavirus vaccine strengthens disease-fighting response

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fda-review-finds-modernas-booster-dose-of-its-coronavirus-vaccine-strengthens-disease-fighting-response/ar-AAPqw6g?li=BBnb7Kz

41 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I don't see much discussion about those unvaxx folks who contact Covid and recover. I saw a video where a scientist from Phizer says the person who has had covid is as resistant to covid as a vaxx person is. When asked Why he doesn't tell the American people this he ran away and talks about a "Non disclosure" Shouldn't those people be allowed to bypass the vaxx?

We really don't have a good handle on immunity from Covid infection.  An early study done in Israel showed it was stronger, but since then further studies show it's much weaker.  

 

Our immune system will mount a defense to any invader, but it may not always produce a specific antigen for that substance.  Usually, it does but not always.  A vaccine will always target the specific infectious agent.  

 

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-versus-vaccination

 

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

I don't see much discussion about those unvaxx folks who contact Covid and recover. I saw a video where a scientist from Phizer says the person who has had covid is as resistant to covid as a vaxx person is. When asked Why he doesn't tell the American people this he ran away and talks about a "Non disclosure" Shouldn't those people be allowed to bypass the vaxx?

I guess you don't read much, except what your internet friends send you. 

 

There has been much discussion about natural immunity. Google is your friend. 

14 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

 

If i can manage to avoid infection, it will be the vaccine that saved me. 

If you avoid infection then you won't get ill,   but if you do get infected then perhaps it will be your own body's immune system that saves you ?

1 minute ago, johng said:

If you avoid infection then you won't get ill,   but if you do get infected then perhaps it will be your own body's immune system that saves you ?

There is thing called “science” that you seem unfamiliar with.

 

Science tells us how the vaccine is more effective than the body’s immune system in fighting off infection. There are some 4,000,000 people whose immune system failed them against the virus.

On 7/26/2021 at 11:37 PM, The Cipher said:

Doubt it. In today's world we lock down the fittest so that the least fit can survive a little longer.

Exactly,

 

As Elon Musk said: the at risk people should have been the only ones to isolate.

 

The world is now considering vaccinating 5-11 years olds, for who?

 

Haven't all the high risk people been vaccinated already? Doesn't that do a reasonably good job of preventing serious illness and death from a covid infection?

Edited October 13, 20214 yr by 2009

14 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Science tells us how the vaccine is more effective than the body’s immune system in fighting off infection.

Perhaps it is you who are unaware of the science ?    vaccines do not fight infections,they simply give the immune system a "heads up" or warning as to what an infection might look like  so that when the "real"  infection arrives  the immune system is ready and prepared for the fight.

13 minutes ago, johng said:

Perhaps it is you who are unaware of the science ?    vaccines do not fight infections,they simply give the immune system a "heads up" or warning as to what an infection might look like  so that when the "real"  infection arrives  the immune system is ready and prepared for the fight.

Semantics. 

 

Without vaccination, the immune system is less capable of warding off something bad happening. 

10 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Semantics. 

 

Without vaccination, the immune system is less capable of warding off something bad happening. 

Not semantics at all !!   it goes to the very heart of the matter  which is  that the immune system itself  not a vaccine  fights the infection.

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I don't see much discussion about those unvaxx folks who contact Covid and recover. I saw a video where a scientist from Phizer says the person who has had covid is as resistant to covid as a vaxx person is. When asked Why he doesn't tell the American people this he ran away and talks about a "Non disclosure" Shouldn't those people be allowed to bypass the vaxx?

They’ve gotta ‘bypass’ the virus first.

 

Doh!

1 hour ago, johng said:

If you avoid infection then you won't get ill,   but if you do get infected then perhaps it will be your own body's immune system that saves you ?

Or not.

1 hour ago, johng said:

If you avoid infection then you won't get ill,   but if you do get infected then perhaps it will be your own body's immune system that saves you ?

The problem with your comment is that you failed to address the question of "perhaps not?"