Solar and Batteries vs Diesel Generator

[Kwarium]

Wondering if rooftop solar and new-fangled batteries have caught up to. 5Kw diesel generator with ATS yet. With regards to cost, efficiency, noise, maintenance, longevity.

 

Generator with ATS delivered 29,200 Baht.

AAC block shed to house it and isolate noise. 5000 Baht

Wire and conduit to tie into home wiring 2,000 Baht

Genny option 36,200 Baht all in, up and running. 6 month warranty. Should last longer as used about once per week for 4 hours. No benefit to reducing daily grid usage.

 

Solar cells are still around 3,000, sometimes 2,800 Baht. 8 pieces 22,400 Baht might be a good start? Batteries, Inverter, wiring, brackets, will definitely cost more to set up, but how much more? No shed needed (batteries in garage), quiet system, can be used daily to supplement grid usage, reduce costs and carbon footprint. Not sure how long cells last, but would assume a low maintenance system. 

 

More info needed! ???? over to you!

 

shout out to @driver52 for prompting me to ask.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Kwarium
Ps-

[Crossy]

Solar with batteries, silent power until the batteries are exhausted, then just silence!

 

Genset, rather noisier power until the fuel is exhausted, then re-fill the tank and continue! Rinse and repeat as often as required.

 

If it's purely reliable backup power you need then it's the diesel genset every time. Of course you have fuel costs to meet but diesel is cheap and most will run on a mix of used cooking oil if you have a source.

 

We are currently experimenting with an on-grid solar hybrid, stores excess solar power in the batteries, then once they're full export excess to the grid (net metering, conventional meter going backwards). Use the stored power at night (still grid-tie) but retain some for the power failures. Inverter and batteries $$$. I'll add to the car-port thread when I have something useful.

 

[abrahamzvi]

If the solar cells and batteries can be installed at reasonable costs, I would be very interested. Have tried a generator, but stopped using it, too loud and complicated to use.

[abrahamzvi]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Solar with batteries, silent power until the batteries are exhausted, then just silence!

 

Genset, rather noisier power until the fuel is exhausted, then re-fill the tank and continue! Rinse and repeat as often as required.

 

If it's purely reliable backup power you need then it's the diesel genset every time. Of course you have fuel costs to meet but diesel is cheap and most will run on a mix of used cooking oil if you have a source.

 

We are currently experimenting with an on-grid solar hybrid, stores excess solar power in the batteries, then once they're full export excess to the grid (net metering, conventional meter going backwards). Use the stored power at night (still grid-tie) but retain some for the power failures. Inverter and batteries $$$. I'll add to the car-port thread when I have something useful.

 

What are the costs of the system you are currently experimenting?

[BritManToo]

Agree with Crossy ........ genny every time.

You'd need 50,000bht of batteries at least.

[Siamjim]

been running small solar for yrs...wish had gone with genny

[Crossy]

18 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

What are the costs of the system you are currently experimenting?

 

Scary. Prices from Lazada, could be imported cheaper.

 

Sofar HYD 5000-ES grid-tie hybrid inverter 45,000 Baht, 48V x 200Ah LiFePO4 pack (used golf-cart cells measured at 160Ah) 26,000 Baht (includes BMS), 340W panels x 20 @ 2,900 (58,000 Baht), add a few grand for panel mounting, cable, surge suppressors, breakers etc. etc.

 

This system should make 25-30+ kWh per day which you can (not legally) net-meter if you have a mechanical meter, batteries should give you about 8kWh of backup.

 

So, hybrid costs, say 130,000 Baht (not including the ancilliaries).

A pure grid-tie of similar output (but without the UPS function), about 21,000 for the inverter, panels the same 58,000 so around 80,000 Baht. Nail a genset on for 38,000 = Total 118,000 Baht.

 

 

[Kwarium]

25 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

If the solar cells and batteries can be installed at reasonable costs, I would be very interested. Have tried a generator, but stopped using it, too loud and complicated to use.

With just a basic amount of searching it looks to me like the cost would easily be more than double the generator cost just for parts alone in preparation for a major diy solar and LiFePO4 battery project.

 

Maybe I’ll give it 5 more years? Fun and interesting to follow along though! Keep us posted @Crossy!

 

i’ll update my diesel generator and AVR thread once I get the generator.

Cheers and stay well!

 

Note: @Crossyposted some actual numbers just as I posted this! Gross underestimation on my part! ????

Edited July 28, 2021 by Kwarium
Note

[Crossy]

29 minutes ago, abrahamzvi said:

If the solar cells and batteries can be installed at reasonable costs, I would be very interested. Have tried a generator, but stopped using it, too loud and complicated to use.

 

Yeah, you need a shed or a "silent" enclosure.

 

But complicated? Ours is full auto start, we often don't realise we are on genset (TVs etc. are on UPS's). Even Madam is happy to use the beast (she does nothing).

All I have to do is keep the fuel topped up and change the engine oil ???? 

[kiteman9]

2 hours ago, Kwarium said:

Genny option 36,200 Baht all in, up and running. 6 month warranty

Please share the contact information on the company that installs and sells this generator. Thank you

[driver52]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

You'd need 50,000bht of batteries at least

surely it depends what you want to achieve? If it was me I'd see how much I could pick up solar panels for locally and see if any decent second hand batteries are up for grabs too, facebook?

@Kwariumhere's a few more entertaining videos for you, I like this guys channel, I'm looking at one of those 'oil coolers' for myself now lol

 

 

[Kwarium]

35 minutes ago, kiteman9 said:

Please share the contact information on the company that installs and sells this generator. Thank you

I have been documenting my search over in the electrical thread. The price is for a Kanto 5kw diesel generator delivered, not installed. The unit weighs 155 kg, but is on wheels. It  should be ‘plug and play’ aside from the fact you will need to buy some heavy wire and install the plugs. A wire will also need to be run into your house wiring, probably your mains breaker box. Not a diy job if you aren’t experienced with house wiring! Note also that the unit will be loud and spews exhaust. Not for use in a garage or enclosed area! (Some people may not know...)

 

link to thread discussing suppliers.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1225449-generator-ats-and-avr-advice-please/?do=findComment&comment=16692740https://aseannow.com/topic/1225449-generator-ats-and-avr-advice-please/?do=findComment&comment=16692740

[Kwarium]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

Yeah, you need a shed or a "silent" enclosure.

 

But complicated? Ours is full auto start, we often don't realise we are on genset (TVs etc. are on UPS's). Even Madam is happy to use the beast (she does nothing).

All I have to do is keep the fuel topped up and change the engine oil ???? 

This is my expectation exactly! I can find plenty of other things to worry about besides when the power will come back on! Retirement is stressful enough! ????

[BananaGuy]

I think you can safely remove ‘noise’ from your list … wind whistling through air-gap between solar panels and roof will drive you nuts.

Also, after 10 years or so, mounting screws will loosen, causing an irritating rattle.

Inverter hum can also be an issue so if you go solar, be careful to locate the inverter at least 100 metres from dwelling or bury it under cement slab before beginning house construction.

Also worth noting that the chemicals in solar panels will kill you slowly and painfully.

 

Disclosure: I am a professional generator installer.

[Crossy]

Some inverters sound like Concorde taking off when under load, hence my use of ($$$) fanless units.

 

[MrJ2U]

I like diesel.  More reliable and cheaper.  Easy to fix.

 

Maybe solar when Thailand has more options.

 

I use solar for all my outdoor lighting.

[l4ml4m]

With batteries your pollution stays in China, with diesel, you will add more co2 in Thailand air. Choose what you like more.

[Randy99]

If you go with diesel genset absolutely make sure that you run the thing at least once a month for 15 or 20 minutes.  Nothing worse for an engine than not being run.  The cast iron cylinder will quickly, depending on the quality of the engine, deteriorate leaving you with low compression.  I'm 40 years as an aircraft mechanic and saw this  happening all the time, particularly in a coastal environment.  The alternative is to inject some preservative oil into the cylinder between runs and make sure it covers the cylinder walls.   Good luck with your project.

[bluejets]

There is of course a third option.

Solar via inverter direct for daytime, (forget batteries) gen set for night or rainy days only.

Also use a large storage tank style hot water unit as an energy storage device.

Mine here runs via a cut-off timer on a grid tie system so it only runs 9.00am to 3.00pm.

Four years now, works well. Solar install already paid for itself also. (5kw inverter with 22 panels)

HWS run only off solar, I have even seen them here in Aus run straight from the panels, no inverter.

Solar cost would surely offset diesel fuel cost.

Diesel still cheap over there..? Most countries including Aus, gov planted hugh taxes on the diesel and now almost same price as petrol.

Edited July 28, 2021 by bluejets

[brianthainess]

I would be interested to know just why you need solar or generator, are you not connected to the grid ? We get power cuts quite often but I just hook up my car inverter to run power for my computer/wi-fi , Tv and floor fan, at less than 5b a unit for power, I decided ages ago not to spend on Solar. But to answer your question I would go for a generator. I know how to repair them and easy to re-sell if needed.

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

I would be interested to know just why you need solar or generator, are you not connected to the grid ? We get power cuts quite often but I just hook up my car inverter to run power for my computer/wi-fi , Tv and floor fan, at less than 5b a unit for power, I decided ages ago not to spend on Solar. But to answer your question I would go for a generator. I know how to repair them and easy to re-sell if needed.

If you need power because the grid is unreliable, generator is the way to go.

If you want to save money on your electricity bill, grid tie solar is the way to go.

 

After 2 years with GT Solar (cost 22kbht), in another 2 my Solar will have paid for itself.

Another 500bht (COVID) discount this month, because Solar paid most of my  February bill.

[Kwarium]

Generator on order. Yes, it’s because the 4-5 outages per month get to be a real annoyance. Could be momentary, could be 12 hours. 

 

I use solar for outdoor lighting, and also for a motion light in the bathroom. It acts as a nighlight, too.

 

We only run 1 AC in the bedroom at night, so are generally low power users. 

 

It will be great to get a diesel gen in place that kicks on when the power goes out! Put up with outages for years thinking they would eventually iron out the bugs. 

 

Stay well!

 

[Crossy]

10 hours ago, Kwarium said:

Put up with outages for years thinking they would eventually iron out the bugs. 

 

You can absolutely guarantee that the week after you get your genset installed PEA will indeed iron out the bugs, because life is like that  

[driver52]

On 7/29/2021 at 4:05 AM, brianthainess said:

We get power cuts quite often but I just hook up my car inverter to run power for my computer/wi-fi , Tv and floor fan

Doesn't that drain your car battery rather quickly? Think I'm confused what you're doing? lol ????

[Kwarium]

18 hours ago, driver52 said:

Doesn't that drain your car battery rather quickly? Think I'm confused what you're doing? lol ????

Certainly the vehicle engine would need to be running. It’s great that it works in an urgent situation! Diesel Generator seems like the best solution. Of course mine was shipped 1-1/2 days later than I was told.

 

TIT!