3 Tries to Start the Truck

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

You think you have problems, my wife returned home yesterday after passing her driving test, all went well until she drove into our driveway.

 

What speed was the A/C doing when it suddenly shot out in front of her?

 

But you still love her so it's all ok.

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

What speed was the A/C doing when it suddenly shot out in front of her?

 

But you still love her so it's all ok.

I called our son out to punish her.

[Scott Tracy]

My recommendation...take it to a garage.

 

People on here may guess the answer, but without looking at it properly, the answers will all be guesses.

[thairastawoman]

did they clean the engine bay as some very smart people on this forum often recommend ?!

????

 

[DUNROAMIN]

Could also mean your fuel return valve is not working 100%. The fuel can slowly filter back to the tank and when you try to start it can take 3 to 4 attempts to get the fuel into the injectors, sometimes this can cause excess fuel to create black smoke from the exhaust. Sometimes better to go to a recognized dealer, otherwise some Thai back yard boys will try and fix everything but the problem. From personal experience. Cheers

[xtrnuno41]

If you have ECU then probably also a warning on dashboard.

one or more glow plugs are broken. 

powercable of plugs is fault, damaged, loses power (should be 12 volts). Too les heat.

relais for the power on plugs isnt working properly or has corroded contacts. In the latter power drops and not enough heat produced to ignite diesel. Also when relais is not holding on continuously. Then the powercable to the relais could be damaged and not giving full 12 volts continuously. 

your pump isnt working correctly,

there is air or water in fuel system due to broken tubing or a maybe a swivel(loose?).

Your diesel injectors are broken or blocked.

Your air intake is not working properly and you have wrong mixture, same as with the fuel.

 

Your starter motor was on fire. You ran it for long time? and it got hot, It draws quit some amperes (80 A to more) probably not to burn by itself, but with a leaking diesel tube or swivel, the diesel could be set on fire by the hot starter motor then. You see anything getting "wet" when starting?

 

Well some thoughts about it. 

[Ralf001]

7 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I called our son out to punish her.

Hope he offered some lube before inserting that pineapple.

[SW Happy]

11 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Yeah, the lid on the Isuzu stays firmly shut (except for a fluid check) let the dealer deal with things in there, much too complex. The Ford hides everything under a plastic cover, I've never actually looked for glow-plugs.

 

Our old Ford bus in the UK didn't have glow-plugs, what it did have was a coil in the inlet manifold which glowed red, operating the starter sprayed diesel on the coil leading to a nice conflagration which then got pulled into the cylinders. I remember my dad holding a burning diesel soaked rag over the air intake (air filter off) whilst I operated the starter on those really chilly mornings when it really didn't want to wake up (neither did I but it needed two of us).

Used the burning rag routine on old plant/machinery a few times in the past.

[Orinoco]

On 8/5/2021 at 3:16 PM, Crossy said:

 a dribbly injector. 

Yes, I had that many moons ago, in pattaya. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

 

 

[Lokie]

Ok before car wash trouble starting now? - If they had hood up and Jet washed engine bay without protecting vunrable areas/electrics then it points to that, lots of idiots start jetting away under the hood and things then get pi $$ ed wet through which are not supposed to, can then cause failure of componants...

 

Id check all and get an airline to blow out any wet areas though in LOS it should av all dried off by now... Need an OBD reader to check any fault codes raised, the ECU probably had a brain fart when you tried starting it while water ingress as above shorting everything... may just need codes re-setting then ECU can do its thing correctly. 

 

Lumps of wood/hammer is for jammed starter motors on way out lol... not that, Unlikely Glow plugs to start failing unless they due change or you have GP warning light up/coming back on after engine is running - again the Glow Plug relay could have been drenched with water, may have burned out?

 

Get it in a garage have em check fault codes then go from there... (DERV? lol not heard it called that in yrs 555)

[Daffy D]

On 8/6/2021 at 9:01 PM, SW Happy said:

Used the burning rag routine on old plant/machinery a few times in the past.

A glug of petrol in the intake usually got a reluctant diesel going.

 

The burning rag was the  last resort. If that didn't work usually meant something a bit more serious.  

[Steps]

On 8/5/2021 at 3:16 PM, Crossy said:

How old is the beast? Regularly serviced? How far has it been?

 

When it fails to start does it spin over well and just not fire or what?

 

Black smoke from a diesel suggests over-fuelling or a dribbly injector. Does it have any ECU/performance mods?

 

I'm not sure either of our diesels even has glow-plugs, there's certainly no delay to start, press the button and it spins over immediately.

Hi There,

  It is a 2006 model. Done over 200k. I have been regularly servicing it. It has had a new cylinder head about 3.5 years ago. No ECU or performance mods. I think the black smoke may be due to me flooding it when trying to start it. It does tick over but just not fire. 

[Steps]

On 8/5/2021 at 3:35 PM, Anythingleft? said:

Black smoke is over fueling, when you took it for the wash did they do the engine bay and possibly leave a rag in the air intake..? It has been known before.

I think he did do the engine bay. Not sure about the rag in the air intake but i will check

[Steps]

On 8/5/2021 at 4:31 PM, talahtnut said:

If the black smoke clears after a few minutes, followed by

some whitish smoke, you may have a little water in the tank.

 

 

 

Hi The black smoke is just on initial start up. Once i have started it usually disappears so i am thinking that it is due to me flooding the engine as i give a little on the accelerator

[Steps]

On 8/6/2021 at 7:49 AM, inThailand said:

Water got into the fuel system? From the washing? 

Did you ever change the fuel filter?

Changed it about 1.5 years ago. Not sure if water got in the system but i wouldn't put it passed the barstool popping a bit of water in the tank!!!!

[Steps]

On 8/6/2021 at 10:01 AM, sherwood said:

I have a Nissan 2.5 diesel that smoked quite bad, started and ran ok but most of the breather tubes were cracked or broken so I changed them all and the thing goes even better now and zero smoke.

Glow plugs are the first place I would look at. If they look rooted then they more than likely are. 

What fuel do you use.

Good luck.

I will take it back the garage i got the starter changed at and ask him about the condition of the glow plugs. It is a diesel

[Steps]

On 8/6/2021 at 12:57 PM, Scott Tracy said:

My recommendation...take it to a garage.

 

People on here may guess the answer, but without looking at it properly, the answers will all be guesses.

In my humble experience, i have always found it useful to come on here first to get some idea before going to a garage. In my experience, the garages out here can be bordering on criminal in how they operate. They will have your pants down before you have the car door open. I have had a lot of bad experiences with garages out here:

 

• Dropped gearbox sump plug into the drain barrel. Replacement weas not correct and leaked over time causing the gearbox to grind to a halt. Second hand replacement needed
• Full respray: took longer than agreed upon causing me to have to hire a truck for my brothers visit. Did not finish the job properly including leaving the roof (he thought i would not see it probably). Did not put my spare wheel back on and a host of other issues.
• when i got my gearbox replaced, the garage did not put oil in the 4x4 gearbox or replaced with a damaged 4x4 box
• service on truck where they did not replace the oil filter but cleaned it with a rag
• and on and on and on

In my experience, most of these garages are looking to rip off the white man or any other non native. They may even be doing it to their own which says a lot for their ethic and mentality.

 

Bottom line, i will always come on here first if i am personally unsure.

[Pla Simon]

Hi Steps.

 

You have a Mazda truck - take it to a Mazda dealer.

 

It will cost a bit more for the repair, but you will get warranty on workmanship and spares.

 

You can pay around 300 baht for a diagnosis, and then decide to let them fix the issue, or go it alone.

 

As I found out recently - it's a false economy trying to find a decent Somchai garage, and then buy oem parts to save a few baht.

 

Good luck.

[Lancashirelad]

At 200k the engine may be a bit tired, needs glow plugs to start. They aren't working. The temp sensor previously mentioned may operate them when needed and not be working. Water ingress to the electrics has stopped them working.

When you turn on the ignition do you see the glow plug symbol come on & then go off after a few seconds?

When you say 3 tries. Are you almost immedietly releasing the key if it fails to fire straight away? Keep it churning for 5+ seconds and see if it goes. Don't give it any throttle.

The way you are doing it, it starts eventually as you have built up some heat in the cylinders.

The fire in the starter sounds like a lot of carbon dust had built up over the years & you got it hot by using it more than normal. Worn brushes could have been arcing and ignited the dust.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Lancashirelad

[Lancashirelad]

Quote

I'm not sure either of our diesels even has glow-plugs, there's certainly no delay to start, press the button and it spins over immediately.

@Crossy: Does the glow plug symbol come on when you turn on the ignition?

 

[jastheace]

3 attempts to start? does it fire reluctantly and cut out? smoke from exhaust whilst cranking the starter? once started and idling is it lumpy or hesitant?...

[big dendrobenaes]

go to MAZDA services, get it checked out 

[Steps]

On 8/13/2021 at 5:44 PM, Lancashirelad said:

At 200k the engine may be a bit tired, needs glow plugs to start. They aren't working. The temp sensor previously mentioned may operate them when needed and not be working. Water ingress to the electrics has stopped them working.

When you turn on the ignition do you see the glow plug symbol come on & then go off after a few seconds?

When you say 3 tries. Are you almost immedietly releasing the key if it fails to fire straight away? Keep it churning for 5+ seconds and see if it goes. Don't give it any throttle.

The way you are doing it, it starts eventually as you have built up some heat in the cylinders.

The fire in the starter sounds like a lot of carbon dust had built up over the years & you got it hot by using it more than normal. Worn brushes could have been arcing and ignited the dust.

Hi,

  Yes the glow plug signal comes on then goes off. I am letting it churn over for about 5+ seconds. A point to mention is that this only happens after 12 hours of no use. So in the morning, the truck does this and then it will start pretty normal for the rest of the day so i am guessing glow plugs.

 

As people have mentioned here, i will take it to the Mazda garage and get them to look at it to save the hassle of a back street garage second guessing it.

 

Cheers

[Lancashirelad]

It's a very simple job to test if there is current coming to the glow plug feed and simple to test the individual glow plugs, they dont even need to be removed.

In my view it's a waste of money to take a vehicle of this age and mileage to a main stealer, oops, dealer. I'd look for an independant diesel specialist or an auto electrician.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Lancashirelad

[canthai55]

I would look a residual fuel pressure after it has sat for a while.

After 200K the seals are bound to be worn, and the check valve may be allowing fuel to return to the tank. Hence the need to crank it a lot to build up fuel pressure.

If it starts fine for the rest of the day after initial start, sounds like this is a good avenue to explore.

This is all depending on it being mechanical FI - which I take it is the case

Edited August 15, 2021 by canthai55

[Ralf001]

7 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

I would look a residual fuel pressure after it has sat for a while.

After 200K the seals are bound to be worn, and the check valve may be allowing fuel to return to the tank. Hence the need to crank it a lot to build up fuel pressure.

If it starts fine for the rest of the day after initial start, sounds like this is a good avenue to explore.

This is all depending on it being mechanical FI - which I take it is the case

It has an electric in-tank primer pump..... maybe that has died.

[pedro01]

"One morning trying to start it the starter motor caught fire which i quickly extinguished"

 

I tend to go to a professional in cases where parts of my car catch fire

[Steps]

On 8/15/2021 at 3:41 PM, Lancashirelad said:

It's a very simple job to test if there is current coming to the glow plug feed and simple to test the individual glow plugs, they dont even need to be removed.

In my view it's a waste of money to take a vehicle of this age and mileage to a main stealer, oops, dealer. I'd look for an independant diesel specialist or an auto electrician.

Agreed. In the end i felt the same so i took it to what to me looked like a tidy garage in town. Update will follow

[Steps]

OK So just to wrap things up here for anyone who may have similar issues. I did find a decent little garage in town in the end. The issue was indeed down to the glow plugs and once replaced, now starts like a new truck. Thank you for the help and input.

 

Happy motoring!!

[thairastawoman]

so what was wrong please ?