What Worried You More?

[gk10012001]

Remember when STDs were a fear? Remember in the 80s when HIV and AIDs was a fear?  Whole industries initially reacted.  Barber shops carried more germicide. Barbers wore gloves and masks and shields being afraid of blood splatters.  Pools and Jacuzzis closed in places as fears the HIV could be transmitted.  Sports teams isolating people.  Much of that is forgotten these days.  How do some of you compare that with the current COVID ups and downs?  Quarantines, shutdowns, masks, then no masks, distancing, then no distancing, cleaning surfaces then not cleaning surfaces.  

[zzaa09]

With all this consciousness of doom and gloom, there is something more menacing creeping. 

Of the last two weeks to a month, there have been a couple of nastier SARS-CoV mutated strains that have been identified and developing as we speak - spreading uncomfortably fast. 

 

These latest variants are said to have the possibilities of being current vaccine resistant as well as being a much more deadly strain. 

 

Something to look forward to. 

[gk10012001]

2 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

With all this consciousness of doom and gloom, there is something more menacing creeping. 

Of the last two weeks to a month, there have been a couple of nastier SARS-CoV mutated strains that have been identified and developing as we speak - spreading uncomfortably fast. 

 

These latest variants are said to have the possibilities of being current vaccine resistant as well as being a much more deadly strain. 

 

Something to look forward to. 

I would not doubt it.  Even flu vaccines are only 40% effective.  The scientists have to predict in advance what strains to shoot at before they start the mass production.  By the time the vaccines are made, distributed, people get around to getting the shots, etc.., well, a lot of changes have happened. 

[Dmaxdan]

I bet there are a few members on TV that can remember when the Bubonic plague was rife!

 

[gk10012001]

4 minutes ago, Dmaxdan said:

I bet there are a few members on TV that can remember when the Bubonic plague was rife!

 

I do not go back that far, but I am old enough to remember polio.  I was lucky and was just young enough to get the first vaccines.  But two kids in my neighborhood, got polio,  Jimmy Sullivan, and Joe LePlante.  Funny how you remember their names from 60 years ago.  They were older than me and were born before the polio vaccines.  My sister was 2 years older than me and was their age, but luckily did not get Polio before getting vaccinated.

[zzaa09]

8 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

I would not doubt it.  Even flu vaccines are only 40% effective.  The scientists have to predict in advance what strains to shoot at before they start the mass production.  By the time the vaccines are made, distributed, people get around to getting the shots, etc.., well, a lot of changes have happened. 

In fairness [not in defence], most of these remarkable vaccines were purposely designed to be tweaked/upgraded to combat any such mutations that appear to be resistant. Of course.......the reboot takes considerable time to manage and organise. By then, the current nastier strain has changed again - perhaps to something they might not recognize straight away. 

 

In the end nature wins.

[1FinickyOne]

10 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

Jimmy Sullivan, and Joe LePlante.  Funny how you remember their names from 60 years ago. 

Funny, I don't remeber either of them, west side of montreal?

 

Everyone was so thankful when the polio vax came out... can you imagine an anti vax movement then? 

[gk10012001]

1 minute ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Funny, I don't remeber either of them, west side of montreal?

 

Everyone was so thankful when the polio vax came out... can you imagine an anti vax movement then? 

The difference is, back then, there was no hope.  Many people really did know or see polio victims. Some in those horrific Iron Lungs.  Others wheel chair bound, or struggling to walk with deformed hands usless and other atrophied limibs.  It was a horrible and disturbing sight.  With COVID, sure people see videos of people on respirators, IVs and what not.  And sadly many people know personally friends or relatives that suffered or even died.  But to the general population, I don't think it quite looks as scary as Polio did.  The thought of going through life with such a disability back then was terrifying. No job, no money, no income potential, etc.    My opine anyway

[ezzra]

The Bubonic Plague killed roughly 50 million people, Covid is at 4.3 at the moment and still going strong, so strong that even in Israel, the most vaccinated country in the world (80%) there thousands of infections every day and several dozens dead out of a population of only 8.3 million people... So go figure...

Edited August 10, 2021 by ezzra

[gk10012001]

1 minute ago, ezzra said:

The Bubonic Plague killed roughly 50 million people, Covid is at 4.3 at the moment and still going strong, so strong that even in Israel, the most vaccinated country in the world (80%) there thousands of infections every day and several dozens dead out of a population of only 8.3 million people... So go figure...

Yes but the percentages are no where near the same. Plague death estimates are 25% to 60% of the European population.  COVID estimates 1 % on average with variations of course.  In both cases, the general health and nutrition and age of the population changes percentages greatly. In the dark ages, people had horrible nutrition compared to today. 

[Caldera]

I was too young at the time, but from the OP, it seems that paranoia ran rampant back then, too.

 

There are of course sensible measures in both cases. It's when people go over the top when things get silly, such as the latest "sex guidelines" issued by the Thai authorities or their insane obsession with disinfecting vast surfaces in public spaces.

[amexpat]

2 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

Quarantines, shutdowns, masks, then no masks, distancing, then no distancing, cleaning surfaces then not cleaning surfaces.  

It's called learning and making corrections in a changing environment. 

[pomchop]

If the remaining "holdouts" (a nice word for them) in the usa would all go get a simple free readily available shot over the next two weeks covid cases and most restrictions in the USA would be over within a month or two.

But no, won't happen.  Too bad we don't have a vaccine against conspiracy theories and pretend doctors who know nothing other than to spread lies.

[Dmaxdan]

2 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

I do not go back that far, but I am old enough to remember polio.  I was lucky and was just young enough to get the first vaccines.  But two kids in my neighborhood, got polio,  Jimmy Sullivan, and Joe LePlante.  Funny how you remember their names from 60 years ago.  They were older than me and were born before the polio vaccines.  My sister was 2 years older than me and was their age, but luckily did not get Polio before getting vaccinated.

The Polio epidemic was truly horrific. The black and white photos or all those kids in iron lungs is still shocking to this day.

 

As someone who was born in the 1960s, I can actually remember having the Polio vaccine on a sugar cube.

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Dmaxdan

[Captain Monday]

2 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

I bet there are a few members on TV that can remember when the Bubonic plague was rife!

 

Plague sounds nasty but unless you live in a medieval hovel getting bitten by rat fleas it wont spread,

and it is caused by a bacteria curable with antibiotics,

[ArcticFox]

26 minutes ago, pomchop said:

If the remaining "holdouts" (a nice word for them) in the usa would all go get a simple free readily available shot over the next two weeks covid cases and most restrictions in the USA would be over within a month or two.

But no, won't happen.  Too bad we don't have a vaccine against conspiracy theories and pretend doctors who know nothing other than to spread lies.

Sorry.  Some people legitimately want to see long-term vaccine studies and full FDA licensing of the vaccines before climbing on board.  These "vaccines" are still in stage 3 trials albeit, "live trials."  They don't tell you that you're part of an ongoing experiment. Nope.  Like you they demand you to shut your brain off, comply, and just get the shot.  Then when you chose not to participate in the vaccine live trial or give 'informed consent'  - you're called names like "conspiracy theorist" and "anti-vaxxers."  

But the people who balk at taking these brand new, not fully tested vaccines that tweaks your genetics (well except for Sinovac and Sinopharm)?  They understand the risks and choose not to consent.   When the vaccines are fully licensed - then it's a different matter.  Until then, if you consent to take the vaccine you are consenting to be a member of the ongoing vaccine trials.  

Until then, the Nuremberg Codes still stand:

1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.

[frantick]

What worries me more is the mainstream media blasting fear stories left and right to remain relevant.

 

Big print: Next Variant Could be Killer!

 

Small print: Equally, the next variant could be much milder.

[MrJ2U]

2 hours ago, talahtnut said:

As deaths from the vaccine mount up according to VAERS, MHRA.

and the European system, I would prefer taking my chances with

the Flu, with average age of death in UK 82.

All documented government data!

Covid must be biggest scare story ever and with

the most incomprehensible precautionary measures.

Oh please.

 

Your entitled to your fantasy theories but its so wrong.

 

You need to watch the world news and stop following QAnon right wing conspiracy theories.

 

Ugh.

[MrJ2U]

2 minutes ago, ArcticFox said:

Sorry.  Some people legitimately want to see long-term vaccine studies and full FDA licensing of the vaccines before climbing on board.  These "vaccines" are still in stage 3 trials albeit, "live trials."  They don't tell you that you're part of an ongoing experiment. Nope.  Like you they demand you to shut your brain off, comply, and just get the shot.  Then when you chose not to participate in the vaccine live trial or give 'informed consent'  - you're called names like "conspiracy theorist" and "anti-vaxxers."  

But the people who balk at taking these brand new, not fully tested vaccines that tweaks your genetics (well except for Sinovac and Sinopharm)?  They understand the risks and choose not to consent.   When the vaccines are fully licensed - then it's a different matter.  Until then, if you consent to take the vaccine you are consenting to be a member of the ongoing vaccine trials.  

Until then, the Nuremberg Codes still stand:

1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.

Just stay in your room please as your part of the problem.

[MrJ2U]

4 minutes ago, ArcticFox said:

Sorry.  Some people legitimately want to see long-term vaccine studies and full FDA licensing of the vaccines before climbing on board.  These "vaccines" are still in stage 3 trials albeit, "live trials."  They don't tell you that you're part of an ongoing experiment. Nope.  Like you they demand you to shut your brain off, comply, and just get the shot.  Then when you chose not to participate in the vaccine live trial or give 'informed consent'  - you're called names like "conspiracy theorist" and "anti-vaxxers."  

But the people who balk at taking these brand new, not fully tested vaccines that tweaks your genetics (well except for Sinovac and Sinopharm)?  They understand the risks and choose not to consent.   When the vaccines are fully licensed - then it's a different matter.  Until then, if you consent to take the vaccine you are consenting to be a member of the ongoing vaccine trials.  

Until then, the Nuremberg Codes still stand:

1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision.

Unvaccinated people are pools for the virus to mutate.

 

99% of the people hospitalized are unvaccinated.  

 

People who don't get vaccinated will most likely be ostracized and without work for there ignorant and selfish ways.

[sanuk711]

[ArcticFox]

15 minutes ago, frantick said:

What worries me more is the mainstream media blasting fear stories left and right to remain relevant.

 

Big print: Next Variant Could be Killer!

 

Small print: Equally, the next variant could be much milder.

Dooms-Day May Be Coming!!! 

The media is laying the hyperbole on thick.

 

 

[ArcticFox]

17 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

99% of the people hospitalized are unvaccinated.  

I keep hearing that, but I've yet to see a study or the source data. 
If you have a source to attribute that claim - please post the link.  I'd love to read the study and look at the data.. 
"My President told me", or "My TV told me" ain't going to cut it.  Without a link to the source and attribution - the statement really is hearsay. 

[MrJ2U]

1 minute ago, ArcticFox said:

I keep hearing that, but I've yet to see a study or the source data. 
If you have a source to attribute that claim - please post the link.  I'd love to read the study and look at the data.. 
"My President told me", or "My TV told me" ain't going to cut it.  Without a link to the source and attribution - the statement really is hearsay. 

Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. now are in people who weren’t vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the shots have been and an indication that deaths per day — now down to under 300 — could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the vaccine.

 

AP News

June 30, 2021

 

 

CNN) -- COVID-19  "hospitalizations are skyrocketing in more than a dozen states.

The common denominator? The Director of the National Institutes of Health says data shows more than 99 percent of people in the hospital with COVID are unvaccinated."

 

 

[MrJ2U]

4 minutes ago, ArcticFox said:

I keep hearing that, but I've yet to see a study or the source data. 
If you have a source to attribute that claim - please post the link.  I'd love to read the study and look at the data.. 
"My President told me", or "My TV told me" ain't going to cut it.  Without a link to the source and attribution - the statement really is hearsay. 

You wouldn't understand.

You won't until your in a hospital with COVID-19 like so many other anti vaxers.

[ArcticFox]

27 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Unvaccinated people are pools for the virus to mutate.

I keep hearing this too, but I never see the studies backing that assertion.  All we hear are 'experts' who tell the public to trust them.  My trust in government ran out decades ago.  I want to see studies, data, and hard facts. 

Now regarding the statement "Unvaccinated people are pools for the virus to mutate."  This animal study shows it's probably the other way around, i.e., Vaccinated people are likely the source of virus mutation.

According to the study, vaccinated people are pools for the virus to mutate - IF - the vaccination does not convey full immunity.  And guess what?  None of the current crop of Covid vaccines provide the recipient with full immunity.

So the commonly accepted narrative being floated out by politicians and the press is that the unvaccinated are creating mutants that creates severe disease in the vaccinated. 

This study shows the opposite to be true:  "Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts."

This is the exact opposite of what is being said by presidents, PMs, and high-level health care bureaucrats.
The former is a political statement; the latter is a scientific observation backed by research and analysis.

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

[frantick]

14 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

You wouldn't understand.

You won't until your in a hospital with COVID-19 like so many other anti vaxers.

99% worldwide unvaccinated maybe, but only because there wasn't much vaccination going on.

 

Check out countries with large percentages of vaccinated; Iceland, Israel. Their hospitalizations are now starting to become primarily the vaccinated which is logical because nearly everyone is vaccinated. Granted, the vaccines reduce those numbers, I've never denied, but the media doesn't like to report the fact that there will continue to be hospitalizations and death even if everyone gets vaccinated. It's almost impossible to find those vaccinated-hospital vs unvaccinated-hospital numbers, why is that?

[MrJ2U]

4 minutes ago, ArcticFox said:

I keep hearing this too, but I never see the studies backing that assertion.  All we hear are 'experts' who tell the public to trust them.  My trust in government ran out decades ago.  I want to see studies, data, and hard facts. 

Now regarding the statement "Unvaccinated people are pools for the virus to mutate."  This animal study shows it's probably the other way around, i.e., Vaccinated people are likely the source of virus mutation.

According to the study, vaccinated people are pools for the virus to mutate - IF - the vaccination does not convey full immunity.  And guess what?  None of the current crop of Covid vaccines provide the recipient with full immunity.

So the commonly accepted narrative being floated out by politicians and the press is that the unvaccinated are creating mutants that creates severe disease in the vaccinated. 

This study shows the opposite to be true:  "Our data show that anti-disease vaccines that do not prevent transmission can create conditions that promote the emergence of pathogen strains that cause more severe disease in unvaccinated hosts."

This is the exact opposite of what is being said by presidents, PMs, and high-level health care bureaucrats.
The former is a political statement; the latter is a scientific observation backed by research and analysis.

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

PLOS is a good journal.

 

I'm in the arena that everyone that can get vaccinated should.

 

I thinking your more anti vax.  

 

We both have different opinions on the matter.  No use exchanging barbs as we believe in what we believe.

 

Stay safe.

[ArcticFox]

22 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. now are in people who weren’t vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the shots have been and an indication that deaths per day — now down to under 300 — could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the vaccine.

 

AP News

June 30, 2021

 

 

CNN) -- COVID-19  "hospitalizations are skyrocketing in more than a dozen states.

The common denominator? The Director of the National Institutes of Health says data shows more than 99 percent of people in the hospital with COVID are unvaccinated."

 

 

CNN and AP are not science.  That television. Entertainment.  BTW, The Director of the National Institute of Health recently walked back on the 99% assertion.  She changed it to something like, "Well most of the cases are unvaccinated." 

I'm a "Show Me The Science" kind of guy.  Link the studies up and let me see the source data.  But you know what?  Organizations like the NIH won't release the source data.  "Trust us!"

Hell no.  Publish the data.

[MrJ2U]

3 minutes ago, frantick said:

99% worldwide unvaccinated maybe, but only because there wasn't much vaccination going on.

 

Check out countries with large percentages of vaccinated; Iceland, Israel. Their hospitalizations are now starting to become primarily the vaccinated which is logical because nearly everyone is vaccinated. Granted, the vaccines reduce those numbers, I've never denied, but the media doesn't like to report the fact that there will continue to be hospitalizations and death even if everyone gets vaccinated. It's almost impossible to find those vaccinated-hospital vs unvaccinated-hospital numbers, why is that?

 

2 minutes ago, ArcticFox said:

CNN and AP are not science.  That television. Entertainment.  BTW, The Director of the National Institute of Health recently walked back on the 99% assertion.  She changed it to something like, "Well most of the cases are unvaccinated." 

I'm a "Show Me The Science" kind of guy.  Link the studies up and let me see the source data.  But you know what?  Organizations like the NIH won't release the source data.  "Trust us!"

Hell no.  Publish the data.

I don't think you and the tin foil hat guys will ever understand science.

Laughable.