U.S. Housing Prices Explosion Making Repatriation a Less Realistic Option for Many?

Jingthing · July 5, 2022

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

But what you are also saying is that South Dakota does provide a viable option for repatriation.

I'm not saying SD is the only one out of 50 as unique, but come on your doom and gloom just isn't real.

Anecdotal news stories which you love to post just don't reflect the experience of average Americans

You don't live in the US.

We straddle both the US and Thailand, and I see both realities.

You can, for the most part by your own choice be homeless almost anywhere.

But for most regular folks in the US without drugs mental health issues they are surviving just fine, albeit with the struggle of the current inflation spike.

But then again most us here lived through the 70/80's inflation crisis which puts todays 9% in the shade

I said no such thing!

I find your suggestion that homelessness is only about choice and mental illness in a time of historically massive rent hikes coupled with relatively weak wage increases to be incredibly offensive and truly disgusting!

BTW try being borderline homeless or full on the streets for any length of time and see how your mental health holds up.

Then there are those with fixed income, even worse if low.

You got yours, why not just gaslight and blame the suffering of others only on themselves? How convenient.

Back to the topic! Can you do that?

The type of person I was talking about that would be in a total caca storm going back.

Low ss check say 1200.

Low assets. Not enough to buy even a basic <deleted> house in a <deleted> area for cash.

No car.

Could he afford one of your units?

Obviously not.

I recall you saying you wouldn't do Section 8.

You and scads of other landlords.

So what is the name of your SD area?

What options if any would that returning expat have?

I will check it myself if you say the area. Up to you.

Referring to the actual topic here, obviously such an expat would be much better off staying an expat in a lower cost country. Able to afford a nice safe home in an area where a car isn't needed, to eat out daily if they want, to not worry about instant 50 percent rent hikes, indeed to live in dignity.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Jingthing

heybruce · July 5, 2022

11 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Well, per HUD, there are about 600 homeless in the US, so the TINY percentage of of the population represented by South Dakota is significantly higher than the percentage of the population represented by the homeless, yes?

Only 600 in the US? Wow! In 2020 there were over 66,000 in Los Angeles alone. https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/2022-greater-los-angeles-homeless-count/2832385/

Someone's been doing a fantastic job of eliminating homelessness. I'm not sure I want to know how.

GinBoy2 · July 7, 2022

On 7/5/2022 at 5:03 AM, Jingthing said:

I said no such thing!

I find your suggestion that homelessness is only about choice and mental illness in a time of historically massive rent hikes coupled with relatively weak wage increases to be incredibly offensive and truly disgusting!

BTW try being borderline homeless or full on the streets for any length of time and see how your mental health holds up.

Then there are those with fixed income, even worse if low.

You got yours, why not just gaslight and blame the suffering of others only on themselves? How convenient.

Back to the topic! Can you do that?

The type of person I was talking about that would be in a total caca storm going back.

Low ss check say 1200.

Low assets. Not enough to buy even a basic <deleted> house in a <deleted> area for cash.

No car.

Could he afford one of your units?

Obviously not.

I recall you saying you wouldn't do Section 8.

You and scads of other landlords.

So what is the name of your SD area?

What options if any would that returning expat have?

I will check it myself if you say the area. Up to you.

Referring to the actual topic here, obviously such an expat would be much better off staying an expat in a lower cost country. Able to afford a nice safe home in an area where a car isn't needed, to eat out daily if they want, to not worry about instant 50 percent rent hikes, indeed to live in dignity.

Well if you are saying that the only income you have is a $1200 SS check every month you would always have struggled.

I think it's been said before, SS was never designed to be your sole source of income in retirement, and that comes back to that thorny issue of choices made years ago.

You talk many times about changing the subject, but the premise of this thread was about increased cost making repatriation a less realistic option.

I would flip that back and say, maybe if you ever considered repatriation you should have planned for this.

I'm a Californian, but I knew after I moved to Asia that going back there was probably going to be impossible. So I became a South Dakotan years ago to avoid CA State tax and got a house here in Rapid City which I rented out for years.

Living in the moment can be fun, but don't whine if events take a turn which you haven't planned for.

I always thought at some point I'd return to the US, and especially after our son moved to the US that was always gonna happen.

Now maybe I was just lucky, but at least I'd thought about the future prospects, which many others do, and at least gives you an option to repatriate.

No future planning always condemns you to limited options.

And as for me not doing Section 8 housing. Maybe you missed the fact that I did, and got totally hosed by a tenant that trashed the place!

Jingthing · July 7, 2022

40 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Well if you are saying that the only income you have is a $1200 SS check every month you would always have struggled.

I think it's been said before, SS was never designed to be your sole source of income in retirement, and that comes back to that thorny issue of choices made years ago.

You talk many times about changing the subject, but the premise of this thread was about increased cost making repatriation a less realistic option.

I would flip that back and say, maybe if you ever considered repatriation you should have planned for this.

I'm a Californian, but I knew after I moved to Asia that going back there was probably going to be impossible. So I became a South Dakotan years ago to avoid CA State tax and got a house here in Rapid City which I rented out for years.

Living in the moment can be fun, but don't whine if events take a turn which you haven't planned for.

I always thought at some point I'd return to the US, and especially after our son moved to the US that was always gonna happen.

Now maybe I was just lucky, but at least I'd thought about the future prospects, which many others do, and at least gives you an option to repatriate.

No future planning always condemns you to limited options.

And as for me not doing Section 8 housing. Maybe you missed the fact that I did, and got totally hosed by a tenant that trashed the place!

Wow!

You really aren't following this topic, are you?

You insist on personalizing this for preaching purposes when I explicitly already said that personally I do have additional resources.

You seem only interested in a pissing contest and engaging in some kind of noxious Calvinist superior dance. I really don't know why you are posting here except to preach and gloat that the group of expats this issue impacts isn't you Whoopee do. Congratulations

Anyway, people may find theirselves to be lower wealth for a wide variety of reasons and random life events.

Expats often do move abroad with the expectation that it will be for life but of course things can change unexpectedly.

Yes I recall you had a bad experience with a HUD tenant. It doesn't follow that all HUD tenants are bad any more than all non HUD tenants are bad if you had a bad one of those.

I have been a crime victim twice in my life in Portuguese speaking countries. But oddly I don't think all Portuguese speakers are thieves. Go figure!

Edited July 7, 2022 by Jingthing

Jingthing · July 7, 2022

For lower income / wealth expats that want to or need to leave Thailand we've now established that returning to the US will be a dystopian nightmare unless you have something going on like the ability to work for a high salary, relatives who help you a lot, etc.

So what to do?

Move to another lower cost country?

Edited July 7, 2022 by Jingthing

Jingthing · July 7, 2022

We've talked about HUD Section 8 before.

It can be very good but the demand for the vouchers is much more than supply and even if you get them finding a landlord willing to rent Section 8 can be very difficult.

In recent rent price explosion times greedy landlords just want the highest possible price so they don't want to be in the program at all.

Then there are more long term pervasive problems of landlord discrimination against poorer people in (who are often from minority groups).

https://time.com/5783945/housing-vouchers-discrimination/

'A MASK FOR RACIAL DISCRIMINATION.' HOW HOUSING VOUCHER PROGRAMS CAN HURT THE LOW-INCOME FAMILIES THEY’RE DESIGNED TO HELP

--

So bottom line if you're lower income / wealth moving back to the US don't assume Section 8 will save you as it probably won't.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Jingthing

KhunLA · July 7, 2022

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

We've talked about HUD Section 8 before.

It can be very good but the demand for the vouchers is much more than supply and even if you get them finding a landlord willing to rent Section 8 can be very difficult.

In recent rent price explosion times greedy landlords just want the highest possible price so they don't want to be in the program at all.

Then there are more long term pervasive problems of landlord discrimination against poorer people in (who are often from minority groups).

https://time.com/5783945/housing-vouchers-discrimination/

'A MASK FOR RACIAL DISCRIMINATION.' HOW HOUSING VOUCHER PROGRAMS CAN HURT THE LOW-INCOME FAMILIES THEY’RE DESIGNED TO HELP

--

So bottom line if you're lower income / wealth moving back to the US don't assume Section 8 will save you as it probably won't.

I welcomed Sec 8 at my properties, as I know my rent will be on time. The program also made it possible to buy inexpensive properties, in economically depressed areas, and make a nice profit renting them. Easy & fast ROI.

Jingthing · July 7, 2022

This is America.

GinBoy2 · July 7, 2022

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Wow!

You really aren't following this topic, are you?

You insist on personalizing this for preaching purposes when I explicitly already said that personally I do have additional resources.

You seem only interested in a pissing contest and engaging in some kind of noxious Calvinist superior dance. I really don't know why you are posting here except to preach and gloat that the group of expats this issue impacts isn't you Whoopee do. Congratulations

Anyway, people may find theirselves to be lower wealth for a wide variety of reasons and random life events.

Expats often do move abroad with the expectation that it will be for life but of course things can change unexpectedly.

Yes I recall you had a bad experience with a HUD tenant. It doesn't follow that all HUD tenants are bad any more than all non HUD tenants are bad if you had a bad one of those.

I have been a crime victim twice in my life in Portuguese speaking countries. But oddly I don't think all Portuguese speakers are thieves. Go figure!

I am following this topic, whereas you are kinda all over the shop.

I've followed your various threads on where to move, then you detest anyones suggestions, and I think you have no real intention to move.

Very much the same with this thread, which I think is designed to rationalize why you can't repatriate, even even if you wanted to.

Repatriation is not impossible for anyone who had the foresight to plan for it in the just in case scenario.

So you can disparage me and folks like me, but don't rail on us for actually planning for stuff which you clearly didn't think about.

You have had multiple threads about moving to different countries, so just go with that and exclude the United States, problem solved!

Jingthing · July 7, 2022

On 7/8/2022 at 12:48 AM, GinBoy2 said:

I am following this topic, whereas you are kinda all over the shop.

I've followed your various threads on where to move, then you detest anyones suggestions, and I think you have no real intention to move.

Very much the same with this thread, which I think is designed to rationalize why you can't repatriate, even even if you wanted to.

Repatriation is not impossible for anyone who had the foresight to plan for it in the just in case scenario.

So you can disparage me and folks like me, but don't rail on us for actually planning for stuff which you clearly didn't think about.

You have had multiple threads about moving to different countries, so just go with that and exclude the United States, problem solved!

I have indeed posted numerous times that I have no intention to move away from Thailand to any other country including the US.

However for me and some others learning about options and considering a BACKUP plan if things go south in Thailand can be interesting or perhaps wise.

It is obviously a fact that the premise of this topic is correct. For many or even most low income / low wealth expats the US has become dramatically less desirable to move back to. Most rational people don't want to radically degrade their quality of life if they can avoid it.

This is a general topic about a VERY REAL issue for many expats and indeed so many more that never left the US. Not you obviously..

mania · July 7, 2022

4 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

I am following this topic, whereas you are kinda all over the shop.

Actually you may have noticed...some posters are just totally anti-USA everything

They have something bad to say in almost every US topic posted & there are many

Yet folks who actually live in the USA like you & I we are of course all wrong & not "on topic" according to their limited view

But again it is good that folks like yourself do post because in fact there are legitimate expats that want to know the truth about moving back from folks with factual experience in the USA. Unlike info from folks who have not been in the USA in decades & get all their sensationalized truths from the MSM

Edited July 7, 2022 by mania

Jingthing · July 8, 2022

As this topic is about Americans of lower income and wealth and problems getting affordable housing, Section 8 is one possible avenue to solve this.

However sadly in the current environment the program is even more inadequate than usual.

This clip covers why with a lot of details in one state.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Jingthing

KhunLA · July 8, 2022

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

As this topic is about Americans of lower income and wealth and problems getting affordable housing, Section 8 is one possible avenue to solve this.

However sadly in the current environment the program is even more inadequate than usual.

This clip covers why with a lot of details in one state.

That was an issue 35 yrs ago. You wouldn't believe how many people wanted to rent my properties on Sec 8. Supply not even close to the demand, way back then, so can't image how it is now.

Jingthing · July 8, 2022

Out of control rents.

"Income lower than my rent."

Not very long ago this was an affordable area of the country.

With so many people spending so much of their income on rent just to stay off the streets, how does this not lead to social disintegration?

Jingthing · July 8, 2022

Well, there ARE options.

How about a 700 dollar house (IN HELL)?

What I've seen happening over the years is that the options (such that exist) for returning lower income / lower wealth expats keep getting worse and worse but NOW have progressed to ridiculously bad.

It was pretty much always the case that returning to prime price areas like SF Bay Area, Manhattan, etc. were out of the question but as early as perhaps a few to five years ago, there were still LOTS of quite good options. For example Pinelas Country Florida outside of Tampa, and many many more..

But NOW, it's really the DREGS.

So again, why would anyone (lower income / lower wealth / no or low earning power) in their right mind CHOOSE to repatriate to the U.S. now?

But there should be concern for those that for various reasons are more or less PUSHED back.

There are no "halfway houses" waiting for them.

Jingthing · July 9, 2022

So this indeed is what mainstream media has been saying has been happening and consistently so. Obviously at different relative levels in different locations but still something that it is fair to say has been happening across the country.

Perhaps someone can point to some "alternative facts media" sources which are saying US rents are NOT going through the roof?

Edited July 9, 2022 by Jingthing

KhunLA · July 9, 2022

My ol' neighborhood still has houses in the 50k USD mark.

Don't believe everything you read. Could use a bit of touch up.

A twin, cut that big A$$ bush down & some paint up top.

Could buy that, bring it up to specs for Section 8, and rent if out for $1000 a month with no prob.

Still the Land of Opportunity

Buy that, then within 1 year, buy another, then another, then another.

Get 5, then retire ... yep, it IS that easy

Edited July 9, 2022 by KhunLA

Jingthing · July 9, 2022

This is America

heybruce · July 9, 2022

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

My ol' neighborhood still has houses in the 50k USD mark.

Don't believe everything you read. Could use a bit of touch up.

A twin, cut that big A$$ bush down & some paint up top.

Could buy that, bring it up to specs for Section 8, and rent if out for $1000 a month with no prob.

Still the Land of Opportunity

Buy that, then within 1 year, buy another, then another, then another.

Get 5, then retire ... yep, it IS that easy

Good ol' Chester Pennsylvania, known for declining population, high poverty, very poor schools, high crime and a history of political corruption. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester%2C_Pennsylvania

The $50,000 properties in Chester tend to have a lot of issues. https://www.zillow.com/chester-pa/?searchQueryState={"pagination"%3A{}%2C"usersSearchTerm"%3A"Chester%2C PA"%2C"mapBounds"%3A{"west"%3A-75.44840292114257%2C"east"%3A-75.31347707885742%2C"south"%3A39.80697519672637%2C"north"%3A39.88289105840739}%2C"regionSelection"%3A[{"regionId"%3A836935%2C"regionType"%3A6}]%2C"isMapVisible"%3Atrue%2C"filterState"%3A{"sort"%3A{"value"%3A"globalrelevanceex"}%2C"ah"%3A{"value"%3Atrue}%2C"price"%3A{"max"%3A50000}%2C"mp"%3A{"max"%3A226}}%2C"isListVisible"%3Atrue%2C"mapZoom"%3A13}

Jingthing · July 10, 2022

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Good ol' Chester Pennsylvania, known for declining population, high poverty, very poor schools, high crime and a history of political corruption. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester%2C_Pennsylvania

The $50,000 properties in Chester tend to have a lot of issues. https://www.zillow.com/chester-pa/?searchQueryState={"pagination"%3A{}%2C"usersSearchTerm"%3A"Chester%2C PA"%2C"mapBounds"%3A{"west"%3A-75.44840292114257%2C"east"%3A-75.31347707885742%2C"south"%3A39.80697519672637%2C"north"%3A39.88289105840739}%2C"regionSelection"%3A[{"regionId"%3A836935%2C"regionType"%3A6}]%2C"isMapVisible"%3Atrue%2C"filterState"%3A{"sort"%3A{"value"%3A"globalrelevanceex"}%2C"ah"%3A{"value"%3Atrue}%2C"price"%3A{"max"%3A50000}%2C"mp"%3A{"max"%3A226}}%2C"isListVisible"%3Atrue%2C"mapZoom"%3A13}

Well as I mentioned before returning expats who are low income / low wealth / low or no earning potential may typically be limited to the DREGS locations. This is a big downwards change from five years ago.

Of course I reckon any roof over your head usually beats homelessness. But in some cases just barely.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Jingthing

KhunLA · July 10, 2022

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well as I mentioned before returning expats who are low income / low wealth / low or no earning potential may typically be limited to the DREGS locations. This is a big downwards change from five years ago.

Of course I reckon any roof over your head usually beats homelessness. But in some cases just barely.

Lived in Chester for years, and nothing wrong with it, depending what area, as with everywhere.

Just pointing out the 'don't believe' everything, all the doom & gloom read. Went with a place I personally know, knew. My brother just got married, and moved out of Chester last year, selling his home for $55k. Actually was a house I owned and gave to him, since he needed it more than I needed the income it generated (Sec 8 ????). Only negative is probably the worst school district in the state. No kids, no prob.

Better than homeless or living out of car, for mere $300 a month. With McDs paying $15 an hour. Easy living.

Edited July 10, 2022 by KhunLA

heybruce · July 10, 2022

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Lived in Chester for years, and nothing wrong with it, depending what area, as with everywhere.

Just pointing out the 'don't believe' everything, all the doom & gloom read. Went with a place I personally know, knew. My brother just got married, and moved out of Chester last year, selling his home for $55k. Actually was a house I owned and gave to him, since he needed it more than I needed the income it generated (Sec 8 ????). Only negative is probably the worst school district in the state. No kids, no prob.

Better than homeless or living out of car, for mere $300 a month. With McDs paying $15 an hour. Easy living.

The "under $50k" places for sell in Chester shown on Zillow show histories of desperation sells and interiors (when shown) that indicate a need for massive renovation before the building would be minimally fit for occupancy. I suspect they are in the areas people don't want to live in. Perhaps your brother sold too cheaply.

As for "Easy living", if someone can find a reasonably safe place to live out of a tent and use McDonalds for toilet facilities, I guess it's possible. Winters would be tough. Better that than living in one of the under $50k dumps shown on Zillow.

Jingthing · July 10, 2022

Chester PA is no answer.

Check out these rental prices

https://www.zillow.com/chester-pa/rentals/

Ridiculously high and unaffordable for one of the most dangerous places in the country.

Remember the premise here. A returning expat who is low income / low wealth / low or no earning potential.

For example someone on a 1200 social security check and limited assets.

EVENKEEL · July 10, 2022

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Chester PA is no answer.

Check out these rental prices

https://www.zillow.com/chester-pa/rentals/

Ridiculously high and unaffordable for one of the most dangerous places in the country.

Remember the premise here. A returning expat who is low income / low wealth / low or no earning potential.

For example someone on a 1200 social security check and limited assets.

You do understand you're beating a dead horse here. The person you describe has no path forward here in the USA unless, unless he has the skills and desire to survive here.

Will you have to live in your vehicle (if you can afford one)? Yes you probably will have to unless you have family support.

Oh my but where will I shower and use restrooms? I would join a 24 hr gym or one who opens early and closes late. Exercise and shower there.

Or, you can stay in Jomtein, have a condo with AC, beach right there. No need to own transportation, can eat out everyday if you choose or cook at home. Can easily afford an agent to make immigration problems go away. $1200/mo will get you a decent life in Thailand, back home not so much.

KhunLA · July 10, 2022

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Ridiculously high and unaffordable for one of the most dangerous places in the country.

$300 is not ridiculously expensive, and Chester is far from the most dangerous places in the Philly area, let alone the country. I lived there, and never had an issue. Brother just moved from, and also, never had an issue.

I could live on $1200 a month in Chester with no problem. Though would rather be here, as pointed out by EK above.

AND ... McD does pay $15 a hour, that's $2400-taxes more a month. EASY LIVING.

Choices make all the difference ... not excuses. How does one get to retirement age, with no pot to pis in.

Edited July 10, 2022 by KhunLA

EVENKEEL · July 10, 2022

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

$300 is not ridiculously expensive, and Chester is far from the most dangerous places in the Philly area, let alone the country. I lived here, and never had an issue. Brother just moved from, and also, never had an issue.

I could live on $1200 a month in Chester with no problem. Though would rather be here, as pointed out by EK above.

AND ... McD does pay $15 a hour, that's $2400-taxes more a month. EASY LIVING.

Choices make all the difference ... not excuses. How does one get to retirement age, with no pot to pis in.

It happens, the pot I mean. I have a relative age 64 worked all her life , made pretty good money, without a concern for getting old. If it wasn't for family she'd be homeless, because she's lacking in survival skills.

Jingthing · July 10, 2022

I looked up Chester rents.

Posted a link.

Nothing close to 300.

The lowest rent one was 762 but a car dependent area and most were well over 1000.

Stop the gaslighting!

Edited July 10, 2022 by Jingthing

KhunLA · July 10, 2022

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

It happens, the pot I mean. I have a relative age 64 worked all her life , made pretty good money, without a concern for getting old. If it wasn't for family she'd be homeless, because she's lacking in survival skills.

Them choices are a killer. Also know more than a few, that had incomes far surpassing mine, and did nothing but buy c r a p on credit that depreciated. They looked good though ... until they didn't.

KhunLA · July 10, 2022

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I looked up Chester rents.

Posted a link.

Nothing close to 300.

Stop the gaslighting!

Only an idiot rents, that's relative of course. Rough it, till gets enough for FHA loan, then buy a 50k or less house, and mortgage is $300 a month, or so that advert stated. Advantage Chester, low RE Taxes.

Obviously we talking about an idiot to begin with. Retired, and nothing to show for all those years working. Unless dealt a bad hand. Rare, but it happens, and there's social programs for that also. Pick your state and area of wisely.

Don't have a lot of sympathies for folks who made bad choice their whole life.

You can find you way over to an international retirement, but not enough common sense to plan any type of future. Som nam na

Living & being a responsible person isn't much of a challenge. I'm an idiot, no 'skilled' certified trade of any value, or college/Uni degree, and have made every possible mistake in the book ... and yet.

Edited July 10, 2022 by KhunLA

Jingthing · July 10, 2022

NO help is on the way.

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