Got a Prius (or an EV)? Then why not ...

[Crossy]

Yes, that's a Prius with trolley-bus poles.

 

Yes, it's a real photo of an experiment by Muni in San Francisco.

 

No it wasn't particularly successful.

 

EDIT Turns out it may have been rather less than official (that's not actually a Muni logo on the car) https://thebolditalic.com/hacked-prius-running-on-muni-power-lines-the-bold-italic-san-francisco-80cdbe55d68e

 

[tjo o tjim]

My old office in San Francisco looked down on a set of those lines.  Amazing just how often they faulted.  A very high-maintenance solution to be sure.

[Crossy]

 

20 minutes ago, tjo o tjim said:

My old office in San Francisco looked down on a set of those lines.  Amazing just how often they faulted.  A very high-maintenance solution to be sure.

 

Naples (in Italy) has trams on single wire 600V DC, trolley buses on dual wire 600V DC and electric trains on 1,500v DC single wire.

 

There are some very interesting road junctions where the three systems meet! A different kind of italian spaghetti ???? 

 

Our office in Rome had some old public transport photos (sadly I never made copies), one of the vehicles was a trolley bus but it had a fuel cap (so it was a hybrid), it was also right hand drive so taken before Rome changed driving sides in 1925. There's really no such thing as a new idea!

 

[MrJ2U]

Theres not enough places to charge them. 

 

There to expensive because of the excessive taxes to justify short trips to Tesco, Central, 7/11.

 

Many 5 star hotels have a charger or two.

 

But manual times they are out of commission..

[phetphet]

Until they can get rapid charging down to a reasonable time, I  don't think EV's will really become a success.

 

Under 5 mins to fill the average fuel tank vs what for  an electric car?

[TheMysteriousMrTesla]

I find it mildly amusing how many posters just read the topic header and plunge straight in without actually reading the post itself.

 

[ballpoint]

They're testing these in Germany.  Better than the trolley bus system where the poles often come off the wires and have to be manually reattached by the driver..

 

I don't see why we can't make roads like this though.  More fun, and a lot safer.

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

I don't see why we can't make roads like this though.  More fun, and a lot safer.

 

Most suitable for Thai drivers ...

[Crossy]

8 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

They're testing these in Germany.  Better than the trolley bus system where the poles often come off the wires and have to be manually reattached by the driver..

 

I also recall somewhere testing with conductors embedded in the road, like giant slot cars.

[ballpoint]

7 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

I also recall somewhere testing with conductors embedded in the road, like giant slot cars.

Until they fly off the tracks.

[ballpoint]

Conductors in the road would be a lot neater, and maybe cheaper than maintaining miles of overhead wires.  Wellington NZ had 550V DC  trolley buses for over 60 years but got rid of them all a year or 2 ago. Some also had batteries so they could travel short distances off the grid. They reckoned their fleet of trolley buses cost $6M more per year to maintain than their larger fleet of diesels, including the fuel bill.  There was talk of adapting the trolleys to full battery power, but I think that got put on hold.

 

[mrfill]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

I also recall somewhere testing with conductors embedded in the road, like giant slot cars.

I reckon its easier to generate the electricity on board. Saves the hunt to find wires.

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, mrfill said:

I reckon its easier to generate the electricity on board. Saves the hunt to find wires.

 

Yeah, these solutions are all for long distance runs, on-board batteries for off-grid operations.

 

But with the advances in battery and re-charge technologies they may not actually be needed.

[Crossy]

I started this thread as a tongue-in-cheek exercise with an amusing photo, it's gone in an unexpected direction with some very good points ???? 

 

[n8sail]

Back in May I bought an MG EP in Thailand.   8000+km so far, and it's a fantastic vehicle so far.  Fast, VERY CHEAP to run.

I charge at our condo parking off a standard 3-pin outlet.  I drive 90-120km per week day, it's about 80-100 baht per day paying the stupidly expensive 7 baht/unit electricity at the condo.  if I had a house with 4.5 baht/unit electricity at my car park, it would be massively cheaper.  With 380km (300 real world from what I've seen) range, I can go to work and back twice and still have range to spare.  There is a 40kw charger across the street from me, 20% to 80% charge in less than 40mins while I eat food.

 

Don't see the point of wires.  This 50.3kw battery pack is pretty damned efficient, has 8 year warranty, and they can replace just one portion of the pack at a time if cells go bad (unlike a stupid Tesla)

 

Car was 988,000 baht.  Cheaper than a done-up Civic.

 

To be noted, I still  have a Ford Ranger for long trips and moving stuff around, but it stays parked most of the time nowadays.  The EV is just way too fun to drive in comparison.  Blowing away 'Wan Boys' and 'Isaan Ferarris' at stop lights is just WAY too fun.

[Crossy]

@n8sail You have almost exactly the same usage pattern as I do (or I do when not WFH). Definitely considering the EP as our next daily use car. Sell the Mu-X and keep our ancient Ranger.

 

At under a million Baht for a real EV what's not to like?

[AgMech Cowboy]

Hydrogen burning vehicles are the future, not EVs. IMHO

How quickly does you brand new computer battery degrade from 5-6 hours operation to less than 2?  Also the recycling of the EV battery is a myth. Again, IMHO

I'm not surprised by anything that San Fran tries.

[tjo o tjim]

1 hour ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

Hydrogen burning vehicles are the future, not EVs.

Wrong on both counts: burning and Hydrogen.  Range requirements passenger vehicles are well served by batteries, and the advantages over hydrogen to the consumer are insurmountable.  The efficiency penalty of the hydrogen ecosystem makes it only potentially viable for aerospace and possibly long-haul trucking— but the window on the latter closes within 5 years.

 

As for burning it instead of using fuel cells… well, talk about worst of both worlds!

[transam]

7 minutes ago, tjo o tjim said:

Wrong on both counts: burning and Hydrogen.  Range requirements passenger vehicles are well served by batteries, and the advantages over hydrogen to the consumer are insurmountable.  The efficiency penalty of the hydrogen ecosystem makes it only potentially viable for aerospace and possibly long-haul trucking— but the window on the latter closes within 5 years.

 

As for burning it instead of using fuel cells… well, talk about worst of both worlds!

Don't be so sure, early day's....????

[Crossy]

I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all solution, I suspect we are going to end up with several options co-existing. Just like liquid fueled vehicles it's horses for courses, just which horses on which courses isn't clear yet. 

 

Possibly:-

• Battery-electric for small passenger transport.
• Hydrogen for aerospace / long haul trucks and buses.
• Mobile power pickup (the original subject of this thread) with aux batteries for off grid operation for long haul trucks and buses.
• Something else?

 

In the short term BEV scores on every front, basic infrastructure in place, "re-fuel" during down time, high overall efficiency.

 

All of the potential solutions are less polluting than burning fossil fuels.

[tjo o tjim]

17 hours ago, transam said:

Don't be so sure, early day's....????

Physics and Chemistry both give pretty compelling reasons why it won’t be a viable solution long-term.  It’s been nearly 20 years since the first hydrogen-optimized algae were created, and promised efficiency bordering on the day’s commercial PV cells “in a few years.”  (That was about 11-12% efficiency.)  They are still targeting about the same level of efficiency, despite PV pushing double that today.  Research has not been starved of funding either.

Reforming H2 from natural gas is the dominant approach for a reason, and the CO2 reduction compared to burning natural gas in a car is minimal.

Specifically for aerospace, there is a possibility that it will work, but the window of competitiveness is closing.

[brianthainess]

On 9/3/2021 at 10:31 AM, ballpoint said:

 

Is this Thais taking their 'Test'?

[Mansell]

I’ve had a few Prius’s and it’s a great car…..many cities in the US use them as taxis getting well over 250,000 miles on the batteries/motors etc.

Also had a Nissan Leaf ten years ago…..the main limitation was the range, but I believe the newer generations are much better. Charging wasn’t much of an issue because the city had free chargers up the street. When at a party would ask the host if we could plug in, and nobody said no….I think they were impressed with an all electric and they were pretty much a novelty at that point. I probably wouldn’t buy, but lease the vehicle. Electrics are the future, virtually nobody is pushing hydrogen. If in the States go to an alternative vehicle energy show….usually a local thing. Fascinating stuff, guys running their old Mercedes on used cooking oil. Others adapting their cars to run on solar energy. Some strange and intriguing people at these shows.