Re-entry following short exit from Thailand for resident with pink card etc.

[notrub]

10 09 2021

 

Started new topic as a number of replies to earlier question varied and not very applicable (I think).  I don't drink, smoke or go to bars and have little interest in whether they reopen or not or whether I can buy alcohol.  I am legally married and live in a small farming village in Isaan.   I now read that the PM expects to fully open Thailand on October 15 (or so).  Including Bangkok.  My retirement visa is a non 'O'  type which does not require health insurance.  The 'OA' visa requires health insurance.  I have had a COE (certificate of entry?) before and it was a letter giving me permission to exit and come back without voiding my retirement visa. I obtained this from the local immigration office and they were willing to put 1 week or 1 month or whatever as the duration of my visit outside Thailand.  I have many, many stamps in my passport and cannot see if a re entry stamp was given or not. Whatever it was, it worked and was easy.  I did get a new TM6 on re-entry. I can postpone my trip if it looks like the Oct 15th (or shortly after) reopening is actually going to happen.  I will not be coming as a tourist, I will be returning to my home where my Thai wife lives.  I am 72 so health insurance is not available to me (at a price I can afford).   Is it that I will be free to come home as a retired resident or is the tourist effort got everything mixed up?  Thanks very much for any comments.

[Sheryl]

1. Government has issued multiple contradictory statements about re-opening, often on the same day. There is no clear announcement of a decision to reopen on Oct 15th and at this point that date seems unlikely. High level committee (?cabinet?) meeting on Friday could not reach agreement on it. Bangkok Governor has gone on record as opposing it. Case count in Bangkok is still high and levels of full immunization still low.

 

2. What you got in the past from immigration was not a COE. Immigration does not issue those. What you got was a re-entry permit, which you would indeed want to get again but which is not currently sufficient for re-entering the country. A CIE is an altogether different document specific to the COVID period and issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

 

3. Currently to re-enter the country there are 2 paths, ASQ and Sandbox. Both require a COE, pre-departure COVID test, COVID insurance ($100k, for duration of time you will be stamped in for, which would be until the expiration date on your current extension of stay/re-entry permit easily obtained, fo0r a price, up to age 99 years) , and 3 COVID tests after arrival. . ASQ additionally requires that you book 14 day quarantine at an approved hotel; Sandbox requires I think 7 days booking at an approved hotel plus proof of full vaccination and it would be a total of 14 days before you'd be allowed to leave the island. None of these requirements vary by visa type; it is same whether a tourist or a retiree or living with Thai family  etc.

 

If I were you, since it sounds like your dates are flexible, I would hold off for now as things may well change (though probably with an effective date later than  15 October IMO).

 

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

You have to have a re-entry permit to leave and re-enter the if you are on extension of stay to keep it valid.

It should not be hard to find your re-entry permit since it is a stamp that uses about half a page of you passport.

You will still need a COE to enter the country.

[notrub]

Thanks Sheryl and Ubonjoe.  I am going to France to get my rights as a resident confirmed.  I lived there for around 30 years on my UK passport.  I am French taxpayer and pensioner but if I don't go I will lose my rights there due to the brexit event.  I can delay my appointment to register and suppose it will be best to do so until circumstances are more clear here.  I will be going for my 90 day tomorrow and they are quite friendly and helpful at the local office.  I will ask them about all of this then.  I have filled in so many forms and provided so many certified proofs of everything (for four countries) in recent years that this ongoing battle with bureaucracy is beginning to wear me down.  I am who I claim to be, have no criminal record, no debt and enough money to pay my way in life.  Remember: 'Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me.'  Thanks again.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, notrub said:

I will be going for my 90 day tomorrow and they are quite friendly and helpful at the local office.  I will ask them about all of this then

Expect the immigration officials at your local office to know absolutely nothing about the application for a Certificate of Entry (COE). Possibly, they will confidently answer your questions, but it is not part of their job to issue COEs, and they are completely unqualified to advise you about them. For goodness sake, do not make any decisions based on whatever they say. If it were me, I would not even ask them.

[Sheryl]

13 hours ago, BritTim said:

Expect the immigration officials at your local office to know absolutely nothing about the application for a Certificate of Entry (COE). Possibly, they will confidently answer your questions, but it is not part of their job to issue COEs, and they are completely unqualified to advise you about them. For goodness sake, do not make any decisions based on whatever they say. If it were me, I would not even ask them.

Agree with the above. COE etc has nothing whatsoever to do with immigration.

 

But if you do not already have one, you could get a re-entry permit on that trip as you will need it.

[notrub]

Thank you Sheryl, Ubonjoe and BritTim,  I have looked up COE and have read what Siam Legal have posted on their free advice section (and get the gist of it and will not seek advice from local immigration office).  My first question is 'who dreamed this up?'  The only thing missing is that the application must be signed by Maj Major Major.  Do I understand correctly that a COE must be obtained from the country of my departure (France)?  (I will go from Thailand on a Monday and come back here on  Friday.)  And regards insurance, my stay here (in Thailand) will be indefinite.  My retirement visa must be renewed in January but it will be the same visa, just extended for another year.  Does that mean my covid insurance will become a permanent feature of my permission to live in Thailand?  With my 'O' visa, health insurance is currently not required. Best guess: Anybody think that the rules will change (relax) in the next month or two? Thanks again for your comments.

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, notrub said:

.... And regards insurance, my stay here (in Thailand) will be indefinite.  My retirement visa must be renewed in January but it will be the same visa, just extended for another year.  Does that mean my covid insurance will become a permanent feature of my permission to live in Thailand?

Your visa is long ago used and now void. What you have now are extensions of permission to stay issued one year at a time.

 

The COVID insurance is needed only for the duration of your current permission to stay. It is not needed for future extensions.

 

You can reduce the duration of insurance required by delaying your trip to be closer to the expiration of your permission to stay. Note that COVID specific insurance can only be bought for durations  of one, two, three, six and 12 months.

[BritTim]

1 minute ago, notrub said:

Thank you Sheryl, Ubonjoe and BritTim,  I have looked up COE and have read what Siam Legal have posted on their free advice section (and get the gist of it and will not seek advice from local immigration office).  My first question is 'who dreamed this up?'  The only thing missing is that the application must be signed by Maj Major Major.  Do I understand correctly that a COE must be obtained from the country of my departure (France)?  (I will go from Thailand on a Monday and come back here on  Friday.)  And regards insurance, my stay here (in Thailand) will be indefinite.  My retirement visa must be renewed in January but it will be the same visa, just extended for another year.  Does that mean my covid insurance will become a permanent feature of my permission to live in Thailand?  With my 'O' visa, health insurance is currently not required. Best guess: Anybody think that the rules will change (relax) in the next month or two? Thanks again for your comments.

Recognise that the COE can take anything up to two weeks to get, even with the right paperwork.

 

You will only need Covid insurance until the January expiry of your current permission to stay. There will be no need for ongoing insurance.

 

It is very likely that there will be changes for the better in the next month or two. It is dangerous to make assumptions about what they might consist of. If you are not fully vaccinated, the loosening of restrictions might not apply to you.

[Grusa]

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

Recognise that the COE can take anything up to two weeks to get, even with the right paperwork.

 

You will only need Covid insurance until the January expiry of your current permission to stay. There will be no need for ongoing insurance.

 

It is very likely that there will be changes for the better in the next month or two. It is dangerous to make assumptions about what they might consist of. If you are not fully vaccinated, the loosening of restrictions might not apply to you.

So, is it possible to apply for a CoE from the Embassy of the country to which you are going, before you have even got there? e.g. for a day/3day/1week trip on business to Singapore? 

(Never mind the other questions like are there flights or what do the SGs think/want/do)

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Grusa said:

So, is it possible to apply for a CoE from the Embassy of the country to which you are going, before you have even got there? e.g. for a day/3day/1week trip on business to Singapore? 

(Never mind the other questions like are there flights or what do the SGs think/want/do)

You do not apply to an Embassy. You apply online to the MFA.  https://coethailand.mfa.go.th/

 

But in the application you need to state the Embassy/Consulate you will be using based on your overseas address. And you need an exact travel date.

[arithai12]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:53 PM, Sheryl said:

Sandbox requires I think 7 days booking at an approved hotel plus proof of full vaccination and it would be a total of 14 days before you'd be allowed to leave the island.

 

 

 

 

Sorry Sheryl I quote the only part of your post which is not completely correct.

The Sandbox program (which at the moment is for Phulet only) requires that you book 14 days at a SHA+ hotel. Your mention of 7 days probably comes from the fact that indeed you are allowed to change hotel after 7 days. So for example two different SHA+ in Phuket (or 7 in Phuket and 7 in Samui).

The other thing worth mentioning about the Sandbox is that only selected nationalities can apply.

[CartagenaWarlock]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:39 AM, notrub said:

I have had a COE (certificate of entry?) before and it was a letter giving me permission to exit and come back without voiding my retirement visa.

COE is not the same as reentry  permit. You don't need anybody's permission to leave the country unless you're a criminal which I suppose you're not. You may need a reentry permit to keep your permitted to stay  date valid and return on or before that day. COE is the new thing (introduced in the age of Covid-19) and  required to enter the country, even if you have reentry permit or a valid visa.

 

 

[davidkas]

22 hours ago, Sheryl said:

You do not apply to an Embassy. You apply online to the MFA.  https://coethailand.mfa.go.th/

 

But in the application you need to state the Embassy/Consulate you will be using based on your overseas address. And you need an exact travel date.

If you are in France only for a short time I believe there is nothing to prevent you starting the application for the COE whilst you are still in Thailand as long as you have all the paperwork ready to upload.

You would get then pre approval and only need to finish the final application from within France. Just a thought, I'm sure I will be corrected if I am wrong! ????

[BritTim]

24 minutes ago, davidkas said:

If you are in France only for a short time I believe there is nothing to prevent you starting the application for the COE whilst you are still in Thailand as long as you have all the paperwork ready to upload.

You would get then pre approval and only need to finish the final application from within France. Just a thought, I'm sure I will be corrected if I am wrong! ????

I think it likely to be true in practice, though there have periodically been statements to the effect that you need to have been in a country for 14 days in order for a COE to be valid at the time of your departure. This is supposed to deal with a potential loophole that allows people to travel from a country with a very high rate of Covid to an intermediate safer country, and then leave immediately for Thailand. I have not heard of this being enforced.

[ubonjoe]

32 minutes ago, BritTim said:

This is supposed to deal with a potential loophole that allows people to travel from a country with a very high rate of Covid to an intermediate safer country, and then leave immediately for Thailand. I have not heard of this being enforced.

It is 21 days for the Phuket sandbox and Samui plus.

From a infographic on this webpage. https://thaiembdc.org/phuketsandbox/

[Postmaster]

Are Non-O Visa Holders with multiple extensions and a property owner regarded as ' Residents'

of Thailand  for this purpose. Thanks anyone.

 

[BritTim]

19 minutes ago, Postmaster said:

Are Non-O Visa Holders with multiple extensions and a property owner regarded as ' Residents'

of Thailand  for this purpose. Thanks anyone.

 

No, residents in this context means those with permanent residency status.

[ubonjoe]

41 minutes ago, BritTim said:

No, residents in this context means those with permanent residency status.

I am not sure about that. I think it may mean with a residence in Thailand.

[notrub]

I have a yellow book, pink card, usufruct and a marriage certificate but I am still on a retirement visa that must be extended annually.  Becoming a resident is a lengthily process that takes years to complete.