Advise wanted on making will in Thailand wanted.

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, Chris.B said:

In English? I thought a Thai will needed to be in Thai?

According to Thai Law For Foreigners you can write you will in whatever language you wish, but it might - or will - need to be translated to Thai later.

 

A will just need to signed by two witnesses that witness you have signed it, the Amphor-office just works as witness for signature, and you can keep the will on record there, but that is not a demand.

[prakhonchai nick]

Why involve the amphur?

 

Write your own Will (or pay some 3/4,000bt to have it done for you) have it witnessed by 2 people and keep it safely.

 

If probate is required after death the Will will need to be translated into Thai. Think about joint bank accounts -the only problem being visa extensions.........but there are simple ways round that. Only problem is condo and vehicle ownership. Do you trust your wife/partner enough to put them in her name?

 

Why feed the lawyers unnecessarily.  A widow I knew had to pay 50,000baht probate fee to release 105,000baht from a Thai bank. Totally unnecessary ifyou prepare beforehand.

 

[Raindancer]

Deleted 

[Raindancer]

6 minutes ago, khunPer said:

According to Thai Law For Foreigners you can write you will in whatever language you wish, but it might - or will - need to be translated to Thai later.

 

A will just need to signed by two witnesses that witness you have signed it, the Amphor-office just works as witness for signature, and you can keep the will on record there, but that is not a demand.

Correct????

[seedy]

10 minutes ago, prakhonchai nick said:

  A widow I knew had to pay 50,000baht probate fee to release 105,000baht from a Thai bank. Totally unnecessary ifyou prepare beforehand.

All wills in LOS need to go before the court for probate

[NE1]

22 hours ago, mikeinkamala said:

I have now been told that I need to have a letter from a doctor saying that after examining me I am compos mentis and  not mentally impaired.

Funny that , because when I did my will at the Amphur office , they told my wife I had to go to the doctor , when she asked why , she was told " to see if he is healthy " was the reply.

So off we toddled to the local hospital , after a considerable wait we finally met the doctor and explained about the will and the Amphur. He didn't know what they wanted him to do . So he took my blood pressure , stuck a stethoscope on me , asked if I was okay and that was it. Cost 100 baht.

[Raindancer]

13 minutes ago, seedy said:

All wills in LOS need to go before the court for probate

No.  Only if items under probate is needed.

[Liverpool Lou]

19 hours ago, Will B Good said:

If you make a will leaving everything to your wife....who then becomes your ex.......what is to stop you disinheriting her by writing a new will?

Absolutely nothing.   You write your will, you choose who are beneficiaries and you can change it at any time.

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Absolutely nothing.   You write your will, you choose who are beneficiaries and you can change it at any time.

Thought that might be the case.........seems a little unfair on the disinherited party.

 

I thought there might be some mechanism that ensures they are at least informed of the change or even (can of worms) have to consent to the change.

 

If someone has a wife who cares for them for years, promises they will inherit and then they find out the deceased person's estate has been to left to Battersea Dogs Home.........!!!!

[Liverpool Lou]

7 hours ago, Chris.B said:

In English? I thought a Thai will needed to be in Thai?

 

A foreigner's will can be written in Thai or English, if it's in English it will have to be translated into Thai before it can be processed in Thailand.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, NancyL said:

If your only assets are bank accounts, then often probate isn't needed. 

That is incorrect.  Under Thai law, probate is always required legally if there are assets to be distributed.   "Beneficiaries" cannot just help themselves!

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, seedy said:

2 hours ago, NancyL said:

 If your only assets are bank accounts, then often probate isn't needed.  However, a "court order", i.e. probate is needed if you own other property like a condo or vehicle.

As always - good advice.

Unfortunately not, her advice is not accurate.    Legally, that is not correct under Thai law. 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, TigerandDog said:

7 hours ago, Chris.B said:

In English? I thought a Thai will needed to be in Thai?

 

it needs to be in both languages or in your native language and a certified Thai translation. It does not need to be registered at the Amphur.

It does not need to be written in Thai initially to be valid but it will need to be translated before processing by authorities here.

[Liverpool Lou]

48 minutes ago, seedy said:

All wills in LOS need to go before the court for probate

That is correct but all estates, regardless of the size, intestate or not, have to obtain probate under Thai law, not just those that involve wills.

[Liverpool Lou]

37 minutes ago, Raindancer said:

51 minutes ago, seedy said:

All wills in LOS need to go before the court for probate

No.  Only if items under probate is needed.

Under Thai law, probate is needed in all cases if there are assets of the deceased's estate to be distributed.

[Will B Good]

I thought probate was the entire process of dealing with all of someone's estate regardless of there being a legal will or not.

 

Probate can't be avoided or missed out.....it is the process followed after death.

[1FinickyOne]

21 hours ago, Will B Good said:

If you make a will leaving everything to your wife....who then becomes your ex.......what is to stop you disinheriting her by writing a new will?

 

Not a situation I am in.....it is just something that has crossed my mind before.

nothing - if he is alive and wants to change his will at any time for any reason, he can do that as he probably can in any country... including your beloved land of fish and chips and football hooligans... New wills are made and changed all the time. 

[TheFishman1]

 Just three days ago I did a LivingWell and I will put on my desk I had it notarized and everything and they didn’t ask for any doctors to say I was in sound mind running that stuff 

[1FinickyOne]

I did not have my will presented at an amphor. I left it in the lawyers office. No health certificate needed. Is there a reason they think you are crazy? And no doc will certify that you are not? I used to get medical certificates for 20 baht.. no examination.. now it is 50 baht... 

[curtklay]

1 hour ago, prakhonchai nick said:

 

 

If probate is required after death the Will will need to be translated into Thai. Think about joint bank accounts -the only problem being visa extensions.........but there are simple ways round that. Only problem is condo and vehicle ownership. Do you trust your wife/partner enough to put them in her name?

 

 

 

Can you please explain the ways around visa extension problems using joint accounts? 

[1FinickyOne]

7 minutes ago, curtklay said:

Can you please explain the ways around visa extension problems using joint accounts? 

As far as I know, there is no way around it... joint accounts are not accepted. I tried that once but many years ago. That said, it is better to have a bank account here than in the home country because probate will go quicker. 

[LoeiI]

2 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

nothing - if he is alive and wants to change his will at any time for any reason, he can do that as he probably can in any country... including your beloved land of fish and chips and football hooligans... New wills are made and changed all the time. 

Fish Chips n Football Hooligans ya cheeky <deleted> (you forgot the mushy peas)

[The Hammer2021]

4 hours ago, NE1 said:

Funny that , because when I did my will at the Amphur office , they told my wife I had to go to the doctor , when she asked why , she was told " to see if he is healthy " was the reply.

So off we toddled to the local hospital , after a considerable wait we finally met the doctor and explained about the will and the Amphur. He didn't know what they wanted him to do . So he took my blood pressure , stuck a stethoscope on me , asked if I was okay and that was it. Cost 100 baht.

Yes. It's called a 'Fittness to Die' certificate. FTDC

[1FinickyOne]

8 hours ago, LoeiI said:

Fish Chips n Football Hooligans ya cheeky <deleted> (you forgot the mushy peas)

It was sort of an inside joke as he had insulted Americans... personally I think you guys should send over a stadium full of hooligans and take the colony back... 

[NancyL]

21 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Under Thai law, probate is needed in all cases if there are assets of the deceased's estate to be distributed.

I know of several instances where Final Wills were accepted by a local Thai bank in Chiang Mai without probate where the executor and deceased were well known by the bank management and they had visited the bank management within a year before the death to make sure their wishes were known. 

 

In several cases, the bank balances were up to 1 million baht.  If the amount was over a certain amount, I think 50,000 baht, then all documents had to go to the bank's HQ in Bangkok for approval and it took about a month for the money to be released.  For smaller amounts, all the bank asked was for the account to be left open for at least a month if a money pension had been deposited, in case the pension provider wanted to claw back the money.  Otherwise, they could close the account on the spot.

 

This is especially helpful for someone who is diagnosed with a terminal condition and wants to get their financial affairs in order before passing, to make sure that their 800,000 baht bank account for their visa goes to the intended beneficiary with a minimum of delay or expense.  Do a Final Will and talk with the bank management about your condition and wishes.

 

As I wrote in an earlier post, probate is needed if other assets are involved, like a vehicle or condo in order to transfer title.

[Will B Good]

17 hours ago, LoeiI said:

Fish Chips n Football Hooligans ya cheeky <deleted> (you forgot the mushy peas)

Battered sausage every time 

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

I know of several instances where Final Wills were accepted by a local Thai bank in Chiang Mai without probate where the executor and deceased were well known by the bank management and they had visited the bank management within a year before the death to make sure their wishes were known. 

That the bank was acting illegally does not make it right.   Under Thai law, when there are any assets to be distributed probate has to be granted by the court.   No one can just help themselves to a deceased assets and an executor cannot tell a bank employee to disregard probate law, no matter how well they are known to each other.

[NancyL]

On 10/23/2021 at 5:29 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

That the bank was acting illegally does not make it right.   Under Thai law, when there are any assets to be distributed probate has to be granted by the court.   No one can just help themselves to a deceased assets and an executor cannot tell a bank employee to disregard probate law, no matter how well they are known to each other.

I'm sorry Liverpool Lou, but are you a Thai lawyer?  If so, then perhaps you can send me a PM and I'll give you details of the manager and branch of the bank involved.  Actually, this has happened with two managers of the same branch with at least six deceased expats of various nationalities.  This branch is known to be very expat-friendly.

 

In all fairness, I've also known the managers of this branch to refuse if they knew something wasn't quite right, like the deceased had set up a bank account for a mia noi, unknown to the wife, or children who were likely to contest the Final Will.  Then they wanted a court order, i.e. probate.

[Liverpool Lou]

10 hours ago, NancyL said:

I'm sorry Liverpool Lou, but are you a Thai lawyer?  If so, then perhaps you can send me a PM and I'll give you details of the manager and branch of the bank involved. 

What would I need the details of the bank staff for and why a PM?  Post the details here if you're so sure they were right, not that it would make any difference to the law.    

 

There are probate laws here in Thailand, and, when an estate's assets such as bank deposits have to be distributed, probate is required to be granted by a court under Thai law, whether you like it or not.   Bank staff's not complying with them by handing out cash from a deceased person's account does not mean that those laws do not exist or do not need to be observed.  Banks are required to freeze banks accounts on being advised of the death of the account holder until probate gives permission for them to be distributed.

 

Are you a Thai lawyer, NancyL?   Are the bank manager and his accomplice, who allegedly paid out a deceased persons estate without probate, lawyers?   Didn't think so.

[NancyL]

OK, it's Bangkok Bank Kad Suan Kaew, Chiang Mai and it's not just one bank manager doing this, but rather the branch manager, the assistant manager who is most knowledgeable about the expat clients and they get approval from Bangkok Bank's HQ for any distribution larger than, I think, 50,000 baht.  It's not just one "underhanded" bank employee engaging in this practice.

 

I've known them to resist, like when they knew the deceased had a joint account with his mia noi.  Wanted to make sure he didn't have any children from that relationship, I suspect.  Wife didn't know about the mia noi, of course.

 

With one case where I was the executor, the deceased deliberately left nothing to her children, whom she hadn't seen in over 40 years.  But she had very detailed instructions about who was to receive the rest of her estate.  The bank management insisted I receive documentation from her children that they were OK with being left out of the Will and weren't going to challenge it.  Her children were OK with this, thankfully, because if they'd chosen to challenge her Will, it would have eaten up her estate in legal fees.

 

As I've said, the cases where I have first hand knowledge are often cases where an elderly expat has been diagnosed with a terminal condition and has time to get his/her affairs in order, has been banking at the KSK branch for years and the deceased, executor and often the beneficiaries are well-known to the banking staff.  Often they encourage the expat with a terminal diagnosis to transfer funds before death, but sometimes this can't be done because of visa concerns.  It's a blessing for an elderly expat with a terminal diagnosis to know their wishes will be carried out with a minimum of fuss.