Thailand grants citizenship to half a million people – but not farangs

[Jeffr2]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/

 

People who are fully vaccinated against covid-19 are far less likely to infect others, despite the arrival of the delta variant, several studies show. The findings refute the idea, which has become common in some circles, that vaccines no longer do much to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

 

“They absolutely do reduce transmission,” says Christopher Byron Brooke at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. “Vaccinated people do transmit the virus in some cases, but the data are super crystal-clear that the risk of transmission for a vaccinated individual is much, much lower than for an unvaccinated individual.”

 

A recent study found that vaccinated people infected with the delta variant are 63 per cent less likely to infect people who are unvaccinated.

[HappyExpat57]

Respectfully, hasn't this subject been beaten to death? There are two camps: Those who accept the science and those who don't. You are not likely to change minds using science/facts. Just sayin'.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, HappyExpat57 said:

Respectfully, hasn't this subject been beaten to death? There are two camps: Those who accept the science and those who don't. You are not likely to change minds using science/facts. Just sayin'.

Neither of those camps are his target. The many, many people who genuinely don't know are. Just sayin'

[Jeffr2]

12 minutes ago, HappyExpat57 said:

Respectfully, hasn't this subject been beaten to death? There are two camps: Those who accept the science and those who don't. You are not likely to change minds using science/facts. Just sayin'.

True. Beaten to death. Sad some don't or can't understand what the science says. And sad that they don't want to know the truth.

[HappyExpat57]

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Neither of those camps are his target. The many, many people who genuinely don't know are. Just sayin'

My point is if someone hasn't heard this by now it's cuz they're living in a cave with a sack over their heads. Maybe, hopefully, one of those cave dwellers came out and saw this post. I guess no harm done. Membership is free, yes?

[ozimoron]

Just now, HappyExpat57 said:

My point is if someone hasn't heard this by now it's cuz they're living in a cave with a sack over their heads. Maybe, hopefully, one of those cave dwellers came out and saw this post. I guess no harm done. Membership is free, yes?

If that's the case why are so many people continuing to repeat lies here that have been debunked or disproved many times over? Are they living in a cave and not seeing the evidence? That's where the harm is coming from. Not an attack against you but the many zealots here who continue to wish death upon the world.

[Jeffr2]

Just now, ozimoron said:

If that's the case why are so many people continuing to repeat lies here that have been debunked or disproved many times over? Are they living in a cave and not seeing the evidence? That's where the harm is coming from. Not an attack against you but the many zealots here who continue to wish death upon the world.

From what I can tell, many of those who repeat lies are from the right wing.  Links they put up are from dodgy right wing media sites, which luckily, are taken down quickly here.  They live in a bubble of misinformation.  Fighting against science, big government, etc, etc, etc.

 

We're living in crazy times.

[Longwood50]

If the person is vaccinated it inhibits them being able to contract coronavirus.  If the person does not have active covid 19 it would seem impossible for them to transmit it to another person.  

So isn't this really saying that vaccines protect you from getting Covid 19 and therefore you can't spread it because you are less likely to ever be infected with it. 

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

If the person is vaccinated it inhibits them being able to contract coronavirus.  If the person does not have active covid 19 it would seem impossible for them to transmit it to another person.  

So isn't this really saying that vaccines protect you from getting Covid 19 and therefore you can't spread it because you are less likely to ever be infected with it. 

From that article:

 

What is important to realise, de Gier says, is that the full effect of vaccines on reducing transmission is even higher than 63 per cent, because most vaccinated people don’t become infected in the first place.

[Longwood50]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

What is important to realise, de Gier says, is that the full effect of vaccines on reducing transmission is even higher than 63 per cent, because most vaccinated people don’t become infected in the first place.

So is this saying that if a vaccinated person does become infected with Covid they are 63% less likely of transmitting it to someone else?   That might make sense given that vaccinated people are suppose to have only a milder case of Covid. 

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

So is this saying that if a vaccinated person does become infected with Covid they are 63% less likely of transmitting it to someone else?   That might make sense given that vaccinated people are suppose to have only a milder case of Covid. 

I think the viral load is lower.  Maybe someone else out there can help.

[KC 71]

Sorry to say, but the truth might just come to bite you on the ass !

???? ???? !

BOOM ????

 

[mommysboy]

In that Pfizer and AZ prevent are 80% effective at preventing symptomatic infection (according to latest research) it's reasonable to assume transmission will also be reduced. Their role in other situations is not certain.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Reason has Prevailed with the Majority. Unfortunately the Minority are Substantial (20%?), Unreasonable and Dangerous , willing followers & spreaders of Pseudo Science, Fear and Conspriracies…..as well as Covid spreaders.

 

The vax -refuser Minority are now Hardcore Rebels who will NEVER be persuaded by WORDS (Reasonable Logical Scientific). They are an existential threat to Society, like Violent Criminals, who must be convinced / compelled / punished now by ACTION ; meaning LAWS.

 

Initially, Persuasive Actions such as compulsory VIEWING of Long Covid Sufferers, ICU Wards, Covid Morgues, Covid Health Workers; if that doesn’t work then official Isolation, Discrimination, Naming &  Shaming. Job Loss & Travel Restrictions already happening from both public and private orgs.

 

There will inevitably be another similar / worse pandemic in ten years or so.

Advanced Society needs to NOW adapt permanently by implementing suitably protective Systems, Tech, Laws.

[LarrySR]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

From what I can tell, many of those who repeat lies are from the right wing.  Links they put up are from dodgy right wing media sites, which luckily, are taken down quickly here.  They live in a bubble of misinformation.  Fighting against science, big government, etc, etc, etc.

 

We're living in crazy times.

The anti vaccine muppets have a pre existing condition called ‘Foxitis.’

 

When they aren’t here spreading misinformation you can find them denying climate change, or discussing how GWBUSH’s cousin brought down the World Trade Center with nano thermite, or talking about Obama’s fake birth certificate or Hillary dismembering baby’s in a pizza parlor basement & taking nourishment from baby blood. 
Yes, they walk amongst us. 
 

Edited October 30, 2021 by LarrySR

[The Cipher]

Quote

That's where the harm is coming from. Not an attack against you but the many zealots here who continue to wish death upon the world.

After having to register for my third vaccine passport in the last month (this time with gov-mandated authenticator app!) I have decided to go on a (probably ill advised) rant.

 

I'm a pro-vaxxer. I got vaccinated and generally encourage other people to do the same. But bluntly, I believe that it's every individual's choice to get or not get the vaccine. We need to just accept that and open up. Like, 100% open up. If they die, they die. If they pass it to a vulnerable person and the vulnerable person dies, they die. If they pass it to me and I die, I die. The ongoing disruption of normal life at this point is ridiculous. Like, it's legit insane.

 

On a percentage basis, Covid has always only killed very small amount of people. As we learned more about the disease, that rate declined. And as vaccines rolled out and continue to roll out across the world, that rate has declined further. At this point we are looking at rates well below 1% mortality in fully vaccinated persons. Please don't @ me with "bUt MiLliOnS oF pEopLe." If you want to say that, all you're really saying is that you don't understand percentages and you're bad at math (among other things).

 

At some point during the pandemic, society seems to have collectively decided that its overriding imperative was to prevent Covid cases at all costs. All other considerations be damned. As far as I'm aware that was never debated at any point, and the logic of the premises underpinning that idea never came under scrutiny. Most people aren't even aware that it's a values judgment rather than a fundamental truth or necessity (if you understand this, try and explain it someone and watch their brains contort in any attempt not to process. You might even see it in responses to this post). People were scared, and that made restrictions politically expedient. The result? This single minded obsession with minimizing case counts regardless of the proportionality of measures taken to that effect.

 

At this point we're still seeing panic of single digit deaths per day. In some parts of the world determined to stick to a zero Covid policy, we see mass restrictions over even a single new case. Like, are you serious? Does it not occur to people at any point how absolutely disproportionate measures are now to risk? Many countries (with vaccine saturaiton 70%+!) are still maintaining abnormal measures affecting day to day life, to say nothing of high barriers to international travel. It's unbelievable.

 

How much inconvenience are we going to have to endure before we just nut up and get on with it? Like, if you're a person who genuinely thinks Covid is still a big deal, what specific rate or number would be the threshold at which you would no longer feel that arduous measures were warranted? Have you even thought about it? Because I'm betting you haven't.

 

Ok rant over. I feel less frustrated now. As you were, lads. Carry on.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Covid should never have been a big deal. US / UK covid death rate around 0.2% total pop. Just add it to list of similar proportionate old sick people killers like winter flu, cancer, pneumonia, age…. but no, because so many younger self -abusers were dying from covid (fatties, smokers, druggies, alkys, backward cultures), and could not be isolated, including PM Johnson, ALL of us had to assume the burden of “protecting” these wasters, who were already bringing our national health services to their knees with necessary million dollar type Organ Transplants to prolong their generally miserable worthless lives, at expense always of innocent healthy taxpayers often denied medical care as an

additional burden……including in- breeding “cultures” producing disabled kids in UK etc. at ten times the indigineous rates……

 

Farewell Normality, Society, Economy, Jobs, Businesses. 

Greetings Increased Poverty, Despair, Mental Illness.

 

Recall that Triffid movie where the few Sighted were chained to the many Blind as human guide dogs.

Covid the exact reverse, where the extremely few Sick chained to the 99% + Healthy by the Idiot Politicians on grounds of “ compassion”… and the false but vote winning mantra that “ every life is priceless” , which later drove the wacky left wing nanny states like NZ, Aus, Cali, etc. to their insane Zero Covid nonsense ….. so all of us dragged off the cliff…..human mass psychosis at its “finest”……

[johng]

3 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

including in- breeding “cultures” producing disabled kids in UK etc. at ten times the indigineous rates……

I think I agree with everything  you said except the bit I quoted above

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

johng: just google pakistani uk community rates & causes of disabled births.

[Stubby]

Whatever camp you're in, I think everyone agrees that double-jabbed people who go on to catch COVID are just as infectious as the unjabbed. That's assuming you're up to date with the latest develoments.

The New Norm Is Upon Us, Ain't It?
 

Folks, to curb transmission, everyone—including the fully-vaccinated—should carry on wearing masks, maintain physical distancing, and continue testing. Alas, it seems like this is the new norm until the end of time, or... until something more lethal comes along. 

Human Extinction Is Imminent
 

It seems that humans could be among the first casualties in the earth's current wave of extinctions. And why not? After all, over 99% of the 4 billion species that evolved before us are long gone. Moreover, scientists say that 150-200 species of plant, insect, bird, and mammal become extinct every 24 hours.

And we're no match for Mother Nature, either. Heck, we can't even stop a shower!

Stubby

Edited October 30, 2021 by Stubby

[HappyExpat57]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

If that's the case why are so many people continuing to repeat lies here that have been debunked or disproved many times over? Are they living in a cave and not seeing the evidence? That's where the harm is coming from. Not an attack against you but the many zealots here who continue to wish death upon the world.

Again, exactly my point. You will not change their minds regardless of the facts. The willfully ignorant affect us all.

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, The Cipher said:

After having to register for my third vaccine passport in the last month (this time with gov-mandated authenticator app!) I have decided to go on a (probably ill advised) rant.

 

I'm a pro-vaxxer. I got vaccinated and generally encourage other people to do the same. But bluntly, I believe that it's every individual's choice to get or not get the vaccine. We need to just accept that and open up. Like, 100% open up. If they die, they die. If they pass it to a vulnerable person and the vulnerable person dies, they die. If they pass it to me and I die, I die. The ongoing disruption of normal life at this point is ridiculous. Like, it's legit insane.

 

On a percentage basis, Covid has always only killed very small amount of people. As we learned more about the disease, that rate declined. And as vaccines rolled out and continue to roll out across the world, that rate has declined further. At this point we are looking at rates well below 1% mortality in fully vaccinated persons. Please don't @ me with "bUt MiLliOnS oF pEopLe." If you want to say that, all you're really saying is that you don't understand percentages and you're bad at math (among other things).

 

At some point during the pandemic, society seems to have collectively decided that its overriding imperative was to prevent Covid cases at all costs. All other considerations be damned. As far as I'm aware that was never debated at any point, and the logic of the premises underpinning that idea never came under scrutiny. Most people aren't even aware that it's a values judgment rather than a fundamental truth or necessity (if you understand this, try and explain it someone and watch their brains contort in any attempt not to process. You might even see it in responses to this post). People were scared, and that made restrictions politically expedient. The result? This single minded obsession with minimizing case counts regardless of the proportionality of measures taken to that effect.

 

At this point we're still seeing panic of single digit deaths per day. In some parts of the world determined to stick to a zero Covid policy, we see mass restrictions over even a single new case. Like, are you serious? Does it not occur to people at any point how absolutely disproportionate measures are now to risk? Many countries (with vaccine saturaiton 70%+!) are still maintaining abnormal measures affecting day to day life, to say nothing of high barriers to international travel. It's unbelievable.

 

How much inconvenience are we going to have to endure before we just nut up and get on with it? Like, if you're a person who genuinely thinks Covid is still a big deal, what specific rate or number would be the threshold at which you would no longer feel that arduous measures were warranted? Have you even thought about it? Because I'm betting you haven't.

 

Ok rant over. I feel less frustrated now. As you were, lads. Carry on.

I understand your rant. A bit. The fallacy in your argument is the unvaccinated are much more likely to spread the virus, get others sick, maybe die, and keep us in this mess longer.  They're in the minority. Man up. Get the jab.

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, Stubby said:

Whatever camp you're in, I think everyone agrees that double-jabbed people who go on to catch COVID are just as infectious as the unjabbed. That's assuming you're up to date with the latest develoments.

The New Norm Is Upon Us, Ain't It?
 

Folks, to curb transmission, everyone—including the fully-vaccinated—should carry on wearing masks, maintain physical distancing, and continue testing. Alas, it seems like this is the new norm until the end of time, or... until something more lethal comes along. 

Human Extinction Is Imminent
 

It seems that humans could be among the first casualties in the earth's current wave of extinctions. And why not? After all, over 99% of the 4 billion species that evolved before us are long gone. Moreover, scientists say that 150-200 species of plant, insect, bird, and mammal become extinct every 24 hours.

And we're no match for Mother Nature, either. Heck, we can't even stop a shower!

Stubby

Misinformation. The vaccinated are much LESS likely to infect others. Where have you been?

[Stubby]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Misinformation. The vaccinated are much LESS likely to infect others. Where have you been?

Fully vaccinated people as likely to spread Delta variant as unvaccinated, a yearlong U.K. study shows.
 

Try to keep up. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Stubby

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, The Cipher said:

At this point we're still seeing panic of single digit deaths per day. In some parts of the world determined to stick to a zero Covid policy, we see mass restrictions over even a single new case. Like, are you serious? Does it not occur to people at any point how absolutely disproportionate measures are now to risk? Many countries (with vaccine saturaiton 70%+!) are still maintaining abnormal measures affecting day to day life, to say nothing of high barriers to international travel. It's unbelievable.

You're assuming the governments were reacting to COVID, and not making a grab to permanently remove their populations freedom to travel using COVID as the excuse.

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

The vax -refuser Minority are now Hardcore Rebels who will NEVER be persuaded by WORDS (Reasonable Logical Scientific). They are an existential threat to Society, like Violent Criminals, who must be convinced / compelled / punished now by ACTION ; meaning LAWS.

Not true.

Directly the Thai government offered me a free (non-Chinese) vaccine with no queues or hoops, I got it. Despite my views that the vaccines were relatively ineffective, and the disease wasn't that much of a risk to me.

Edited October 30, 2021 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

If the person is vaccinated it inhibits them being able to contract coronavirus.  If the person does not have active covid 19 it would seem impossible for them to transmit it to another person.  

So isn't this really saying that vaccines protect you from getting Covid 19 and therefore you can't spread it because you are less likely to ever be infected with it. 

Would point out the 12 fully vaccinated restaurant staff in Hua Hin whom were all infected with COVID would tend to disprove this theory.

[The Cipher]

7 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

I understand your rant. A bit. The fallacy in your argument is the unvaccinated are much more likely to spread the virus, get others sick, maybe die, and keep us in this mess longer.  They're in the minority. Man up. Get the jab.

Yeah sure. Ideally they'd get vaccinated. But if they just don't want to, they just don't want to. I don't see any reason to hold society up for them, it's their choice to make. Why are we being asked to bend over to save people who don't even want the help? If they live, they live. If they die, they die.

 

There's no fallacy, I just bluntly don't think saving every life is the priority that clearly a lot of other people seem to think it is.

[The Cipher]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

You're assuming the governments were reacting to COVID, and not making a grab to permanently remove their populations freedom to travel using COVID as the excuse.

I don't believe in any grand Covid conspiracy theory. The virus is what it is. The news sensationalized it -> causing general populations to panic -> and then governments locked down because pandering to frightened populations create political incentive for opportunistic politicians.

 

A lot of governments (as evidenced by Thailand) are aware that travel needs to normalize at some point. But the residual fear in populations makes that kinda hard in practice.

 

No government wants millions of deaths on their watch because even if that might only be, for example, 0.06% of population, every politician is aware that gen pub is going to focus on the raw number and not the rate. Just look at how hard it's been for me to get anyone on here to think in percentages. Allowing scary-sounding death rate numbers is political suicide for any politician - particularly those facing the ballot box. And I could take this opportunity to eviscerate the sacred cow of democracy, but I'll save that execution for a different time.

 

Anyway I do understand why and how we got into this never-ending mess. But that doesn't mean I have to like it.

[ozimoron]

6 hours ago, Stubby said:

Fully vaccinated people as likely to spread Delta variant as unvaccinated, a yearlong U.K. study shows.
 

Try to keep up. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext

 

 

It does not say that. It says that vaccines reduce the likelihood of infections but only in the case of breakthrough infections (uncommon) are infected people as able to transmit the virus as unvaccinated people. The conclusion is that vaccinated people are less likely to get infected in the first place and therefore less likely to transmit the virus.

 

Quote

Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts.