Opinion: Like our other problems, the key to fixing education system is decentralization

[webfact]

 

By Cod Satrusayang

 

Talk to anyone involved in education in Thailand and they will tell you that the system, as it is, is broken. From high ranking officials within the Ministry of Education to the teachers trying their best in tough situations in the countryside, all will agree that something must change both in terms of policy and material distribution.

 

The kids protesting for education aren’t wrong when they say that the state narrative too often focuses on state myths, adherence to authority, and inside the box thinking. But that is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the country’s education system.

 

Take for example, our multitudes of exams which become make-or-break cram fests for students as they look to get into university. Or take the fact that Thailand does consistently average to below average when it comes to foreign language scores and other education metrics across the region.

 

Full story: https://www.thaienquirer.com/34857/opinion-like-our-other-problems-the-key-to-fixing-education-system-is-decentralization/

 

-- © Copyright Thai Enquirer 2021-11-10

 

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[ikke1959]

The key to fix the education system is abolish the stupid law of always passing. The students are made lazy because they can't fail. This no fail policy has the result that nobody wants to anything in their life .as it continious goes on on for example driverslicense to university degrees...And secondly limit the number of students per class. In many schools there are more than 50 students in a classroom, probably because the school is famous and in rural area's there mixed classes with 15 students grade 4,5,and 6 together...Divide the students, than there is time to really educate students. A teacher doesn't have time to help a student in a class of 50 and a teacher in a mixed class has to divide his attention to 3 levels and that is not good too... Check the work of the students and the teaching by the teachers y national tests... The schools has to swap teachers for that day or days so that cheating will be difficult. I see sometimes that the teachers are given answers of tests to the students because if there are too may students fail the test it seems that they are bad teachers. Yes there is a lot of work to do in education but they will never change anything, because educated students are a thread for the Government and other institutions    

[zzaa09]

Cleansing the system of a traditional, and deeply imprinted, patronage-militarism consciousness might aid in adjusting the works. 

Just the tip of the iceberg - buy ya have to start somewhere. 

 

A systematic ethos and base morality clause might be in order as such applies to the base ideals of education and development. 

 

Encouraging challenging, questioning, critical and independent thought by their curriculum settings, less their everyday lives. 

[Rampant Rabbit]

nah the key is  dumping the culture  per  se

[Will B Good]

Centralized, decentralized, rote learning, free learning........no of that really matters.

 

The key to success is parental understanding of the value of education to their own children.........it is parental pressure on children, teachers and the government that have a serious impact.

 

Case in point.

 

Coastal town schools in the UK are grim; results, behavior, attendance.....all poor. The progress and achievement of Chinese kids in those schools is amazing.

[LivinLOS]

Top down patronage culture where seniority can never be openly questioned, where bad ideas become maintained and propagated.. Which in turn empowers seniority to become entrenched corruption recipients which the juniors must pay into (not only in money, in favors, work, respect). The entire structures of boon khun, greng jai.. The structures of nepotism and deserved right to incomes / benefits/ monopolies and cartels doled out to clan based networks.. 

This cultural format, the very bones, is whats holding the country back from advancement, modernisation, development, skills growth, wage growth, etc etc etc.. 

Its not just in the education.. Though it is there also.. It permeates every facet of the social model. 

 

 

[mtls2005]

"De-centralization"

 

Yeah. good luck with that.

 

Bangkok maintains control if only to get the sweet cream of the skim first.

 

And definitely no innovative localized education initiatives. Sir, stand, cut hair, wear uniform, sing, learn numbers one through ten.

 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

6 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

"De-centralization"

 

Yeah. good luck with that.

 

Bangkok maintains control if only to get the sweet cream of the skim first.

 

And definitely no innovative localized education initiatives. Sir, stand, cut hair, wear uniform, sing, learn numbers one through ten.

 

 

 

 

I agree, decentralization has benefits. 

 

In it's own way encourages local discussion. With centralization only happens at a national level and therefore education folks close to the classroom not involved in any discussions.

 

Further, when it's centralized there's more limits on the total time spent on discussion.

 

Further, full centralization kills innovation, trying new methods etc., at a local level (in a school) nobody would dare.

 

The senior beaurocrats in the centralized system in Thailand believe they are world experts and therefore no need for discussion about improvements etc.

 

Further, where there's local innovation and it produces something valuable the neighboring schools are more likely to try it, all building improvements.

 

and more...

[dinsdale]

In no particular order: Remove corruption from the system. The education budget I believe is the largest but sooooo many pockets get filled that very little is left to spend on educating the kids. Student centred learning. No automatic passes for those not diagnosed as having learning difficulties (or as the Thai's say the special students). Bring all public schools into the 21st C. Recriut more teachers. Increase wages. Limit class sizes. Scouts should not be a lesson (this is simply a military drafting exersise). Student learning is more important than how the school looks. Schools run as centres of learning first rather than a business first. Do not adopt an American decentralized system. The system here has multiple levels as it is. This is not the problem. Update the Basic Education Core Curriculum to reflect the 21st C teaching methodology. I could go on but what's the point.

Edited November 10, 2021 by dinsdale

[blackprince]

Local initiatives are very important of course and should be encouraged.

But the curriculum should remain national otherwise chaos increases.

That's not to say the the curriculum can't be improved ????

[dinsdale]

6 minutes ago, blackprince said:

Local initiatives are very important of course and should be encouraged.

But the curriculum should remain national otherwise chaos increases.

That's not to say the the curriculum can't be improved ????

Fed Govt. Provincial authorities. Local authorities. Schools. Schools must satify the directives of the aforementioned. The curriculum can be developed at school level as long as it does this.

Edited November 10, 2021 by dinsdale

[mtls2005]

Beating the "three pillars" into the populace must begin at an early age.

 

This is the single, primary and sole focus of the thai edumaction system.

 

There will be no free-thinking, no asking questions and if students learn one thing it must be to respect Authority.

 

Prayut Chan-o-cha’s 12 values of education:

1. Loyalty to the Nation, the Religion, and the Monarchy.
2. Honesty, sacrifice, endurance, and noble ideology for the greater good.
3. Gratitude for parents, guardians, and teachers.
4. Diligence in acquiring knowledge, via school studies and other methods.
5. Preserving the Thai customs and tradition.
6. Morality and good will toward others.
7. Correct understanding of democracy with the King as Head of State.
8. Discipline, respect for law, and obedience to the older citizens.
9. Constant consciousness to practice good deeds all the time, as taught by His Majesty the King.
10. Practice of Self-Sufficient Economy in accordance with the teaching of His Majesty the King.
11. Physical and mental strength. Refusal to surrender to religious sins.
12. Uphold the interest of the nation over oneself.

 

 

Not a lot of focus on "learning".

 

 

 

[blackprince]

8 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Fed Govt. Provincial authorities. Local authorities. Schools. Schools must satify the directives of the aforementioned. The curriculum can be developed at school level as long as it does this.

In Thailand the curriculum is national, and in practice government schools use books mandated by the Ministry of Education.

 

In my native UK there has been some devolution of the curriculum and its effects have not been good. It also makes national exams for university entrance very difficult.

[dinsdale]

10 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Beating the "three pillars" into the populace must begin at an early age.

 

This is the single, primary and sole focus of the thai edumaction system.

 

There will be no free-thinking, no asking questions and if students learn one thing it must be to respect Authority.

 

Prayut Chan-o-cha’s 12 values of education:

1. Loyalty to the Nation, the Religion, and the Monarchy.
2. Honesty, sacrifice, endurance, and noble ideology for the greater good.
3. Gratitude for parents, guardians, and teachers.
4. Diligence in acquiring knowledge, via school studies and other methods.
5. Preserving the Thai customs and tradition.
6. Morality and good will toward others.
7. Correct understanding of democracy with the King as Head of State.
8. Discipline, respect for law, and obedience to the older citizens.
9. Constant consciousness to practice good deeds all the time, as taught by His Majesty the King.
10. Practice of Self-Sufficient Economy in accordance with the teaching of His Majesty the King.
11. Physical and mental strength. Refusal to surrender to religious sins.
12. Uphold the interest of the nation over oneself.

 

 

Not a lot of focus on "learning".

 

 

 

Spot on with the three pillars and 12 values. Sometimes I draw a blank map of Thailand on the board (no 21st C tech in my classrooms) and get students to mark where particular places are. It's horrific. 

[dinsdale]

18 minutes ago, blackprince said:

In Thailand the curriculum is national, and in practice government schools use books mandated by the Ministry of Education.

 

In my native UK there has been some devolution of the curriculum and its effects have not been good. It also makes national exams for university entrance very difficult.

I'm sorry but this isn't entirely the case. There may be a list of choices I don't know but I do know different schools use different books for teaching English. As long as it satifies the needs of the core curriculum and local curriculum. As for national exams they are always difficult and problematic. Do you teach kids to learn or do you teach to the test. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by dinsdale

[blackprince]

7 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

I'm sorry but this isn't entirely the case. There may be a list of choices I don't know but I do know different schools use different books for teaching English. As for national exams they are always difficult and problematic. Do you teach kids to learn or do you teach to the test.

You're right, there is a Ministry of Education list of books for each subject and grade, so the government schools do have some leeway over which books to select from the MoE list. The books are supposed to follow the MoE curriculum.

 

"Do you teach kids to learn or do you teach to the test." The perennial question! Personally I don't necessarily see a conflict between those 2 goals. Test technique is an important skill in its own right, but I would put that in the category of training rather than education.

 

In the UK there was a shift towards student-centred learning a few decades ago. I've always found this concept to be  problematic, after all there is a huge variety of student types, abilities, interests and learning styles. Following this initiative there was a massive decrease in literacy and numeracy in the UK, but given the huge societal change in that period it's hard to assign causality very specifically.

[Rampant Rabbit]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Top down patronage culture where seniority can never be openly questioned, where bad ideas become maintained and propagated.. Which in turn empowers seniority to become entrenched corruption recipients which the juniors must pay into (not only in money, in favors, work, respect). The entire structures of boon khun, greng jai.. The structures of nepotism and deserved right to incomes / benefits/ monopolies and cartels doled out to clan based networks.. 

This cultural format, the very bones, is whats holding the country back from advancement, modernisation, development, skills growth, wage growth, etc etc etc.. 

Its not just in the education.. Though it is there also.. It permeates every facet of the social model. 

 

 

as  i said, the entire  cuture

[Will B Good]

Just now, blackprince said:

 

 

In the UK there was a shift towards student-centred learning a few decades ago. I've always found this concept to be  problematic, after all there is a huge variety of student types, abilities, interests and learning styles. Following this initiative there was a massive decrease in literacy and numeracy in the UK, but given the huge societal change in that period it's hard to assign causality very specifically.

Works really well with one proviso.......you have to have students who actually want to learn.

 

In 25 years, with average class sizes of about 25, I can only recall a dozens kids who genuinely wanted to learn and were be capable of making progress in a student centered setup.

[mtls2005]

22 minutes ago, blackprince said:

"Do you teach kids to learn or do you teach to the test."

Here?

 

Neither.

 

 

They are taught to obey, respect and prostrate.

 

Any "learning" is accidental.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by mtls2005

[Will B Good]

23 minutes ago, blackprince said:

"Do you teach kids to learn or do you teach to the test."

In a UK state school you have little choice, certainly when it comes to those subjects that really 'count'.....Mathematics and English.........your job and mental health depend on 'your' results.

[blackprince]

28 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

In a UK state school you have little choice, certainly when it comes to those subjects that really 'count'.....Mathematics and English.........your job and mental health depend on 'your' results.

The deregulation of UK schools over the last few decades has been massive as I'm sure you know.

 

Add to that the ongoing ministerial furores over what should or shouldn't be in the curriculum and threatening teachers with litigation.

 

I don't envy teachers or students in the UK school system these days.

 

And as for the university situation... don't get me started!

 

 

 

 

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, blackprince said:

The deregulation of UK schools over the last few decades has been massive as I'm sure you know.

 

Add to that the ongoing ministerial furores over what should or shouldn't be in the curriculum and threatening teachers with litigation.

 

I don't envy teachers or students in the UK school system these days.

 

And as for the university situation... don't get me started!

 

 

 

 

Absolutely......fortunately I am out of it now, but I keep in touch with few of the "younger" teachers still in state schools and academies.........I know teachers get stick for complaining......but their lives are not happy ones. 

 

A few have got out, much to the detriment of the system.......but schools are now set up to have a steady stream of young, wet behind the ears graduates that keep the salary bill down until they see the light, leave and are replaced by new graduates.

 

(It is annoying how the government use the "average salary of teacher" scam.)

[dinsdale]

2 hours ago, blackprince said:

You're right, there is a Ministry of Education list of books for each subject and grade, so the government schools do have some leeway over which books to select from the MoE list. The books are supposed to follow the MoE curriculum.

 

"Do you teach kids to learn or do you teach to the test." The perennial question! Personally I don't necessarily see a conflict between those 2 goals. Test technique is an important skill in its own right, but I would put that in the category of training rather than education.

 

In the UK there was a shift towards student-centred learning a few decades ago. I've always found this concept to be  problematic, after all there is a huge variety of student types, abilities, interests and learning styles. Following this initiative there was a massive decrease in literacy and numeracy in the UK, but given the huge societal change in that period it's hard to assign causality very specifically.

There needs to be a mix between the two. My grammar is self taught because I wasn't taught it at school. I listen to and watch English speaking news from various western sources and the grammar isn't good.

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

Absolutely......fortunately I am out of it now, but I keep in touch with few of the "younger" teachers still in state schools and academies.........I know teachers get stick for complaining......but their lives are not happy ones. 

 

A few have got out, much to the detriment of the system.......but schools are now set up to have a steady stream of young, wet behind the ears graduates that keep the salary bill down until they see the light, leave and are replaced by new graduates.

 

(It is annoying how the government use the "average salary of teacher" scam.)

I agree entirely but for one thing. Are we talking qualified NES teachers or backpackers (obviously haven't been around for a while) and cheaper non-NES teachers? Big money is allocated for foreign teachers and lots of this ends up in the pockets of others. Pure corruption.

[klauskunkel]

Quote

Like our other problems, the key to fixing education system is decentralization

and the key to allow decentralization is to remove the guy at the center of things

[hotchilli]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

The kids protesting for education aren’t wrong when they say that the state narrative too often focuses on state myths, adherence to authority, and inside the box thinking. But that is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the country’s education system.

That's all they have to provide for the future worker slaves.

The elite send their kids ti academies and international schools to continue the upper class legacies and monopolies.

[blackprince]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

There needs to be a mix between the two. My grammar is self taught because I wasn't taught it at school. I listen to and watch English speaking news from various western sources and the grammar isn't good.

Yes some of the news grammar is weird, and not just because it's shortened in the tradiotinal way that's acceptable for news (headlines at least).

 

Even worse for non-native speakers is the BBC TV international service which seems to be following the BBC national service by employing news readers with regional UK accents. While I as a native enjoy regional accents, it does defeat the purpose of a world service to make it unintelligible to many viewers.

 

For clarity of diction and grammar I've come to prefer Channel News Asia.

 

Grammar does change of course, especially English grammar because everyone's using it now, but there's still a difference between legitimate variants and mistakes. And while mistakes are expected in social media for many reasons, they're bit much from "professionals". Ok rant over!

 

 

 

[mtls2005]

New Thai education law will kill kids’ creativity, warn critics

 

Two key education bills have sailed through the first reading in the House of Representatives, despite warnings that both will seriously damage the quality of Thai education.

 

Among those worried is prominent educator Dr Sompong Jitradub, who says the National Educational Bill and the Learning Promotion Bill are “outdated” and do not represent much-needed educational reform.

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/new-thai-education-law-will-kill-kids-creativity-warn-critics/