SURVEY: Omicron--Dangerous, Worrisome or Overblown?

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s meaningless.

 

In the first instance many people are not lean and fit and in the second ‘lean and fit’ people have been killed or had their health stripped from them by this wretched disease.

 

The fight against this disease is a global effort of national public health policy responses, it’s a fight for everyone, fit or not fit, slim or not slim, healthy or not healthy, young or not young.

 

Apologies that it’s a fight that might impinge on you personally, mark up your suffering for the greater good.

Is it really meaningless?

 

Many people are not vaccinated, but we don't render a debate on vaccines pointless because of it!

 

And underlying health is a big factor in disease severity.  Lots of people in my home country overweight and even obese.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/17/2021 at 1:33 PM, Crossy said:

From the Daily Wail, Omicron really looks like a heavy cold!

 

 

I have suffered all those in the top row, except headache,  for years due to hayfever. At least with the lower row, loss of taste and smell was an actual indicator of covid.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

Is it really meaningless?

 

Many people are not vaccinated, but we don't render a debate on vaccines pointless because of it!

 

And underlying health is a big factor in disease severity.  Lots of people in my home country overweight and even obese.

 

I don’t doubt lots of people in your country are overweight or even obese, but I’m also quite certain that your Government is enacting a public health policy that aims to fight this disease for everyone, regardless of their personal under lying health.

 

The clue is in ‘government’ and ‘public health policy’.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have suffered all those in the top row, except headache,  for years due to hayfever. At least with the lower row, loss of taste and smell was an actual indicator of covid.

You do realize that many diseases share common symptoms don’t you?!

[mommysboy]

49 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t doubt lots of people in your country are overweight or even obese, but I’m also quite certain that your Government is enacting a public health policy that aims to fight this disease for everyone, regardless of their personal under lying health.

 

The clue is in ‘government’ and ‘public health policy’.

I don't see how you deduced so much from one fairly innocent and interesting poser. You seemed to have taken it as an attack on public health policies for instance, or an argument against being responsible to others.

 

Each of us as individuals needs to assess our likely risk to covid19.  In terms of age and underlying health issues that's fairly easy to do, but not so when it comes to fitness, and frame. 

 

I have tried to find out from the many doctors I know.  They go a bit coy frankly.  It's just that when I see pictures of those who have died very frequently the younger ones appear rather overweight.  I'm not for one moment saying health and fitness is a guarantee but it must count for something and exercise is something we can and should care about imo.

Edited December 19, 2021 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

49 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You do realize that many diseases share common symptoms don’t you?!

That's the point he was in fact making as far as I can tell. 

 

It's the loss of smell for instance that might've allowed him to distinguish covid from an allergy.

 

Allergies are a real pain.  Not for you I guess.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

I don't see how you deduced so much from one fairly innocent and interesting poser. You seemed to have taken it as an attack on public health policies for instance, or an argument against being responsible to others.

 

Each of us as individuals needs to assess our likely risk to covid19.  In terms of age and underlying health issues that's fairly easy to do, but not so when it comes to fitness, and frame. 

 

I have tried to find out from the many doctors I know.  They go a bit coy frankly.  It's just that when I see pictures of those who have died very frequently the younger ones appear rather overweight.  I'm not for one moment saying health and fitness is a guarantee but it must count for something and exercise is something we can and should care about imo.

You should start a thread on the causes of obesity.

[Chomper Higgot]

When a patient is admitted to hospital their medical record is marked with the cause of their admission.

 

ie COVID infection requiring admission.

 

If they are lucky or they get better, if they are unlucky they die (unvaccinated people are dramatically more likely to die).

 

The causes of death are usually various forms of lung failure, heart failure, kidney failure, stroke, 

blood clots.

 

The cause of death might be lung failure but the underlying  cause is COVID.

 

So someone does of  lung failure, blood clot, stroke the cause of death is (cause with COVID).

 

Not difficult to understand but far too easy, for some, to misrepresent.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Chomper Higgot

[metisdead]

A post with a misleading link has been removed as well as the related bickering posts:

 

15) Any links posted must lead to the website the link indicates. Links that are misleading or direct to a site different than the one indicated are not allowed. No shortened version urls or affiliate links permitted.

[Bkk Brian]

30 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

When a patient is admitted to hospital their medical record is marked with the cause of their admission.

 

ie COVID infection requiring admission.

 

If they are lucky or they get better, if they are unlucky they die (unvaccinated people are dramatically more likely to die).

 

The causes of death are usually various forms of lung failure, heart failure, kidney failure, stroke, 

blood clots.

 

The cause of death might be lung failure but the underlying  cause is COVID.

 

So someone does of  lung failure, blood clot, stroke the cause of death is (cause with COVID).

 

Not difficult to understand but far too easy, for some, to misrepresent.

Just for clarity, 7 official UK Omicron deaths so far reported

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1042221/20211218_OS_Daily-Omicron-Overview.pdf

[Kadilo]

Javid sent out this morning to do the media rounds and getting mailed on both Sky and Marr. He’s in a no win situation as he’s already written in the Telegraph today that it “may already be too late” to bring in further restrictions. 
 

He’s trying to defend an impossible position as they are being informed by SAGE that further restrictions are needed now, before Xmas, but due to political paralysis and fear of another backlash from their own party they are dragging their heels with a pretty ineffective, useless Plan B. Apparently he knows more than SAGE, 

“Javid says while the advice from Sage is good, his job as health secretary is to challenge and question that advice and its underlying assumptions.”

"I don't think it would be appropriate for government to take it verbatim," he says.

 

Added to that a senior Tory and previous staunch ally, Lord Frost resigned overnight partly due to their ineffective handling and introducing Covid passports. 

Any future restrictions have to be taken back to Parliament for ratifying so it seems they are dragging their heels trying to postpone till after Xmas to keep his rebels happy. 
 

As a recap, yesterday’s numbers in UK were just over 90, 000 new Covid cases reported on Saturday in UK, off the record high of yesterday by around d 3,000

 

Number of deaths with Covid reported at 125, down slightly from a week ago. 
 

Now 7 reported deaths with Omicron. Despite numerous requests the government have still to confirm the details from the first reported death some 6 days ago, despite a report from a LBC phone in saying it was an unvaccinated male in his 70’s. 
 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Kadilo

[coolcarer]

17 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Javid sent out this morning to do the media rounds and getting mailed on both Sky and Marr. He’s in a no win situation as he’s already written in the Telegraph today that it “may already be too late” to bring in further restrictions. 
 

He’s trying to defend an impossible position as they are being informed by SAGE that further restrictions are needed now, before Xmas, but due to political paralysis and fear of another backlash from their own party they are dragging their heels with a pretty ineffective, useless Plan B. Apparently he knows more than SAGE, 

“Javid says while the advice from Sage is good, his job as health secretary is to challenge and question that advice and its underlying assumptions.”

"I don't think it would be appropriate for government to take it verbatim," he says.

 

Added to that a senior Tory and previous staunch ally, Lord Frost resigned overnight partly due to their ineffective handling and introducing Covid passports. 

Any future restrictions have to be taken back to Parliament for ratifying so it seems they are dragging their heels trying to postpone till after Xmas to keep his rebels happy. 
 

As a recap, yesterday’s numbers in UK were just over 90, 000 new Covid cases reported on Saturday in UK, off the record high of yesterday by around d 3,000

 

Number of deaths with Covid reported at 125, down slightly from a week ago. 
 

Now 7 reported deaths with Omicron. Despite numerous requests the government have still to confirm the details from the first reported death some 6 days ago, despite a report from a LBC phone in saying it was an unvaccinated male in his 70’s. 
 

 

When it’s 100 deaths, or 1000 are you still going to be holding on to that same, oh but they do not give us the details for the first death but it’s ok an LBC radio show had a caller that claimed he knew he was 70 years old and unvaccinated. 
 

Well if true then all the more weight that he did in fact die as a direct result of Omicron, it ties in with statistics from South Africa.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, Iman698 said:

Agree. Some people, however, think that c19 is the only virus in this world, and once they get a vaccine, everything will become nice.

 

But if one requires a vaccine in order to overcome c19, one ALREADY HAS underlying, serious, health problems, and possible c19 infection will be the least important among all, even if one recovers.

 

 

Nobody is arguing COVID is the only virus and I don’t recall anyone stating that upon getting a vaccine ‘everything will become nice’.

 

People live with ‘underlying’ health conditions for years, decades even.

 

COVID has killed people with no underlying health conditions. Including people who are not overweight, exercise regularly and follow a healthy diet.

 

The current critical public health treat is COVID.

 

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, Iman698 said:

Agree. Some people, however, think that c19 is the only virus in this world, and once they get a vaccine, everything will become nice.

 

But if one requires a vaccine in order to overcome c19, one ALREADY HAS underlying, serious, health problems, and possible c19 infection will be the least important among all, even if one recovers.

 

 

Nope.

 

Even healthy young people need the vaccine, because of the problem of death from Covid.

[Bkk Brian]

15 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Just for clarity, 7 official UK Omicron deaths so far reported

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1042221/20211218_OS_Daily-Omicron-Overview.pdf

Another 5 official Omicron deaths just reported in the UK bringing the total to 12 so far source pdf download from UK Health Security Agency

[fjb 24]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Nope.

 

Even healthy young people need the vaccine, because of the problem of death from Covid.

If your comment is about young people in America, more young people die from suicide (7x the rate of covid deaths in 5-14 age group) and fentanyl poisoning (age 18-45 group) than covid. Although they contract covid severe illness the death rates are low and in other locations with omicron, covid symptoms are mild with low CFR in children.

Edited December 20, 2021 by fjb 24

[fjb 24]

Omicron is not a variant of concern based on it's severity, at least not in SA

• "MAC says the tracing and quarantining of contacts of Covid-19 cases is no longer necessary.
• In a memo to Health Minister Joe Phaahla, it said the proportion of people with immunity to Covid-19 had risen substantially.
• It added that quarantining of contacts was no longer viable in the current social and economic climate."

The scientists advising the government of South Africa - where Omicron is now the dominant strain - say tracing and quarantining the contacts of infected people is a waste of time.

This level-headed advice is exactly the opposite of the panic in wealthy European countries (and certain blue states).

Of course - unlike America & wealthy European countries - SA has tens of millions of extremely poor people. It can no longer afford to engage in viral theater to satisfy public health fanatics over a strain that looks more and more like a cold.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, fjb 24 said:

Omicron is not a variant of concern based on it's severity, at least not in SA

• "MAC says the tracing and quarantining of contacts of Covid-19 cases is no longer necessary.
• In a memo to Health Minister Joe Phaahla, it said the proportion of people with immunity to Covid-19 had risen substantially.
• It added that quarantining of contacts was no longer viable in the current social and economic climate."

The scientists advising the government of South Africa - where Omicron is now the dominant strain - say tracing and quarantining the contacts of infected people is a waste of time.

This level-headed advice is exactly the opposite of the panic in wealthy European countries (and certain blue states).

Of course - unlike America & wealthy European countries - SA has tens of millions of extremely poor people. It can no longer afford to engage in viral theater to satisfy public health fanatics over a strain that looks more and more like a cold.

The report does not say Omicron is not a variant of concern.

[Chomper Higgot]

31 minutes ago, fjb 24 said:

If your comment is about young people in America, more young people die from suicide (7x the rate of covid deaths in 5-14 age group) and fentanyl poisoning (age 18-45 group) than covid. Although they contract covid severe illness the death rates are low and in other locations with omicron, covid symptoms are mild with low CFR in children.

Let’s see if you grasp this:

 

COVID deaths and illnesses are in addition to all other causes of deaths and illness.

 

The existence of these other causes has no bearing on the risks COVID presents.

[fjb 24]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The report does not say Omicron is not a variant of concern.

No, I said that, it's my OPINION.

Hope that's ok.

 

[fjb 24]

22 hours ago, Virt said:

They have no clue how many cases of omicron that is in their countries with so few daily tests

Check this, is this a chart showing hospitalizations of vaxxed and unvaxxed? I don't see the data presented in Eng.

Thanks for your assistance.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, fjb 24 said:

No, I said that, it's my OPINION.

Hope that's ok.

 

It’s an opinion that is not supported by the article you linked, AKA an unsubstantiated opinion, ok.

[Danderman123]

49 minutes ago, fjb 24 said:

If your comment is about young people in America, more young people die from suicide (7x the rate of covid deaths in 5-14 age group) and fentanyl poisoning (age 18-45 group) than covid. Although they contract covid severe illness the death rates are low and in other locations with omicron, covid symptoms are mild with low CFR in children.

Do we really need to go over this again? 

 

Covid is generally spread by asymptomatic carriers, many of whom are young. Vaccinate the carriers, and the spread stops. 

[fjb 24]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You should start a thread on this off topic stuff.

If I did, think of all the interest it would attract. It's obvious my presence increases's the forum interest and popularity.

[Danderman123]

52 minutes ago, fjb 24 said:

If your comment is about young people in America, more young people die from suicide (7x the rate of covid deaths in 5-14 age group) and fentanyl poisoning (age 18-45 group) than covid. Although they contract covid severe illness the death rates are low and in other locations with omicron, covid symptoms are mild with low CFR in children.

So if someone is accused of murder, you would let them off, because so many people die from other causes? 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, fjb 24 said:

If I did, think of all the interest it would attract. It's obvious my presence increases's the forum interest and popularity.

Judging by the only person who has given you a like, I truly doubt that

[fjb 24]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

So if someone is accused of murder, you would let them off, because so many people die from other causes? 

No, but some would, liberal prosecutors likely.

[mommysboy]

This is very interesting:

 

It suggests the way to go for most healthy individuals is double vax, plus actual covid infection.

 

Note: bug chasing would not be clever.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10326639/People-COVID-fully-vaccinated-super-immunity-antibodies-2-000.html

[fjb 24]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Judging by the only person who has given you a like, I truly doubt that

Too bad, BUT the reality is you just don't like the factual data, figures, charts, evidence, etc that goes against your ideology, that you really hate so much. I know this, it's human nature. Serious character flaw to be so full of hate.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Another 5 official Omicron deaths just reported in the UK bringing the total to 12 so far source pdf download from UK Health Security Agency

Death WITH, or FROM?

Underlying health problems, obese, smoke, use drugs etc etc etc.

Not enough info as yet, and will we ever know the truth?