US$ to Thai ฿. Thai banks and Schwab Visa

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

So I have CC from Penfed CU that has no foreign transaction fee and no cash advance fee.

So I would go in to a Thai bank and get a cash advance, then pay off immediately,

Does it have to be a Thai bank where I have an account?

 

 

Yes! hehehehehe... The card you cited is one CU that used to offer a couple credit cards with those features.... I promise! So some members here have used those cards in exactly that way here in the past.

 

Re your other question no, doing the cash advance transaction shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not you have an account at a particular Thai bank.

 

But as with all things Thai banking related, YMMV based on what the local bank staff think they're allowed to do and/or what they know how to do.

 

Also, best to confirm the Thai bank isn't going to charge you any fee of their own for doing the advance.  I seem to remember in the past I think it was SCB that might have begun charging their own fee for card cash advances.

 

[Pib]

It not uncommon for Thai banks to now charge a foreign card counter withdrawal fee....usually around Bt200....and it can depend on whether it's a Visa, Mastercard, AmEx, etc., like where the fee might be charged for a Visa card but not a Mastercard (or vice versa).    But even with a Bt200 fee is still a good deal with a no foreign transaction fee/no other fee card....and you immediately get money in hand.

 

For example, Krungsri will charge a Bt200 counter withdrawal fee if using a foreign "Visa"debit/credit card, but no charge for a foreign Mastercard debit/credit card.   See snapshot below from their fee schedule.  Plus I use Krungsri for my counter withdrawals....I use a Mastercard logo card and no fee has ever been charged.  Sometimes when I go ask for a counter withdrawal (but I say cash advance since asking for a counter withdrawal frequently draws a Deer-in-the-headlights" look) the Krungsri rep says there may be a fee (the rep knows there is some kind of fee for some cards), but when starting the transaction in their IT system the rep sees no fee is applicable when using a Mastercard.  But if a rep would ever "attempt" to charge a fee when using my Mastercard I'm always ready to point out what their fee schedule says....but I've never had to do that.

 

https://www.krungsri.com/en/rates/fees/service

 

 

Now, it been a couple of years since I used Bangkok Bank for a counter withdrawal because I switched to using a closer Krungsri branch, but when I was using Bangkok Bank for my counter withdrawals using Visa and Mastercard cards, there was no fee---but I don't know about current day.  Bangkok Bank only published its fee schedules in Thai language so that makes it very hard for me to check/review.

 

Also, some banks may say they will only do a counter withdrawal using DCC, and I think SCB is that way.....but Bangkok Bank and Krungsri don't play that DCC ripoff game for counter withdrawals.   DO NOT do a counter withdrawal if the bank uses DCC as that means you get approx 3% less (or maybe even a significantly higher percentage maybe even up around 5.9%) baht because that 3% is hidden fee in the form of the bank's lower exchange rate since they are not using the higher Visa/Mastercard exchange rate.   Whether DCC is being used for a counter or ATM withdrawal, it's a bad deal for the customer (gets less baht), but a great deal for the bank (profit).

 

Also, with any credit card withdrawals like if using a PenFed credit card which does not charge a foreign transaction fee "or cash advance fee" (but does start charging interest from date of transaction) be sure to know what your cash advance limit is as it "may" be a subset/lower amount than your total line of credit.  Your total line of credit for a card may be $10,000 just for example but you cash advance limit as a portion of that total $10,000 and may be only $2,000, $3000, $5000, ?????, etc., with a per transaction/day limit.  Or, a bank may allow you cash balance limit to equal the total line of credit.   Limits vary from bank to bank/card to card.  Below are what the PenFed daily cash advance limits were back in 2017 when I asked....today in 2022, I don't know what they are....maybe the same...maybe different....these were the daily limit's.....a person's total cash advance balance could be much higher.     So, know your credit card cash advance limits (per day, per transaction, total balance) before attempting a cash advance because it's probably "not" your credit card's total line of credit....it may be a  significantly lower amount.....around 20 to 35% is common for some banks/cards if a set/specific limit is not used while other banks/cards allow much higher.  Yeap, varies from bank to bank/card to card.

 

Partial quote of PenFed credit card cash advance limits back in 2017

Quote

 

A member may do a cash advance withdraw up to $1,000 per day from a ATM.

A member may withdraw up to $2,000 per day from a financial institution.

 

 A person should be able to do a cash advance at Thai bank regardless of having an account with that bank or not.   Banks earn a nice fee for doing cash advances "even when they do not charge you an upfront fee" because the way cash advances or ATM withdrawals work is the bank dishing out the money (like the Thai bank) earns an "interchange fee" from your home country card-issuing bank (like PenFed, Cap1, Barclays, just whoever)....this interchange fee is purely between the two banks; it's basically the reverse of the interchange fee when "product/services purchases" are made as the card-issuing bank earns an interchange fee.

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Pib

[mtls2005]

4 hours ago, cdemundo said:

So I have CC from Penfed CU that has no foreign transaction fee and no cash advance fee.

PenFed Power Cash Rewards Visa® Card?

 

https://www.penfed.org/content/dam/penfed/general/pdf/creditcardpdfs/summary-terms/current/summary-of-terms-vcr-00.pdf

 

How to Avoid Paying Interest on Purchases

 

Your due date is at least 25 days after the close of each billing cycle. We will not charge you interest on purchases if you
pay your entire account balance, including balance transfers and cash advances, by the due date each month. We will begin
charging interest on cash advances and balance transfers on the transaction date.

 

 

 

And for those who may wonder: No cash back or points for cash advances.

 

 

 

 

[gamb00ler]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Now, it been a couple of years since I used Bangkok Bank for a counter withdrawal because I switched to using a closer Krungsri branch, but when I was using Bangkok Bank for my counter withdrawals using Visa and Mastercard cards, there was no fee---but I don't know about current day

Recently, I've done both MC and Visa "cash advances" using debit cards at Bangkok Bank and there is no fee for either flavor.  To make the banker "feel better" I deposit the withdrawal into my savings account with them.

 

Since I'll be at the bank for another purpose, I'll be doing another cash advance today as it seems the rally in the US$ vs THB is losing steam.

 

[gamb00ler]

Today I did simultaneous MC and Visa "cash advances" on my debit cards.  As expected the rates precisely match those on the respective websites.

MC gave 34.3322 and Visa gave 34.287 ฿ per US$.

[zeekgarcia]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:51 PM, gamb00ler said:

 

I think you can open an International account with Schwab using a Thai address.  I do think they have a minimum balance requirement of 10K $USD.  But I heard that a long time ago so it could be outdated.  The Schwab website is substantial and will likely answer your questions better than I.

 

I have a US based brokerage account so the limits I give may be specific to it.

The limit for ATM withdrawal is $500 per withdrawal.  There are more limits such as per day but I didn't record them.  The limit for withdrawal at the bank counter is 15K $US per day.  There is no foreign transaction fee and all ATM fees are reimbursed at the time the transaction is processed.

 

Personally I maintain a mailing address in USA that I use for Schwab and other institutions.

What schwab US account do you have because the US  High Yield Investor Checking atm limit is $1000 and the over the counter/cash advance limit is $1000 unless you contact them and get them to raise it in which they ask for what purpose.

Edited May 6, 2022 by zeekgarcia

[zeekgarcia]

On 12/28/2021 at 8:29 AM, mtls2005 said:

OK, thanks for the follow up.

 

Visa Cash Advance does give a better rate than WISE in addition to being fee-free, and a similar transaction ($15,000) today would net ~ 8,000 THB more. A significant amount. Definitely the way to go assuming the branch can do it.

 

My Fidelity ATM Debit Card is limited to $2,500 for a "Teller Advance". ????

 

Unless Fidelity change they also charge a 1% fee for teller advance but not for atm withdraw.

[gamb00ler]

12 minutes ago, zeekgarcia said:

What schwab US account do you have because the US  High Yield Investor Checking atm limit is $1000 and the over the counter/cash advance limit is $1000 unless you contact them and get them to raise it in which they ask for what purpose.

I only have a brokerage account at Schwab.  Initially the debit card that is attached to a brokerage account has a $500 daily ATM withdrawal limit.  That limit can be raised by Schwab.

[JimmyJ]

On 4/27/2022 at 5:29 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The list of available really NO fee accounts to use abroad really isn't that long these days....  Schwab, Fidelity and Capital One among them.

 

 

Betterment.

Available to all.

 

No FCF/FTF, unlimited foreign ATM reimbursement, no minimum acc't. balance, no monthly account fee.

Edited May 6, 2022 by JimmyJ

[JimmyJ]

Every Capital One credit card has no FTF including their No Annual Fee cards.

[JimmyJ]

On 4/28/2022 at 12:22 PM, gamb00ler said:

When the US$ is rising, those rates that adjust several times during the day can often exceed the Visa and MC rates which are set early AM Thai time and stay fixed for 24 hours.  The converse is true for a falling US$ and I sometimes use that fact to use to secure the short term local maxima for a conversion.

"...the Visa and MC rates which are set early AM Thai time and stay fixed for 24 hours."

 

Mind boggling - I never realized this but always assumed it follows the currency up and down all day.

 

At what time in the Thai early AM do the rates change for MC and Visa?

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by JimmyJ

[JimmyJ]

Using links provided in this thread, for today I'm seeing a USD to THB rate of 34.4145  for MC and 33.966033 for Visa!!!

 

Unfortunately, both of my foreign ATM fees refunded cards are Visas!

Edited May 6, 2022 by JimmyJ

[gamb00ler]

10 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Using links provided in this thread, for today I'm seeing a USD to THB rate of 34.4145  for MC and 33.966033 for Visa!!!

 

Unfortunately, both of my foreign ATM fees refunded cards are Visas!

You don't have the correct rate for MC.  On the Mastercard exchange rate page, you must select THB as the "From" currency and USD as the "To" currency.  When you do that the page will display the conversion rate as 0.0294243 US$ per THB.  If you withdraw 100,000฿ at the teller in Thailand, your US bank will withdraw $2,942.43 from your account.  To see how many Thai ฿ per dollar, calculate 100000/2942.43 which is 33.9855.  As is almost always the case the Visa and Mastercard rates are very close.  I have verified this method using multiple "cash advances" using a Mastercard debit card.

[JimmyJ]

10 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

You don't have the correct rate for MC.  On the Mastercard exchange rate page, you must select THB as the "From" currency and USD as the "To" currency.  When you do that the page will display the conversion rate as 0.0294243 US$ per THB.  If you withdraw 100,000฿ at the teller in Thailand, your US bank will withdraw $2,942.43 from your account.  To see how many Thai ฿ per dollar, calculate 100000/2942.43 which is 33.9855.  As is almost always the case the Visa and Mastercard rates are very close.  I have verified this method using multiple "cash advances" using a Mastercard debit card.

So watching the changing rates during the day is pointless?

 

My Currency Converter app shows 1 USD = 34.377491 THB currently.

 

How do Currency Exchange traders make their Buys/Sells to take advantage of moves during the day?

I suppose Foreign Currency Trading Exchanges?

 

[Jotnar]

10 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

So watching the changing rates during the day is pointless?

 

My Currency Converter app shows 1 USD = 34.377491 THB currently.

 

How do Currency Exchange traders make their Buys/Sells to take advantage of moves during the day?

I suppose Foreign Currency Trading Exchanges?

 

Are you asking as an investor, or simply trying to track the exchange rate ?  Exchange rate, rare fluctuate enough in 1 or 2 days to bother, for either.  Unless buying/selling huge amount of options, as an investor. 

 

As an invertor, they buy & sell (forex) currency options, puts or call on future rates.  Since you are asking, I'd stay clear of, until you have a lot more experience investing.

[gamb00ler]

22 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

So watching the changing rates during the day is pointless?

Visa exchange rate is set at 7AM Thai time and I think Mastercard at 3AM.  Once set they are unchanged until the next business day.  I'm not sure if rates are updated on Saturdays.

 

If you want easily accessible exchange rate info check out the Wise site and also the Superrich sites which are updated during the business day in Thailand.

https://wise.com/

https://www.superrichthailand.com/#!/en/exchange#rate-section

[JimmyJ]

Super Rich currently 34.29.

 

But I have no USD in hand.

 

So whether I use an ATM or do a  counter transaction, apparently the best I can do until tomorrow is 33.99.

[mtls2005]

2 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

Betterment.

Available to all.

 

from their T's and C's

 

While you must also reside in the U.S. full-time to use Betterment’s services, you can use your debit card overseas for purchases and at ATMs while you travel. If your Betterment Visa debit card transaction is successful, we can reimburse your ATM fees worldwide, including the Visa 1% transaction fee on foreign transactions, purchases, and ATM transactions.

 

https://www.betterment.com/help/debit-foreign-transactions

 

 

 

Re: Visa rate, which I infer to mean the rate is fixed for some 24 hour period.

 

Rates apply to the date the transaction was processed by Visa; this may differ from the actual date of the transaction.

 

Currencies fluctuate every day. The rate shown is effective for transactions submitted to Visa on May 6, 2022, with a bank foreign transaction fee of 0.0%.

 

https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

I get the daily USD/THB market rate on my Chase Visa. No foreign transaction fees. I use my card here, then pay it in the US from my US bank, no transfers required.

[mahjongguy]

The maximum amount per withdrawal at an ATM machine is determined by the brand and model of the machine. The majority of them are designed to dispense 20 notes. So, by the way, if the 1,000 note drawers are all empty then you might get 20 500-baht notes.

 

The maximum amount available per day, up to a certain limit, is per your agreement with the bank.  

[mtls2005]

17 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

I get the daily USD/THB market rate on my Chase Visa.

You make an ATM withdrawal? Teller withdrawal?

 

This is a credit card? Or ATM Debit card?

 

I'm guessing it's a Chase Sapphire Preferred ($95 per year)? They have an 80,000 point promo right now; occasionally it bumps to 100,000.

 

If a credit card, is this a Cash Advance?

 

And what is the daily/transaction limt?

 

And where do you use this method?

 

 

3 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

The maximum amount available per day, up to a certain limit, is per your agreement with the bank.  

Yes, both per transaction, and per day (multiple transactions) are often limits, which can also be adjusted upon request.

[gamb00ler]

Since about Jun 15, '22 the exchange rate on both Visa and Mastercard have been rather poor in comparison to WISE.  The usual difference is about .14 - .18 ฿ per $ but it has now risen to .25 - .35.  Also, the two companies rates are not in lock step as before.  VISA rate today is .3 below Mastercard.

 

I hope VISA and MC return to their better rates when the US $ is still relatively strong.  

 

I'm glad I added a Mastercard option in the last few months.

[jwdub12]

8 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Since about Jun 15, '22 the exchange rate on both Visa and Mastercard have been rather poor in comparison to WISE.  The usual difference is about .14 - .18 ฿ per $ but it has now risen to .25 - .35.  Also, the two companies rates are not in lock step as before.  VISA rate today is .3 below Mastercard.

 

I hope VISA and MC return to their better rates when the US $ is still relatively strong.  

 

I'm glad I added a Mastercard option in the last few months.

The Visa rate has stayed at 34.92 for the last 4 days even though the published exchange rate has currently risen to 35.35 . Kind of makes you wonder about if some manipulation games are being played..  

[gamb00ler]

25 minutes ago, jwdub12 said:

The Visa rate has stayed at 34.92 for the last 4 days even though the published exchange rate has currently risen to 35.35 . Kind of makes you wonder about if some manipulation games are being played..  

The Visa rate normally doesn't change on the weekends.  It should have changed Mon and Tue at 7AM.  I don't suspect anything nefarious.  It is probably merely incompetence or failure to cover for staffing problems.

 

The Visa website does accept messages about problems and I have sent them a complaint about the lack of updates on THB <--> USD rates.

Edited June 21, 2022 by gamb00ler

[JimmyJ]

3 day weekend.

 

"Juneteenth" a National Holiday beginning this year.

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by JimmyJ

[gamb00ler]

4 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

3 day weekend.

 

"Juneteenth" a National Holiday beginning this year.

 

 

I haven't paid enough attention so I don't know whether Visa and MasterCard do updates on every statutory holidays.  But, I can say that MasterCard did update on Monday and Tuesday this week.  I have an automated script that runs just after 3AM to capture the newest rate for them.

[jwdub12]

10 hours ago, jwdub12 said:

The Visa rate has stayed at 34.92 for the last 4 days even though the published exchange rate has currently risen to 35.35 . Kind of makes you wonder about if some manipulation games are being played..  

Much better today at 35.24