Travel agency TUI receives more criticism after Norwegian family was isolated in Thailand

[KhunLA]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Well its scientifically proven

UN-Scientifically disproven by me ... as I stated, if being airborne was much of a threat, I'd be infected by now.   Personal experience means more to me than; 'the science / study / survey'

[jacko45k]

Just now, KhunLA said:

UN-Scientifically disproven by me ... as I stated, if being airborne was much of a threat, I'd be infected by now.   Personal experience means more to me than; 'the science / study / survey'

And hence a worthless evaluation.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

UN-Scientifically disproven by me ... as I stated, if being airborne was much of a threat, I'd be infected by now.   Personal experience means more to me than; 'the science / study / survey'

Your data point is noted, however I cannot study that as its not published with peer review anywhere

Edited January 2, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[joecoolfrog]

On 1/1/2022 at 4:13 AM, robblok said:

Maybe not, but if i book a holiday I don't want to be confronted (unnecessarily) with people who have covid. Of course you cannot prevent all contact because there is covid in the local population. 

 

But to put people in a hotel with other guests is asking for trouble, even a condo is better. People who have covid should quarantine. Just because we can't control the populace does not mean you should expose holliday goers to even more risk.

 

I agree that they should not have to go to a hospital but then put them in a covid hotel or something where they can be separated and extra precautions can be taken. Its a recipe for disaster in a hotel, staff come in contact with covid sufferer and infect other guests. Not a good prospect.

 

I get what you are saying about the other risk but why increase it many folds to put people in a hotel with healthy guests? Hotels are not made for this. The chances of it going to someone in the staf who then infects others is much higher than in other situations. 

 

I do agree about more testing and self isolation. But i would not take the UK as example. Sorry they are plague island at the moment. So id rather not take it as an example.

' Plague Island ' , what stupid hyperbole.

The UK , much of Europe and the USA are currently reporting very high numbers of infections , however they are testing millions of people on a daily basis.

Do you seriously believe that if Thailand did the same it wouldn't record similarly high levels of infection ?

Nevermind that the UK and others have high levels of vaccinated and boosted citizens , which mitigate the seriousness of infection.

Remind me again how well Thailand is doing in this respect !

 

[Puccini]

I looked up the information Norway's Ministry of Foreign Affairs had on its website on 23 December 2021 and found this:

 

Quote

 

Information about international travel and the coronavirus

Artikkel | Last updated: 23/12/2021

 

The global advice against all non-essential travel was rescinded on 1 October 2021. The infection situation and local restrictions can change very quickly. Therefore, travel advice may be issued for specific countries if major challenges related to the pandemic emerge again. Anyone considering a trip abroad should think carefully about whether it is necessary to travel.

 

Source: https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/foreign-affairs/reiseinformasjon/travel_coronavirus/id2691821/?expand=factbox2833805

 

I consider it safe to assume that the same information was on that website also in Norwegian language.

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Puccini

[Puccini]

On 1/1/2022 at 9:04 AM, khunPer said:

It's amazing how Danes cannot take responsibility themselves, it's often somebody else's fault.

This topic is about a Norwegian family, but you talk about Danes.

[Virt]

11 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The study is flawed if that is what it is finding. 
 

Delta was 80~90% more transmissible than Alpha, Omicron is so much more transmissible than Delta that Delta is being wiped out by Omicron QED Omicron is much more transmissible than Alpha. 
 

 

Information on variants

however the good news is that Omicron is producing fewer hospitalised patients in most countries.

 

 

Maybe i used a wrong word to describe it.

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.27.21268278v1

 

 

Our findings confirm that the rapid spread of the Omicron VOC primarily can be ascribed to the immune evasiveness rather than an inherent increase in the basic transmissibility.

 

[DonniePeverley]

You can't just keep locking down. 

 

The cycle of cases rising ---> lockdown ----> cases fall ----> open up ----> cases rise ----> lockdown

 

There is a percentage of the population who won't be affected by any restrictions and will demand it - but a vast majority of the people in Thailand will be suffering. You can't just wreck the economy perpetually. They talk a good talk and say we must live with it, but when it comes down to it they simply don't. 

 

There has to be an end game here. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by DonniePeverley

[garyk]

On 12/31/2021 at 4:50 PM, RichardColeman said:

Think you may find they will resort to it when Omicron fills the hospitals and isolation units in a few weeks

Yes, but then the hotels will start charging hospital prices. 

[ikke1959]

With 1551 Omicron in Thailand on the 1st of January, the hospitals will soon be overcrowded...

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, garyk said:

Yes, but then the hotels will start charging hospital prices. 

They will be counting the number of toilet roll section and tissues from the box by the bed, to put it on your account!

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, Virt said:

Maybe i used a wrong word to describe it.

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.27.21268278v1

 

 

Our findings confirm that the rapid spread of the Omicron VOC primarily can be ascribed to the immune evasiveness rather than an inherent increase in the basic transmissibility.

 

From the abstract “We found an increased transmission for unvaccinated individuals”, so even the paper its self does not agree.

 

Also it is an analysis of limited data collected by individuals in a completely different county rather than a first person study where full data can be collected for analysis.

 

Quote

The data used in this study are available under restricted access due to Danish data protection legislation.
—SNIP—-

We performed no data collection or sequencing specifically for this study.

So it is accurate and excellent in as far as it goes but hardly definitive.

There is no information on the method of transmission and

Quote

Lastly, we we found a general higher transmission in households infected with the Omicron VOC relative to the Delta for both unvaccinated, fully vacci- nated and booster-vaccinated individuals.

If the majority of people most susceptible to infection have been vaccinated then of course the majority of people getting infected will have been vaccinated. So that data does not tell you that the vaccinated are more likely to be infected. Statistical analysis (that is the majority of the quoted paper) is remarkably slippery. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[BadSpottedDog]

On 1/1/2022 at 3:38 AM, RichardColeman said:

Sorry, but I think when travelling for  holiday in the middle of a pandemic you should be reading and investigating the situation more fully yourself and not relying on 'we got the impression'

I agree they should have investigated on their own, but to be fair, no other country that I know of, forces people into hospitals if they test positive. Quarantine, yes. But hospital is unreasonable. Additionally, all the info floating around in cyber space about Thailand, is not clear, contradictory, and Thai websites not reliable.

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

 

 

Also it is an analysis of limited data collected by individuals in a completely different county rather than a first person study where full data can be collected for analysis.

 

No one study can ever be definitive and I don't see anyone suggesting that. Whether a study is carried out in the cohorts country is neither here nor there. A meta analysis study for instance which happens to be one of the better credible ones combines a large number of studies together generally from different countires but focusing on the same questions.

 

The posted study however is not to be ignored because of its limitations, all studies have limitations. Only misguided gamblers will wait for further studies before action.

[crouchpeter]

On 1/1/2022 at 9:34 AM, Jotho said:

That is one of the worst part regarding covid that if you get it, then you will test positive 2-3 months after you are decleared healthy from it, and alot of people are healthy from the day they get it.. Especially regarding omicron, as it shows from research that it has almost no sick related symptoms.. You just test positive and you have to get bogged down with testing positive for the forseeable close future after ????

Get a medical certificate stating that you have recovered from COVID-19.

[KhaoYai]

On 1/1/2022 at 12:43 PM, the green light said:

there is always a double standard between foreigner and thai people.

you can't compare your thai friend experience with foreigner either expat or travelling to Thailand.

 

I'm fully aware of that but if they want tourists - maybe they should re-think their policy.

[KhaoYai]

On 1/1/2022 at 4:13 AM, Daithi85 said:

Completly different situation, your friends were already in thailand and did not test positive for covid .if Thai people test positive on arrival they too have to go into quarantine. So throwing out that it's one rule for Thais and another for foreigners is not true. 

I'm already in Thailand too - what do you think will happen to me if I test positive on my Day 5/6 test? Its not a different situation at all.

[khunPer]

10 hours ago, Puccini said:

This topic is about a Norwegian family, but you talk about Danes.

Thanks, I became aware of my mistake, but unfortunately after the edit-window.

There have been several stories in the news, including ScandAsia, about Danes traveling with TUI complaining about being Covid-isolated, also after a child tested positive. My conclusion is the same for the Norwegians here, we are pretty much alike - apart from Norwegians are tonal singing more when speaking our almost common Danish language - we were originally the same country...????

[Daithi85]

19 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I'm already in Thailand too - what do you think will happen to me if I test positive on my Day 5/6 test? Its not a different situation at all.

You'll be quarantined no doubt .

[Dasekel]

I think they were scammed, because they are foreigners. More than 10 family members of my wife in Bangkok tested positive for COVID ~6 months ago and they were all placed in hotels for isolation. So, if they had already booked a room in the right hotel, why were they not allowed to spend the isolation period there, unless the son had more serious symptoms?

Edited January 3, 2022 by Dasekel

[JustAnotherHun]

23 minutes ago, Dasekel said:

I think they were scammed, because they are foreigners.

If the rules a clear -and they are, it's no scam. Everybody knows what's going to happen if you are tested positive wile in ASQ.

If one wants to take the risk, up to him. 

[sandyf]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:26 PM, billd766 said:

Bit of a narrow minded view Bill, it is only those that are dependent on foreign tourism that are suffering, and that has been shrinking since the pandemic started. They are certainly not suffering around where I live, the area has prospered quite significantly.

 

But it isn't only them Sandy, but the loss of their income also affects the families that they used to send money to support. Add to that if they return to their families they are an additional mouth to feed on a reduced income.

 

It also affects the shops and food stalls where they used to work and now no longer spend it there. Add to that the ripple effect as with the bars closed there is a reduced demand for the beer and alcohol suppliers, the ice suppliers and even the ice factories etc in the longer term.

 

Back in the pre-Covid days if a bar closed the staff could easily be absorbed by other bars. but when 50 or 100 bars closed that doesn't work any more. If the leases don't get paid the bar/shop owner has less income etc.

 

It is the knock on or ripple effect like throwing a stone into a calm pond.

 

Granted there will always people that will still profit but even CP and the major companies will lose out on sales and get less profits and even they may reduce their staff to cut costs.

 

We had a reasonably quiet New Year but I am glad 2021 is behind us now.

 

I hope that you had a good one.

You point is perfectly valid Bill but you have to keep the numbers in perspective.

Back in the 30s about 12 percent of the Thai population were Chinese, on the eastern seaboard there are hundreds of Chinese graveyards some of which stretch as far as the eye can see. A large number of the early immigrants acquired land and for many years now the families have been selling off pockets of land to major businesses for quite substantial sums. That seems to have picked up pace a bit since the pandemic started, there are more housing developments, filling stations, car showrooms,  shops etc going up than ever before. There is certainly no shortage of work, but not really suited to out of work bar girls. 

We know of quite a few middle income people that gave up their work in Bangkok because of covid and come back to the area and created small businesses. Not everyone that was reliant on tourism still is. Something that could be a problem if it ever does recover.

It is a sad fact life that nothing is ever equal, something can only be sold when a demand exists so landowners in the north cannot enjoy the same opportunity as the more affluent coastal regions. What can be seen in the north doesn't really reflect how things are in the rest of the country. The bulk of the population is within a couple of hours from the sea and that is where the ongoing investment is.

We came back up from Chantaburi yesterday and passed through the commercial area of Rayong, every large retailer that was open had extensive queues into the car park. The number 7 was crawling with traffic heading north. I was quite surprised with it all considering the circumstances.

 

Yes I am also  looking forward to a better year, although it hasn't been particularly bad for us. Nothing like my wife's cousin, she got covid at work, infected her father who died within a couple of weeks. Just hope that the severity is on the decline and we can live with it, only time will tell.

Best wishes for the new year.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

You point is perfectly valid Bill but you have to keep the numbers in perspective.

Back in the 30s about 12 percent of the Thai population were Chinese, on the eastern seaboard there are hundreds of Chinese graveyards some of which stretch as far as the eye can see. A large number of the early immigrants acquired land and for many years now the families have been selling off pockets of land to major businesses for quite substantial sums. That seems to have picked up pace a bit since the pandemic started, there are more housing developments, filling stations, car showrooms,  shops etc going up than ever before. There is certainly no shortage of work, but not really suited to out of work bar girls. 

We know of quite a few middle income people that gave up their work in Bangkok because of covid and come back to the area and created small businesses. Not everyone that was reliant on tourism still is. Something that could be a problem if it ever does recover.

It is a sad fact life that nothing is ever equal, something can only be sold when a demand exists so landowners in the north cannot enjoy the same opportunity as the more affluent coastal regions. What can be seen in the north doesn't really reflect how things are in the rest of the country. The bulk of the population is within a couple of hours from the sea and that is where the ongoing investment is.

We came back up from Chantaburi yesterday and passed through the commercial area of Rayong, every large retailer that was open had extensive queues into the car park. The number 7 was crawling with traffic heading north. I was quite surprised with it all considering the circumstances.

 

Yes I am also  looking forward to a better year, although it hasn't been particularly bad for us. Nothing like my wife's cousin, she got covid at work, infected her father who died within a couple of weeks. Just hope that the severity is on the decline and we can live with it, only time will tell.

Best wishes for the new year.

My BIL, his wife and son are staying with us for the New Year. They live in Samut Prakan. Last night my wife told me that he was a maintenance man for a condo block down there and was on an extended break as the condo is running out of renters.

 

It is starting to get a bit closer to home now.

 

They are more than welcome and he has been doing some of the round tuit jobs that I have been able to get to.

Edited January 3, 2022 by billd766
Bad spelling

[KhaoYai]

8 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

If the rules a clear -and they are, it's no scam. Everybody knows what's going to happen if you are tested positive wile in ASQ.

If one wants to take the risk, up to him. 

If the rules are so clear, why are Thai's being allowed to isolate at home?

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, Daithi85 said:

You'll be quarantined no doubt .

Precisely. Also the same case if I have a contact - yet my Thai friend from Norway was allowed to isolate at her mother's house.

[JustAnotherHun]

9 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

If the rules are so clear, why are Thai's being allowed to isolate at home?

That my be discriminatory, but if you're foreigner youknow what the rules are. So they are clear.

Btw: tourists usually have no home to quarantaine in ????

Edited January 3, 2022 by JustAnotherHun

[EricTh]

That's Thailand. They only tell you the good things and not the bad things.

 

That's why the rules are not all spelt out in black and white.

[Daithi85]

1 minute ago, KhaoYai said:

Precisely. Also the same case if I have a contact - yet my Thai friend from Norway was allowed to isolate at her mother's house.

Why do you think you'd be quarantined if your only a close contact? I don't think that's the case. You'd be told to stay home and isolate, told to take a test and only quarantined if positive. That's my understanding anyway. 

[spermwhale]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:39 PM, daveAustin said:

To be fair, there’s no excuse for ignorance. Know the laws of where you’re going. Having said that, the policy sucks. Let’s hope that with enough bad press this ridiculousness gets ditched. Thailand, you will not attract 500 million tourists with that welcome. 

T

Edited January 3, 2022 by spermwhale

[Sig]

On 1/1/2022 at 12:12 AM, The Hammer2021 said:

Where do these imagined insurance scams originate? Where are the hospitals that are part of the so called scam? Where are the administrators who sign the documents? Where are the patients?

The answer to all these questions is Thailand. You have ZERO proof or evidence  of insurance hospital scams. But you are blaming Thailand not any other nation in the world. If you are promoting similar unproven  rumours on other nation or business  forums then your excuse  would be credible but I think you are only making these accusations on Thai forum about a situation  in Thailand. I don't  have to read between  lines.

I honestly hope that someday you'll get off of your incessant irrational accusations of numerous individuals of Thailand bashing. As I mentioned before, I'm not bashing, blaming, or accusing Thailand of ANYTHING. I'm starting to find myself thinking that the ease at which libel or slander suits can be made in Thailand is due to people who constantly berate others in such a nonsensical fashion as you. You have not the slightest clue of who I am or what my experience may be. You just automatically seem to think you know better and your deep and broad knowledge must cover everything in order to make the kind of statements you make - aka "a know-it-all". I happen to have a number of friends and a very close relative in the insurance industry and I have what perhaps may be a bit better understanding of how these things happen than the average person. I also have friends who are police officers and I have a couple of doctor friends who have told me how the money flows on some of these kinds of things. That doesn't mean it is happening in this case, but if you paid attention, I said that "I believe it is an insurance scam of sorts". That is not definitive. It may not be. It is a belief based on experience and the apparent situation. And it doesn't need to be exactly an insurance scam, but something akin - as I said "of sorts". You say I am blaming Thailand - again. And AGAIN, I tell you, I am not blaming Thailand and I never blamed Thailand. The fact that the situation being addressed is in Thailand doesn't make all criticism about it "Thailand bashing". Drawing that conclusion as you have is illogical and there is no evidence to support such nonsense. Some of your previous statements have shown that you are VERY clearly a racist and classist. I probably shouldn't even waste the time of day talking with such a person. I would never associate with a person who is so clearly racist and/or classist in real life and I probably should just block you on here. And I believe you should be banned for the racist statements you have made, but apparently the moderators are more gracious than I am. I do hope you'll come to a more sensible understanding of the ideas and opinions that people give. Just because they may be critical of something that happens in Thailand; it doesn't mean that they intend to bash Thailand whatsoever. They could be such as hater as that, but merely by such criticisms, it is NOT equivalent AT ALL.