Man Beats Up A Woman

[sceadugenga]

I have a theory that more than a few expats who move to Thailand come from situations which they couldn't really control. It could be a lot of things but it's usually a bad marriage, sometimes a failed business venture or a job redundancy. Life here is different, there's a beautiful young woman who loves him, others compete for his favour, people come into his house and clean and polish and address him as Loong.

A standard mistake here he makes is in thinking he's changed, he's become stronger, more powerful.... how else would life be so good, it must be of his own doing, nothing to do with the new surroundings.

He compounds the error in thinking he can control things around him that he doesn't approve of; situations he would avoid like the plague in the home country, usually confrontational ones, fall into the realm of things he can solve, control if you like.

Eventually disillusionment then bitterness comes of this, it's stands out in so many posts in ThaiVisa.com.

Sceadugenga recommends that having too high opinion of ones abilities is not the key to happiness in Thailand. Keep away from domestic disputes with or without a bug zapper.

[Ulysses G.]

I have a theory that more than a few expats who move to Thailand come from situations which they couldn't really control. It could be a lot of things but it's usually a bad marriage, sometimes a failed business venture or a job redundancy. Life here is different, there's a beautiful young woman who loves him, others compete for his favour, people come into his house and clean and polish and address him as Loong.

A standard mistake here he makes is in thinking he's changed, he's become stronger, more powerful.... how else would life be so good, it must be of his own doing, nothing to do with the new surroundings.

He compounds the error in thinking he can control things around him that he doesn't approve of; situations he would avoid like the plague in the home country, usually confrontational ones, fall into the realm of things he can solve, control if you like.

Eventually disillusionment then bitterness comes of this, it's stands out in so many posts in ThaiVisa.com.

Sceadugenga recommends that having too high opinion of ones abilities is not the key to happiness in Thailand. Keep away from domestic disputes with or without a bug zapper.

This is a truly GREAT post.

I've seen so many expats go from loving Thais to hating them because they start to understand that they are not as important as they thought they were when they first arrived on these shores.

It is not the Thais fault that a lot of us have no common sense!

[Nienke]

As for women's shelters for abuse, anybody know the name or whereabouts of any of them ? Any way to donate, volunteer, etc ? Might be a good thing to post on this thread.

From: http://www.geocities.com/wari9/thailand.htm

List of Women's Organizations with web pages

Global Alliance Against Traffic in Women (GAATW) http://www.inet.co.th/org/gaattw

National Council of Women of Thailand http://www.inet.co.th/org/ncwt

National Commission on Women's Affairs (Thailand) http://www.inet.co.th/org/tncwa

Address of all organizations with or without web pages

National Council of Women

Clearinghouse and Information Centre

Bangkok 10200

Thailand Gender Development and Research Institute

501/1 Mu 3Dechatungka Road

Sikan, Donmuagn

Bangkok 10210, Thailand

Asian Confederation of Women's Organizations

127/1 Sukumvit 79

Bangkok 10250

Thailand

National Council For Women of Thailand, Umbrella Organisation.

Manangkasila Mansion, Lanluang Road

Bangkok 10300, Thailand

T: 2 281 0081

F: 2 281 2189

Foundation For Women

35/267 Charansanitwongse Road 62,

Soi Wat Paorohit,

Bangkoknoi, Bangkok 10700.

Thailand

Mailing address:

Foundation of Women

P.O. Box 47 Bangkoknoi

Bangkok 10700

Thailand

E-mail: mailto:%[email protected]

Global Alliance Against Trafficking Women (GAATW)

191 Sivalai Condominium, Issaraphap Road, Soi 33, Bangkok Yai

10600 Bangkok, Thailand

Mailing address:

PO Box 1281, Bangkok Post Office,

Bangkok 10500, Thailand

Tel: 662 8641427/28

Fax: 662 864163

E-mail: mailto:%[email protected]

URL: http://www.inet.co.th/org/gaatw

Friends of Women Foundation

(Grassroots Women's Network-GROWNET)

218/16 Soi Pradipat 18, Phayathai

Bangkok 10400

Thailand

Tel: 279-0867, 278-3551

Women's Information Centre and Foundation

2/3 Soi Wang Lang, Arunamarin Road

Bangkok 10700, Thailand

Mail address:

P.O. Box 7-47

Bangkok 10700

EMPOWER Foundation, supports women in the sex industry

57/60 Tivanond Road

Nontburi 11000, Thailand

Tel: 02-526-8311, 02-968-8021,

02-968-8022

Fax: 02-526-3294

New Life Center

P.O. Box 29

Chiang Mai 50000

Thailand

Tel/fax: 66-53-244-569

Women's Studies Center

Faculty of Social Sciences

Chiangmai University

Chiangmai 50200, Thailand Lanna Women Center

Faculty of Education

Chiang Mai University 50200

T: 66 05 2 221699

Women Education for Advancement and Empowerment (WEAVE)

Chiang Mai University

PO Box 58

Chiang Mai 50202

Thailand

Tel/fax (66-53) 278-945, 260-193

Asia Pacific Forum on Women Law and Development (APWLD)

Santhitham Y.M.C.A Building,

11 Sermsuk Road, Mengrairasmi

Chiang Mai 50300, Thailand

Tel: (66-53) 404-613/404-614

Fax: (66-53) 404-615

Email: mailto:%[email protected]

Highland People Education and Development Foundation

658 Moo 15, Watmai Naakhai Road

T. Robwiang, A. Muang

Chiang Rai 57000

Tel: 66-53-714-772

Fax: 66-53-717-098

Development and Education Programme for Daughters and Communities Center (DEP)

P.O. Box 10, Mae Sai

Chiang Rai 57130

Thailand

Burmese Women Union

PO Box 42 Mae Hong Son 58000

Tel/fax (66-53) 611-146, 612-361

Email: mailto:%[email protected]

Karen Human Rights Groups

Karen Women's Organization

PO Box 5, Mae Sot

Tak 63110, Thailand

Women's Research and Development Center

Prince of Songkla University,

Faculty of Management Science

Head Yai 90112, Thailand

Women in Development Consortium (WIDCIT)

Network for women in development.

Office of the Rector, Thammasat University, Bangkok, Thailand

Another list:

http://www.distel.ca/womlist/countries/thailand.html

List of Non-governmental organisations in Thailand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-g...ons_in_Thailand

And, women organisations with explanations:

http://www.unifem-eseasia.org/projects/eva...ngo/vamthai.htm

Maybe put this in the pinned subjects?

Nienke

[EDIT:- I have now added this information to the Hospitals, Dentists, Lawyers etc. thread pinned at the top. - p1p]

[Blinky Bill]

I have a theory that more than a few expats who move to Thailand come from situations which they couldn't really control. It could be a lot of things but it's usually a bad marriage, sometimes a failed business venture or a job redundancy. Life here is different, there's a beautiful young woman who loves him, others compete for his favour, people come into his house and clean and polish and address him as Loong.

A standard mistake here he makes is in thinking he's changed, he's become stronger, more powerful.... how else would life be so good, it must be of his own doing, nothing to do with the new surroundings.

He compounds the error in thinking he can control things around him that he doesn't approve of; situations he would avoid like the plague in the home country, usually confrontational ones, fall into the realm of things he can solve, control if you like.

Eventually disillusionment then bitterness comes of this, it's stands out in so many posts in ThaiVisa.com.

Sceadugenga recommends that having too high opinion of ones abilities is not the key to happiness in Thailand. Keep away from domestic disputes with or without a bug zapper.

This is a truly GREAT post.

I've seen so many expats go from loving Thais to hating them because they start to understand that they are not as important as they thought they were when they first arrived on these shores.

It is not the Thais fault that a lot of us have no common sense!

Too true.

The land of the wanted or unwanted?

This is not only the situation in Thailand but in so many other countries where ex-pats tend to look for or find refuge. ie. A cheaper way of life usually associated with a lot of impoverished people. In most cases the women make themselves very available, boys too for those that are that way inclined.

Life is all very rosy till the money runs out.

[richard10365]

I think the reality of the Thailand fantasy comes in stages. First the newness and the beauty of something new, then the honeymoon stage, then the ugly part and finally comming to peace with your Thai sourroundings.

I'm not sure what stage I am in. I do know I am more content here in Thailand than anywhere I have been in my life. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I will try to ride this wave for as long as I can.

[Blinky Bill]

I think the reality of the Thailand fantasy comes in stages. First the newness and the beauty of something new, then the honeymoon stage, then the ugly part and finally comming to peace with your Thai sourroundings.

I'm not sure what stage I am in. I do know I am more content here in Thailand than anywhere I have been in my life. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I will try to ride this wave for as long as I can.

How long have you been here? After 20 years you start to get to the know the place.

[sceadugenga]

I think the reality of the Thailand fantasy comes in stages. First the newness and the beauty of something new, then the honeymoon stage, then the ugly part and finally comming to peace with your Thai sourroundings.

I'm not sure what stage I am in. I do know I am more content here in Thailand than anywhere I have been in my life. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I will try to ride this wave for as long as I can.

How long have you been here? After 20 years you start to get to the know the place.

Before you can get to know anything or anyone you have to know yourself first Bill.

A few people find themselves in Thailand for the first time.

[Blinky Bill]

Before you can get to know anything or anyone you have to know yourself first Bill.

A few people find themselves in Thailand for the first time.

Have you been talking with Tatootoo?

I've found and then lost myself many times over the past many years. I've met many in Thailand who have never had the pleasure of knowing themselves.

[richard10365]

I think the reality of the Thailand fantasy comes in stages. First the newness and the beauty of something new, then the honeymoon stage, then the ugly part and finally comming to peace with your Thai sourroundings.

I'm not sure what stage I am in. I do know I am more content here in Thailand than anywhere I have been in my life. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I will try to ride this wave for as long as I can.

How long have you been here? After 20 years you start to get to the know the place.

I'm a newbee compared to you Bill. I have only been here for a little over 3 years. I am not that new to being around other cultures. 6 years in Germany, 8 years in El Paso, and 4 years in Los Angeles. I think most of my adult life has been spent in other cultures. However, the Thai culture is the one I like the most.

[Blinky Bill]

I think the reality of the Thailand fantasy comes in stages. First the newness and the beauty of something new, then the honeymoon stage, then the ugly part and finally comming to peace with your Thai sourroundings.

I'm not sure what stage I am in. I do know I am more content here in Thailand than anywhere I have been in my life. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I will try to ride this wave for as long as I can.

How long have you been here? After 20 years you start to get to the know the place.

I'm a newbee compared to you Bill. I have only been here for a little over 3 years. I am not that new to being around other cultures. 6 years in Germany, 8 years in El Paso, and 4 years in Los Angeles. I think most of my adult life has been spent in other cultures. However, the Thai culture is the one I like the most.

Yeah, it sort of grows on you.

[richard10365]

I think the reality of the Thailand fantasy comes in stages. First the newness and the beauty of something new, then the honeymoon stage, then the ugly part and finally comming to peace with your Thai sourroundings.

I'm not sure what stage I am in. I do know I am more content here in Thailand than anywhere I have been in my life. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I will try to ride this wave for as long as I can.

How long have you been here? After 20 years you start to get to the know the place.

I'm a newbee compared to you Bill. I have only been here for a little over 3 years. I am not that new to being around other cultures. 6 years in Germany, 8 years in El Paso, and 4 years in Los Angeles. I think most of my adult life has been spent in other cultures. However, the Thai culture is the one I like the most.

Yeah, it sort of grows on you.

I wonder if the 2 years in Alabama could be considered another culture. It's deep in the heart of redneck land. It's almost the farang equivalent to Thailand. Pickup trucks, exotic food, fishing as a sport and lots of rain.

[reasonstobecheerful]

Whilst I have some sympathy with the opening poster and there may be room for an intermediate solution like horn blowing, headlights etc., frankly I think the general attitude here sucks, and this applies to less immediate situations where too many people don't like to get involved. We are in a society not an individual universe. It is reasonable to consider one's safety but I think, and I'm going to use an old fashioned word with exactitude, valour should come first and I don't see how one can not intervene. Actually it's not even valour, it doesn't even get to the thinking stage. One day it might be you on the receiving end and I hope you all get more help than you seem willing to give.

[richard10365]

Whilst I have some sympathy with the opening poster and there may be room for an intermediate solution like horn blowing, headlights etc., frankly I think the general attitude here sucks, and this applies to less immediate situations where too many people don't like to get involved. We are in a society not an individual universe. It is reasonable to consider one's safety but I think, and I'm going to use an old fashioned word with exactitude, valour should come first and I don't see how one can not intervene. Actually it's not even valour, it doesn't even get to the thinking stage. One day it might be you on the receiving end and I hope you all get more help than you seem willing to give.

I think there is more of a risk for a farang getting involved than a Thai citizen. I do think indirectly, I was involved. Just stopping and turning my motorcycle towards the man did seem to have an effect.

Maybe he hit her less because of me. I hope so. Or maybe I made it worse by just being there and he took her inside to really let her have it.

I do have other things to consider other than the womans safety. I have a son and I did think about his future over hers. If I died trying to be brave and help someone I didn't know, would that feed and clothe my son? Would it help pay for his education throughout his life?

Your wrong about it not getting to the thinking stage. There was a lot of thinking going on as I watched. And even though I did leave her alone with that man, my son's future outweighed any possibility of me rushing in to save her.

Also, as you pointed out, we live in a society. The society has laws. The laws, when broken, are monitored by the police and enforced by the courts. For you to rush in bravely might seem the better part of valor, it does put you in the "individual universe" category that you mentioned above.

[Dustoff]

Whilst I have some sympathy with the opening poster and there may be room for an intermediate solution like horn blowing, headlights etc., frankly I think the general attitude here sucks, and this applies to less immediate situations where too many people don't like to get involved. We are in a society not an individual universe. It is reasonable to consider one's safety but I think, and I'm going to use an old fashioned word with exactitude, valour should come first and I don't see how one can not intervene. Actually it's not even valour, it doesn't even get to the thinking stage. One day it might be you on the receiving end and I hope you all get more help than you seem willing to give.

Everyone is different, eh?

I have to admit, after many years of serving as a mediator in the ugliest of situations in civil and family courts throughout the US, I am very impressed indeed with the general responses given by my fellow expats in this thread!

You ROCK, dudes!

We of any intelligence whatsoever have to deal with our own values (including compassion, valor and common sense) when witnessing any domestic situation gone bad. We carry 'who we are' with us wherever we go in this world but I think we have to remember that we are 'strangers in a strange land' even within our own home cultures when domestic violence occurs between people other than those within our own families.

I am reminded of a situation long ago where American 'bystanders' intervened and severely beat a police officer who was grappling with a Pit Bull and exercising what witnesses reported as extreme violence and abuse of the animal 'victim'.

Turns out that the dog had attacked several young children, inflicting horrendous wounds and the officer was merely attempting to subdue the animal.

We are a violent species, all of us and 'victimization' is not always what it appears to be. More often than not, domestic situations are a partnership in violence and, as most experienced police officers know, intervention means a very careful containment of both parties if you do not wish to become a victim of both party's anger and rage.

Playing the hero is just another excuse for violence and serves little more than personal purpose.

If attacked, I will vehemently defend myself and my family;

If a child is abused or neglected I have no choice but to assist;

But when witnessing a violent encounter between adults, which I know absolutely nothing about, I think that my role is to attract hopefully professional attention to the situation then simply add the experience to my long list of sadnesses concerning human interaction.

I am sorry to have to disagree with you, umm, reasontobecheerful, but I don't think that willingness to whup-ass represents heroism. And, after 18 months in full-on combat, I don't think that I am about "one's own safety". I think that we are in "a society" and "an individual universe" simultaneously; while a society or culture may determine some of our behavior, individually we have little comprehension of the complexity of human behavior and to project our ignorance blindly and/or violently into the interactions of others smacks of a, umm, George Bush mentality...

Please don't take this as judgmental in any way as I truly do appreciate your willingness to draw your sabre against the Dark Side of the Force...

[fabianfred]

Thais rarely seem to get involved with someone elses domestic disputes.... for us it is very dangerous...

Back home in the UK if a taxi driver cuts you off and you curse him.... he may shout back... but five seconds later it is all forgotten.... not here.... if you bawl out a Tuk-Tuk driver he is very likely to remember you or your license no. and try to get even....

by a certain part of society here.... the drunks, thugs, general low-lifes, we are detested and objects of jealousy

I would only get involved in absolute emergency.... or own family

[Blinky Bill]

Well said Dustoff.

If there were such a place as heaven it would be full of dead heroes.

[mcgriffith]

Yeah, Dustoff, very well spoken

I have a lot of cop friends in the US, mostly motorcycle riding buddies, and a few fellow scuba diving mates.

The one call they abhore above all others is a domestic dispute.

Totally unpredictible, emotions running at a fever pitch.

They've told me they would rather roll for an armed robbery call.....

Anyone who intercedes in a situation like this, without special training, is playing with fire......

[reasonstobecheerful]

Sounds like you lot are truly naturalised.

Edited June 11, 2007 by reasonstobecheerful

[JimsKnight]

You could say in answer to reason: You either burn in or you burn out!

[Blinky Bill]

Sounds like you lot are truly naturalised.

Not quite sure what you mean by "naturalised".

I've stayed alive for the past many years by being street wise. I am certainly no coward and won't back-down when I or mine are threatened. But there is no fukking way I'd put my nuts on the line for someone else's domestic dispute. Did that often enough as a cop in my younger daze. Guns, knives, rolling pins, frying pans, fist, feet, finger nails and teeth, and that often comes from both members of the disputing couple. You interfere and you become the enemy.

As I said in an earlier post...get real.

[fruittbatt]

The OP's overwhelming urge to help the woman being attacked is great. Congratulations for doing what you could in difficult, unclear, and dangerous circumstances.

As a young woman I did intervene when I saw a great big drunken bully lashing into a small woman in Australia one time. I got a fist in my own face and a week of feeling angry, tearful, resentful, and disempowered for shouting at this big ape to leave the woman alone. That experience taught me to get the professionals, the police, asap.

Here, we do not know whether an aggressor may be armed, so keeping a police emergency number on the mobile is probably the best strategy for intervention. I know it is profoundly disappointing when the police seem disinterested or unwilling to act, but there are limits to our ability to help in such circumstances and it is crazy to risk one's own safety with someone who is blind with rage or alcohol or both.

[reasonstobecheerful]

Fruitbatt you can be proud of yourself. one's self respect is worth a whole lot more than all the things I hear being "protected" here.

The father and uncle of a young woman in England have just been convicted of murder.

It was an "honour killing".....the ultimate oxymoron.

Months before they had tried the same thing and she had gone to the police. It still happened.

There doesn't seem much difference in what one would see. Where is everyone drawing the line of non intervention?

[meadish_sweetball]

Ultimately the choice is yours. If you think it is worth taking the risk of being shot or badly stabbed for physically getting involved, you are a greater hero than I am. I would probably get involved in my home country as few people are armed as a rule.

Here? Probably not - I have people who depend on me being alive.

[Dustoff]

Fruitbatt you can be proud of yourself. one's self respect is worth a whole lot more than all the things I hear being "protected" here.

There doesn't seem much difference in what one would see. Where is everyone drawing the line of non intervention?

It is not about "drawing the line of non-intervention" but about the difference between true humanitarianism and pure ego.

Drawing from your own posts, I get little indication that you are somehow endowed with either the experience, training or wisdom to make decisions about who is right and who is wrong in any dispute whatsoever - evidenced by your judgments of those very experienced professionals on these boards who express intelligent opinions.

Sorry, but your alleged willingness to engage in violence for the benefit of some 'victim', who you are far from qualified to identify, smacks of what most would see as mock heroism.

It would be my hope that when in witness of violence you are finished thumping your chest, you will make every attempt to attract the attention of appropriate/trained responders who will likely make more reasoned/rational decisions than yourself.

Get on the horn, stay on the horn;

Abusers usually do not like an audience.

Tourist Police - 053-248-130 - They speak English

Emergency - 191

I have them programmed into my cellphone; do you?

If not in a vehicle, make a racket/draw a crowd!

The old story goes:

A man falls thru the hole of an outside toilet and is about to drown in human waste;

"FIRE, FIRE", he yells!

After his rescue the responders ask why he yelled, Fire!".

"I didn't think anyone would come running if I yelled "Sh1T"...

If you have a brain, use it...

[mcgriffith]

Dustoff:

McG

[reasonstobecheerful]

It is not about "drawing the line of non-intervention" but about the difference between true humanitarianism and pure ego.

Drawing from your own posts, I get little indication that you are somehow endowed with either the experience, training or wisdom to make decisions about who is right and who is wrong in any dispute whatsoever - evidenced by your judgments of those very experienced professionals on these boards who express intelligent opinions.

Sorry, but your alleged willingness to engage in violence for the benefit of some 'victim', who you are far from qualified to identify, smacks of what most would see as mock heroism.

It would be my hope that when in witness of violence you are finished thumping your chest, you will make every attempt to attract the attention of appropriate/trained responders who will likely make more reasoned/rational decisions than yourself.

Get on the horn, stay on the horn;

Abusers usually do not like an audience.

Tourist Police - 053-248-130 - They speak English

Emergency - 191

I have them programmed into my cellphone; do you?

If not in a vehicle, make a racket/draw a crowd!

The old story goes:

A man falls thru the hole of an outside toilet and is about to drown in human waste;

"FIRE, FIRE", he yells!

After his rescue the responders ask why he yelled, Fire!".

"I didn't think anyone would come running if I yelled "Sh1T"...

If you have a brain, use it...

[reasonstobecheerful]

Dustoff you made a lot of assumptions based on insufficient evidence. I was giving my opinion and frankly I found it pontificating and rather rude.

Edited June 12, 2007 by reasonstobecheerful

[JimmyCA]

well theres 2 things you could of done, call or get the police, or act like superman and save her day, if i saw someone hitting someone profusely I would not stand idely by, especially if it was a kid or grandma getting beat, if there was no gun i would try to stop it, if there was a gun involved your taking a risk, let me ask you something, if you saw your mom getting beat would you walk away and call the police? I didnt think so.

Only a fool would interfere. For sure every Thai in the area, even your best friends, would hapily kick any farangs ass gang style who had an altercation with a thai.

Know the game

[Austhaied]

reasonstobecheerful, that's all fine and dandy until one day your going to come across the "wrong type" of person who may just have your kryptonite. How was it your business to get invovled with a Korean man punching another farang man. I just don't see how it was your business. But then again what do i know.

[Blinky Bill]

Dustoff you made a lot of assumptions based on insufficient evidence. I was giving my opinion and frankly I found it pontificating and rather rude.

Seems you have managed to learn how to copy others posts without making any comment yourself. Well done. Perhaps you should spend less time talking crap and more in learning how to post in the correct manner.