ICE vs EV, the debate thread

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3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Good luck charging your car from 'the sun' if you live in England.

Just wait a bit:

The world’s longest subsea cable will send clean energy from Morocco to the UK

A 10.5 gigawatt (GW) solar and wind farm will be built in Morocco’s Guelmim-Oued Noun region, and it will supply the UK with clean energy via subsea cables. The twin 1.8 GW high voltage direct current (HVDC) subsea cables will be the world’s longest.

https://electrek.co/2021/09/27/the-worlds-longest-subsea-cable-will-send-clean-energy-from-morocco-to-the-uk/

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

 

Maybe you should try reading what you wrote Here it is again:

"Nothing is killing the planet, the planet is fine.  Human WILL eventually destroy the natural resources then need to live on the planet, and become extinct, or close to it.   But the planet is fine."

What you wrote, clearly takes it literally. Whether you actually believe that to be the case, and especially whether you care about the issue or not, are irrelevant. I'm holding you accountable for what you wrote. Whether that corresponds to what you believe or what you feel, who cares?

Think I just stated I took it literally also.  Re-read my last post.  

[Lacessit]

If I run out of fuel on a trip, a jerrycan and the nearest gasoline station will solve the problem.

If I run out of electrons, only a tow truck will solve my problem.

 

[KhunLA]

17 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If I run out of fuel on a trip, a jerrycan and the nearest gasoline station will solve the problem.

If I run out of electrons, only a tow truck will solve my problem.

 

Pretty sure there's some savvy truck owners' out there already with generators.

 

If I bought an EV (car), I'd definitely invest in a solar generator.

Brother sent me this a while back: 

 

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Pretty sure there's some savvy truck owners' out there already with generators.

 

If I bought an EV (car), I'd definitely invest in a solar generator.

Brother sent me this a while back: 

 

I think you'll find the charging rate from one of those is very slow. It's a bit like trying to fill a fuel tank with a pipette.

While I am sure EV's will probably supplant the ICE eventually, there are still quite a few issues to be dealt with. It won't affect me, my current ICE vehicle may well last longer than I do.

On YouTube, there's a couple of videos by a guy called John Cadogan discussing various aspects of EV's.

[Yellowtail]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

Just wait a bit:

The world’s longest subsea cable will send clean energy from Morocco to the UK

A 10.5 gigawatt (GW) solar and wind farm will be built in Morocco’s Guelmim-Oued Noun region, and it will supply the UK with clean energy via subsea cables. The twin 1.8 GW high voltage direct current (HVDC) subsea cables will be the world’s longest.

https://electrek.co/2021/09/27/the-worlds-longest-subsea-cable-will-send-clean-energy-from-morocco-to-the-uk/

Well, that's about 10% of what the UK gets from nuclear now, yes? 

 

How much more electricity will we need in the UK when all the cars and all the commercial and residential  heating are all electric? 

 

So I think it safe to say that monetary and environmental cost of the project should be categorized as subsidies for the renewable energy sector, yes?

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2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Well, that's about 10% of what the UK gets from nuclear now, yes? 

 

How much more electricity will we need in the UK when all the cars and all the commercial and residential  heating are all electric? 

 

So I think it safe to say that monetary and environmental cost of the project should be categorized as subsidies for the renewable energy sector, yes?

I don't if there are any subsidies for this project or not, But the fact is this is a new and rapidly developing technology. Whereas fossil fuel powered energy sources have been in existence for over a century and they're still being subsidized.

And even unsubsidized, solar and wind power not only beat the cost of fossil fuel provided power, but it can  actually be cheaper to build solar power or wind power facilities to replace fossil fuel facilities  than it is to keep an existing fossil fuel power facility operating.

https://www.lazard.com/perspective/lcoe2020

Do I have to spell out what that means in the case of building new solar or wind power facilities vs building new fossil fuel facilities? And as for the cost of nuclear power...

 

[kwak250]

Petrol generator would be good to take around in your ev car.

 

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, kwak250 said:

Petrol generator would be good to take around in your ev car.

 

Yea, solar would take a while to charge anything Ecar up, and a very expensive solar generator (2400w) at that.  Saw one YT vid, and estimated 16hr to top up 50%, but on a 120v line.  Still silly long.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, kwak250 said:

Petrol generator would be good to take around in your ev car.

 

You could leave the generator running in the boot and charge while you drive.

DIY hybrid! ......... and no 'difficult' emission tests to pass.

[JoePai]

MG overtakes Honda, Renault and Mazda as UK sales hit record high

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/01/12/mg-overtakes-honda-renault-mazda-uk-sales-hit-record-high/ 

[KhunLA]

'Brit Designed' is back ... ????

 

Good for them, and competition is a beautiful thing.  Others will need to bring their silly pricing down.  

[placeholder]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:00 PM, Lacessit said:

I think you'll find the charging rate from one of those is very slow. It's a bit like trying to fill a fuel tank with a pipette.

While I am sure EV's will probably supplant the ICE eventually, there are still quite a few issues to be dealt with. It won't affect me, my current ICE vehicle may well last longer than I do.

On YouTube, there's a couple of videos by a guy called John Cadogan discussing various aspects of EV's.

Yes, another member of thaivisa.com has been sharing them with us. Suffice it to say the Cadogan has been predicting the imminent demise of Tesla for years now.

[BritManToo]

On 1/13/2022 at 2:38 PM, JoePai said:

MG overtakes Honda, Renault and Mazda as UK sales hit record high

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/01/12/mg-overtakes-honda-renault-mazda-uk-sales-hit-record-high/ 

Behind a paywall.

[JoePai]

Extension :

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Behind a paywall.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/mg-overtakes-honda-renault-mazda-141701924.html?.tsrc=rss&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaW52ZXN0b3JlaWdodC5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHaYyIIcV5YwZuj0ysSnrLgYn_7HPe1vi1MUrzxTVYISHbev7ScNYBwqHXcMlgcZYTXGDJWOCf1QHf9Z3KRk30k5QUTIWP3Igrdz5bCMkUn0u9sIiEKQfGIS_0IHmohLFb4VqibugN3SMhEh_7oNpMedawPAASnPsww1MgqNgSua

[NanLaew]

On 1/11/2022 at 11:00 AM, BritManToo said:

On 1/10/2022 at 6:21 PM, 2009 said:

Ever heard of the sun?

Good luck charging your car from 'the sun' if you live in England.

In the meantime Norway, a nation not exactly blessed with sun and warmth, has an EV market penetration of up around +80%.

[NanLaew]

19 hours ago, BritManToo said:

On 1/13/2022 at 2:38 PM, JoePai said:

MG overtakes Honda, Renault and Mazda as UK sales hit record high

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/01/12/mg-overtakes-honda-renault-mazda-uk-sales-hit-record-high/ 

Behind a paywall.

Get yourself the Bypass Paywalls add-in or extension and install in your browser of choice.

[Yellowtail]

46 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

In the meantime Norway, a nation not exactly blessed with sun and warmth, has an EV market penetration of up around +80%.

Indeed

 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

In the meantime Norway, a nation not exactly blessed with sun and warmth, has an EV market penetration of up around +80%.

UK has banned all sales of new ICE from 2030.

With no plans to provide electric recharging stations.

Conspiracy theory is they only want rich people to drive their own, clearing the riff raff off the roads. 

[Yellowtail]

30 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

UK has banned all sales of new ICE from 2030.

With no plans to provide electric recharging stations.

Conspiracy theory is they only want rich people to drive their own, clearing the riff raff off the roads. 

No, they only want the rich to own their own cars, they'll still want the poor to drive for them. 

[KhunLA]

41 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

UK has banned all sales of new ICE from 2030.

With no plans to provide electric recharging stations.

Conspiracy theory is they only want rich people to drive their own, clearing the riff raff off the roads. 

There's about 45 yrs left of known oil reserves, at today's consumption level.  So 10 or say 15 years left for ICEs, then they can ban the sale of petrol, keeping the rest for home heating oil.

 

Let the eat cake .... ????

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

There's about 45 yrs left of known oil reserves, at today's consumption level.  So 10 or say 15 years left for ICEs, then they can ban the sale of petrol, keeping the rest for home heating oil.

 

Let the eat cake .... ????

Given vehicles require batteries, and heating one's home does not, should that not be the other way around? Just sayin'

[The Hammer2021]

On 1/9/2022 at 9:35 PM, Boomer6969 said:

I don't think the issue is how we mobilise the energy we consume, it is more about limiting our consumption. Flying 10 time around the world, every year for leisure of frivolous work meetings is criminal, we can have perfectly good lives while staying within a few hundred kilometres from where we live.

Who determines frivolous? What is wrong with frivolity given its opposite of puritanical control? No it is not criminal and not even unethical except in the mind of eco extremists who wish to usher in a new age of grim state control.

[NanLaew]

On 1/16/2022 at 2:22 PM, BritManToo said:

UK has banned all sales of new ICE from 2030.

With no plans to provide electric recharging stations.

Conspiracy theory is they only want rich people to drive their own, clearing the riff raff off the roads. 

'bout time too.

[placeholder]

On 1/16/2022 at 2:22 PM, BritManToo said:

UK has banned all sales of new ICE from 2030.

With no plans to provide electric recharging stations.

Conspiracy theory is they only want rich people to drive their own, clearing the riff raff off the roads. 

Actually, the UK govt is providing major support for  electric charging stations at homes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/customer-guidance-electric-vehicle-homecharge-scheme/electric-vehicle-homecharge-scheme-guidance-for-customers#:~:text=The government recognises that many,one chargepoint and its installation.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/22/uk-will-require-new-homes-to-have-ev-chargers-starting-in-2022/

[LarrySR]

On 1/11/2022 at 4:32 PM, Lacessit said:

If I run out of fuel on a trip, a jerrycan and the nearest gasoline station will solve the problem.

If I run out of electrons, only a tow truck will solve my problem.

 

For those who drive a modern EV, it doesn’t take long to realise that the term ‘Range Anxiety’ is a product of fossil fuel thinking.

Once you switch from wondering “where is the next fuel station that I will have to find?” to automatically plugging-in when reaching one’s home or destination – it goes away. EV refuelling is so easy when 90% or more is done in the car’s downtime and you are doing your own thing.

For longer trips away from home, the growing network of DC fast-chargers makes that 10% or less of charging away from home base eminently possible, especially in jurisdictions like the UK (or Tasmania – as well as parts of mainland Australia) where the network is more mature and EV chargers are placed to allow for multiple recharging options.

In fact, even if the battery is getting too low to make it to a DC fast-charger (an unlikely scenario given the accuracy of range estimates and map systems in current EV choices), then finding a power point to do an emergency top-up is way easier (and quicker) than finding a 4 litre tin, funnel and getting to/from a petrol station.

[pedro01]

I grew up used to the noise and feel of a gas engine - and I feel that electric cars are so soulless.

 

Both out cars are 3.0 V6 - and make a lot of noise. In fact - the wife's car shakes the windows on the house when she's parking it and there's never any doubt she's turned into our soi 'cause you can hear it. 

 

I think hybrid is as far as we should go. I usually drive to Samui once a year - that would be a major logistical issue - but imagine coming back to Bangkok from Isaan after New Years or Songkran - there would be massive queue's at the charging stations. So the charging time has to come down to the amount of time it would take to fill a gas engine or it will die a death when we hit a certain tipping point.

 

So for it to be practical for me - I need about 500km range WITH air con and radio on AND for the charging time to be under 5 mins.

[Lacessit]

24 minutes ago, LarrySR said:

For those who drive a modern EV, it doesn’t take long to realise that the term ‘Range Anxiety’ is a product of fossil fuel thinking.

Once you switch from wondering “where is the next fuel station that I will have to find?” to automatically plugging-in when reaching one’s home or destination – it goes away. EV refuelling is so easy when 90% or more is done in the car’s downtime and you are doing your own thing.

For longer trips away from home, the growing network of DC fast-chargers makes that 10% or less of charging away from home base eminently possible, especially in jurisdictions like the UK (or Tasmania – as well as parts of mainland Australia) where the network is more mature and EV chargers are placed to allow for multiple recharging options.

In fact, even if the battery is getting too low to make it to a DC fast-charger (an unlikely scenario given the accuracy of range estimates and map systems in current EV choices), then finding a power point to do an emergency top-up is way easier (and quicker) than finding a 4 litre tin, funnel and getting to/from a petrol station.

I don't think station owners in the Gilgunnia area will provide enough demand to justify the expense of an EV charging station.

How much fossil fuel energy goes into the manufacture of an "environmentally-friendly" EV? You think the recharging facilities are all running off solar and wind power?

 

[LarrySR]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't think station owners in the Gilgunnia area will provide enough demand to justify the expense of an EV charging station.

How much fossil fuel energy goes into the manufacture of an "environmentally-friendly" EV? You think the recharging facilities are all running off solar and wind power?

 

Silly