Be safe out there. Some are playing roulette.

[Eibot]

On 1/13/2022 at 1:08 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Roulette is forbidden in Thailand, so a useless post.

Prostitution and not wearing a helmet is also forbidden in Thailand...

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

All of these things put unnecessary stress on our health systems, so why is the lifelong smoker, who always knew that cigarettes cause cancer, any more entitled to healthcare than the guy who refuses a vaccine that he should have known would lessen his chances of dying from covid?

I prefer to view it as ...........

Why do you think the fat guy should get health care and the anti-vaxxer not.

If people didn't over eat and under exercise we probably wouldn't need COVID vaccines in the first place.

 

For countries that provide public health care, if they don't want to treat you because of your personal choices, you shouldn't have to pay the taxes to support that public healthcare.

 

And what about the countries that don't provide public health care?

If people didn't get sick the hospitals wouldn't be profitable.

Edited January 17, 2022 by BritManToo

[meechai]

On 1/12/2022 at 7:11 PM, WEBBYB808 said:

We all test positive  5 days, we good now.  So, she just said, her and the ladies tested positive  but never stopped working, or seeing people. 

Because they can?

 

I mean you said it yourself 5 days & all good so?

How is it different than millions going to work with a cold or the Flu because they can or need income

 

This whole the sky is falling mentality has to end

 

[Chomper Higgot]

36 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

I don’t pay attention to what anti-vaxxers say or post on Facebook/YouTube, so I don’t see how it affects my life. I also don’t believe that any significant number of normal people are being converted by the misinformation they post online. it’s just people gravitating towards others who already think the same way they do; the Internet has made it far easier than we ever could have imagined to do this.

To be honest, I really don’t care if someone dies after they refuse a vaccine that might have saved their life. I see it as a poor choice, the same way people smoke, drink, do drugs, eat junk food, or go skiing out of bounds. All of these things put unnecessary stress on our health systems, so why is the lifelong smoker, who always knew that cigarettes cause cancer, any more entitled to healthcare than the guy who refuses a vaccine that he should have known would lessen his chances of dying from covid?

 

I understand your argument that’s it’s about the healthcare system being overloaded, but they were overloaded long before covid. How much extra capacity might there be if we didn’t already have our hospitals full of people who are past the average life expectancy, with a bunch of chronic health problems that probably could have been avoided if they had just taken better care of themselves throughout their lives?

 

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s pretty ridiculous myself that hospital beds are being taken up by people who refused to get vaccinated, but no more ridiculous than the paramedics here in Canada having to repeatedly revive junkies after their bi-weekly overdose. The big difference I see, is that when I say the junkies should be left to die, I get scolded for not being compassionate enough, while if I said the anti-vaxxers should be left to die, I think many would probably agree, and press the heart button. 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not support the view that anyone should ever for any reason be refused the medical treatment they need.

 

The health care systems are resourced to provide medical treatment that barely meets the predictable demand (life style diseases are part of that predictable demand).

 

A pandemic is above and beyond the predictable demand and those refusing vaccination are placing a significantly disproportionate demand on health services.

 

I nevertheless believe anti-Vaxxers should, like your hyperbole bi-weekly overdosing junkies, receive medical treatment when they need it.

 

I don’t believe it ‘ridiculous’ that hospital beds are being taken up by people who have refused vaccination, rather it is predictable and almost entirely unnecessary.

 

For this reason, among others, I support vaccine mandates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ryan754326]

46 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

 

For countries that provide public health care, if they don't want to treat you because of your personal choices, you shouldn't have to pay the taxes to support that public healthcare.

 

This is exactly what worries me about the way things are going. Now is a great time for many governments to set the precedent that if you want your healthcare to be paid for, you do what you’re told in regards to personal health choices. I see it being very unlikely that they would allow people to opt out and pay for their own coverage, so how long before they want to control what we eat, what we drink, what we smoke, and what we do?

 

I know I’ll be called a conspiracy theorist for writing the comment above, but let’s be real: Do you honestly think that the government really cares if you die of lung cancer from smoking cigarettes? Of course they don’t. They only care because it costs the system money. 
Cigarettes would have been illegal in western countries ages ago if the people running things actually cared about each individual life. They only remain legal because the taxes collected on them more than pay for the people who do end up in hospitals because of them. 

The Canadian province of Quebec is now considering a tax on those who refuse to be vaccinated in order to cover rising healthcare costs, and they say the tax won’t be small. What they haven’t done is considered whether those people who will be forced to pay the tax might have already paid much more than their fair share into the pot.
If we’re going to start scrutinizing everyone’s personal decisions and taxing them more or less based on how much they might be costing the system, then we might as well throw the whole idea of socialized healthcare out the window. I’m not saying that’s what I want for my country, but I could afford American style healthcare if I had to, and I would be willing to pay for it if it meant that I didn’t have to cover the cost of all the people who do unhealthy or dangerous things that I would never do. 
 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Ryan754326

[Ryan754326]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

 

 

I nevertheless believe anti-Vaxxers should, like your hyperbole bi-weekly overdosing junkies, receive medical treatment when they need it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No hyperbole there whatsoever. Happens all the time. The paramedics know many of these people by name. 

[Airalee]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

And what about the countries that don't provide public health care?

If people didn't get sick the hospitals wouldn't be profitable?

Studies have been done on the optimal hospital occupancy rates.  In the US, there were penalties in place for hospitals that fell under certain thresholds. In larger hospitals, 80-85% capacity was considered optimal.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4191350/
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7060560/#CR4
 

ICU beds: less is more? Yes

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7183391/

 

And if you look at one of the larger medical centers in the US, you can see that the occupancy rate is hardly at critical levels (overall for level 1, 2 and 3) and that a much higher percentage of ICU beds are occupied by non-Covid patients.

 

https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/overview-of-tmc-icu-bed-capacity-and-occupancy/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

40 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I prefer to view it as ...........

Why do you think the fat guy should get health care and the anti-vaxxer not.

If people didn't over eat and under exercise we probably wouldn't need COVID vaccines in the first place.

 

For countries that provide public health care, if they don't want to treat you because of your personal choices, you shouldn't have to pay the taxes to support that public healthcare.

 

And what about the countries that don't provide public health care?

If people didn't get sick the hospitals wouldn't be profitable.

Refer my last post above regarding my views on the right to treatment. 

 

But your post raises a couple of other issues:

 

Countries that provide public healthcare.

 

Flipping your argument, if the state provides your health care paid for by taxation then the state has a strong argument for mandating vaccines to reduce costs to tax payers.

 

For nations without public health (or more likely for market driven health care systems) the insurers have a vested interest in increasing premiums for people refusing vaccination.

[Chomper Higgot]

9 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

This is exactly what worries me about the way things are going. Now is a great time for many governments to set the precedent that if you want your healthcare to be paid for, you do what you’re told in regards to personal health choices. I see it being very unlikely that they would allow people to opt out and pay for their own coverage, so how long before they want to control what we eat, what we drink, what we smoke, and what we do?

 

I know I’ll be called a conspiracy theorist for writing the comment above, but let’s be real: Do you honestly think that the government really cares if you die of lung cancer from smoking cigarettes? Of course they don’t. They only care because it costs the system money. 
Cigarettes would have been illegal in western countries ages ago if the people running things actually cared about each individual life. They only remain legal because the taxes collected on them more than pay for the people who do end up in hospitals because of them. 

The Canadian province of Quebec is now considering a tax on those who refuse to be vaccinated in order to cover rising healthcare costs, and they say the tax won’t be small. What they haven’t done is considered whether those people who will be forced to pay the tax might have already paid much more than their fair share into the pot.
If we’re going to start scrutinizing everyone’s personal decisions and taxing them more or less based on how much they might be costing the system, then we might as well throw the whole idea of socialized healthcare out the window. I’m not saying that’s what I want for my country, but I could afford American style healthcare if I had to, and I would be willing to pay for it if it meant that I didn’t have to cover the cost of all the people who do unhealthy or dangerous things that I would never do. 
 

Big business is already controlling all those things.

 

 

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Flipping your argument, if the state provides your health care paid for by taxation then the state has a strong argument for mandating vaccines to reduce costs to tax payers.

Lots of pensioners died from COVID.

The UK government is quids in, for pensions they no longer have to pay.

If I were the UK government I'd be shipping COVID patients out of hospitals and distributing them among the nursing homes ....... but wait, that's exactly what they did!

Edited January 17, 2022 by BritManToo

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Lots of pensioners died from COVID.

The UK government is quids in, for pensions they no longer have to pay.

If I were the UK government I'd be shipping COVID patients out of hospitals and distributing them among the nursing homes ....... but wait, that's exactly what they did!

I seem to recall you singing this crowd’s praises.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I seem to recall you singing this crowd’s praises.

Off topic,

I haven't voted since Arthur Scargill's Socialist Labour Party disappeared.

 

[Lemsta69]

On 1/13/2022 at 5:18 PM, DefaultName said:

Fallangs too; I've only been to a local restaurant once this year (after Covid hospital) and the stories are silly.  Many seem to have been sick, or failed a test, but very few did any form of isolation - and they don't seem bothered at all about that.

what's a "fallang", is that like a falling but with an 'a'? ????

[Ryan754326]

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Big business is already controlling all those things.

 

 

Can you elaborate?
I don’t really feel any control over my life by big business.
I would like to see more transparency in the dealings between big business and government, but… I know… I’m dreaming. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Ryan754326 said:

Can you elaborate?
I don’t really feel any control over my life by big business.
I would like to see more transparency in the dealings between big business and government, but… I know… I’m dreaming. 

A post on this was removed, so I’ll have to refer you to the widely available information on a topic you seem to have an interest in.

[NanaSomchai]

16 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Cuomo did the same thing in New York.

Same with Italy, the eastern side of France, the whole french speaking region of Belgium (aka Wallonia) and Spain the first year.

[Atlantis]

On 1/16/2022 at 12:19 AM, Danderman123 said:

Because to support your crazy position, you must post misinformation.

 

Posting misinformation during an epidemic should be criminal.

should you not give fair warning to the OP for suggesting 1 in 10 people have severe symptoms? Especially when he had ample opportunity to address this after his initial post but instead pretended to not understand the criticism.

I'm surprised (not!) that Big Bird isn't on the case either.

[Atlantis]

On 1/16/2022 at 10:01 PM, WEBBYB808 said:

When you refuse a vaccine  you risk the virus mutating  into a deadlier  virus to be unleashed  on the world, as the virus mutates in the unvaccinated. 

The virus only mutates in the unvaccinated does it? Are you quite sure about that? That is indeed what you mean, no? Otherwise why write "when you refuse a vaccine".
 

[Atlantis]

On 1/13/2022 at 9:31 PM, CG1 Blue said:

Can you clarify this part please. 

 

1 in 10 people who tested positive are severely ill? Definitely not.

Or, 1 in 10 people who are admitted to hospital because of Covid symptoms are severely ill?

 

We know from all the data coming out globally that Omicron causes much less severe symptoms than previous variants. 

 

It's just as important not to overplay this as it is not to downplay it. 

 

"Just wrote what the doctor at the hospital  told me.  I dont  know what his definition of severe means, death, lasting debilitation,  or long occurrence of symptoms,  I dont know.  But severe doesn't  always mean death.  I agree one in ten sounds like a lot, but thats what he said.  It doesn't  mean he is only talking about Omicron,  as the Delta Variations  is still prevalent in Thailand. "

So
Fact 1: you are in Thailand, yes?
Fact 2: CG1 Blue clearly pointed out that not all people who test positive for Covid go to hospital.

If you are in Thailand, Fact 2 really shouldn't come as a surprise to you. People quarantine at home all the time. Judging by the comments on this forum alone, many people who self-test with an ATK at home, don't go running to the hospital to report a positive result.

Instead of acknowledging this, you attempt to deflect to the degree of severity for people who are admitted to hospital.

It's sad that so many of these Crusaders of Misinformation on this very thread, arn't bothered in the slightest to question posts that conveniently support their own value judgements.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Nonsense.

 

One need only look at public donations in the UK, US and Europe to help with overseas disasters, famines and health crises to reveal the holes in your characteristically negative view.

Completely different to what I wrote. People don't go OTT about those overseas disasters the way they do about covid.

Nice deflection though.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I do not support the view that anyone should ever for any reason be refused the medical treatment they need.

 

The health care systems are resourced to provide medical treatment that barely meets the predictable demand (life style diseases are part of that predictable demand).

 

A pandemic is above and beyond the predictable demand and those refusing vaccination are placing a significantly disproportionate demand on health services.

 

I nevertheless believe anti-Vaxxers should, like your hyperbole bi-weekly overdosing junkies, receive medical treatment when they need it.

 

I don’t believe it ‘ridiculous’ that hospital beds are being taken up by people who have refused vaccination, rather it is predictable and almost entirely unnecessary.

 

For this reason, among others, I support vaccine mandates.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I fail to see the difference between those that smoke or eat too much bad food and the antivaxxers. The first two categories have no excuse IMO for not knowing the predictable outcomes.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Atlantis said:

May I ask why do you bother with some of these people? On multiple occasions - including very recently - you do put up with some nasty bullying by obnoxious hypocrites on here.
 

If I didn't bother with them I might not post anything for ages, but thanks for the concern.

[Rimmer]

An off topic post in oversized fonts removed

[placeholder]

On 1/17/2022 at 11:34 AM, Airalee said:

Studies have been done on the optimal hospital occupancy rates.  In the US, there were penalties in place for hospitals that fell under certain thresholds. In larger hospitals, 80-85% capacity was considered optimal.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4191350/
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7060560/#CR4
 

ICU beds: less is more? Yes

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7183391/

 

And if you look at one of the larger medical centers in the US, you can see that the occupancy rate is hardly at critical levels (overall for level 1, 2 and 3) and that a much higher percentage of ICU beds are occupied by non-Covid patients.

 

https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/overview-of-tmc-icu-bed-capacity-and-occupancy/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Omicron pushes Texas ICUs to the brink

A staffing crisis and the surge from the omicron variant have pushed the number of Texas ICU beds to a new record low. The shortage affects not just patients with the coronavirus, but every Texan seeking serious medical care.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01/27/omicron-Texas-hospital-ICU/

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, placeholder said:

Omicron pushes Texas ICUs to the brink

A staffing crisis and the surge from the omicron variant have pushed the number of Texas ICU beds to a new record low. The shortage affects not just patients with the coronavirus, but every Texan seeking serious medical care.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/01/27/omicron-Texas-hospital-ICU/

After this is all over, some serious questions need to be answered as to why nearly 2 years into a pandemic, staffing is inadequate for a forseeable surge in cases. They have had way more time than needed to recruit and train enough nurses, though Drs would be more of a problem as they require many years of education. I'm not referring to registered nurses that take 3 years to train, but to LPNs in the US and Enrolled nurses in Britain.

That applies to other western countries too.

[Credo]

17 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

After this is all over, some serious questions need to be answered as to why nearly 2 years into a pandemic, staffing is inadequate for a forseeable surge in cases. They have had way more time than needed to recruit and train enough nurses, though Drs would be more of a problem as they require many years of education. I'm not referring to registered nurses that take 3 years to train, but to LPNs in the US and Enrolled nurses in Britain.

That applies to other western countries too.

That is rather naive take on the situation.   You are aware that many of the University programs and technical training programs were on pause during the pandemic, don't you?  If you were enrolled in a program, you would simply not graduate or be certified.   The most deadly part of the pandemic had not only a shortage of staff but you may recall, there was not even close to enough beds for the sick.   Do you remember the makeshift hospitals?

 

The National Guard was brought in (and is still active in surge areas).   National Guard personnel were even supplemented by military medical personnel, an unprecedented event.   

 

In the current case of Texas, and a number of other states, is the lack of mask wearing and large swaths of unvaccinated people.   A little more pressure and affirmative action to mitigate the virus would go a very long way to solving the problem.   

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/30/2022 at 3:54 AM, Credo said:

In the current case of Texas, and a number of other states, is the lack of mask wearing and large swaths of unvaccinated people.   A little more pressure and affirmative action to mitigate the virus would go a very long way to solving the problem.   

Given you are referring to real people and not programmable robots, IMO your desire is never going to happen.

[Credo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given you are referring to real people and not programmable robots, IMO your desire is never going to happen.

Incredulous.   What makes you think that I am suggesting people be programmed.  I actually only said:

 A little more pressure and affirmative action to mitigate the virus would go a very long way to solving the problem.   

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, Credo said:

Incredulous.   What makes you think that I am suggesting people be programmed.  I actually only said:

 A little more pressure and affirmative action to mitigate the virus would go a very long way to solving the problem.   

Especially considering a majority of those in the hospital are unvaccinated.  Perhaps making them pay a significant share of the medical expenses would sway them to get the jab.  Not fair for the majority of us who've been jabbed to pay for these nuts.

 

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/unvaccinated-covid-patients-cost-the-u-s-health-system-billions-of-dollars/

 

Quote

Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Credo said:

Incredulous.   What makes you think that I am suggesting people be programmed.  I actually only said:

 A little more pressure and affirmative action to mitigate the virus would go a very long way to solving the problem.   

and I was pointing out that IMO "normal" people won't comply voluntarily. We don't like being forced to do anything, whether a "little" or a lot.

Edited January 31, 2022 by thaibeachlovers