Engine seize

[SomchaiDIY]

40 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

A vehicles Power comes from the ENGINE.....   

 

Are you implying that you as a mechanic would not check the oil when someone brings the car in with an ‘engine problem / Power Problem’ ???

 

The real question anyone should be asking is under any circumstances why wouldn’t the engine oil be checked. 

 

 

Its the same as going to a hospital because you are easily out of breath and them not checking your blood-pressure. 

 

 

On modern car for power loss most service technician will first connect to ecu to check codes and code history

 

If no bad code or infos found technician will start basic and mechanical check like compression and others

 

Experience technician will include oil check as many modern engine need good oil for valve timing lift control ect

 

Fluid check should be part of all service visit because top up is profit for service station

 

This story need more info like car model and history now is too much mystery 

 

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I wouldn’t check the oil myself....  Motorcycle or Car... 

Neither would I check the air-filter, spark plugs etc.... 

 

I go as far as topping up the washer fluid and checking type pressures every so often.

On the bike, I adjusted the chain tightness, thats about it.

 

I just take the car in if there is a problem....  I don’t want to be bothered with that stuff and thats why I pay for a garage to deal with it. 

 

 

I would agree.... I would expect to be told when ‘any extra work’ is carried if this is going to add significant cost. 

 

How much extra would ‘checking the oil’  be ????  

 

If my car has a power issue, I take to the garage, I do not ’search through mechanic / car webforms’ etc to find potential faults so I can tell a garage what to do and what not to do - thats their job to know what to check. 

 

In this case it is abundantly clear that the basics were not checked when the Op took the car in the first time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The links i provided was to informed that as part of low engine power under load and at speeds > 70kph doesn't require an engine oil level check

The op stated in his opening post he does check the engine oil level but hasn't done so for the past few months

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I wouldn’t check the oil myself....  Motorcycle or Car... 

Neither would I check the air-filter, spark plugs etc.... 

 

I go as far as topping up the washer fluid and checking type pressures every so often.

On the bike, I adjusted the chain tightness, thats about it.

 

I just take the car in if there is a problem....  I don’t want to be bothered with that stuff and thats why I pay for a garage to deal with it. 

 

 

I would agree.... I would expect to be told when ‘any extra work’ is carried if this is going to add significant cost. 

 

How much extra would ‘checking the oil’  be ????  

 

If my car has a power issue, I take to the garage, I do not ’search through mechanic / car webforms’ etc to find potential faults so I can tell a garage what to do and what not to do - thats their job to know what to check. 

 

In this case it is abundantly clear that the basics were not checked when the Op took the car in the first time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The links i provided was to informed that as part of low engine power under load and at speeds > 70kph doesn't require an engine oil level check

The op stated in his opening post he does check the engine oil level but hasn't done so for the past few months

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

Every week I check the oil level, water, windscreen washer water, in my

vehicles , it's a routine  and sensible thing to do , If they are in for a service

I also check the oil level BEFORE I leave the service station , just to make

sure they have changed the oil, that the level is correct (always higher),

and its fresh oil, you never know , the mechanic might have been pulled

off your job ,came back and forgot to fill it with oil. it's happened,

 

It only takes a few minutes every week ,and could save you a lot of

money in repairs, I also check the battery levels , and fill with distilled

water when necessary.

 

Just the other day my wife took my daughters motorbike in to get the

oil changed, and the guy changing it said there was hardly any oil left

in it, ! , I know nothing about motorbikes or how you can check oil

level in one,  I can check the oil level in the Honda strimmer , as it has little

twist off cap  with dipstick attached. is there one on a motorbike ?

Regards Worgeordie 

 

 

"I can check the oil level in the Honda strimmer , as it has little

twist off cap  with dipstick attached. is there one on a motorbike ?"

 

The dipstick of a Honda Wave........motorcycle:

 

It's on the rear top left hand side of the crankcase.

 

 

 

 

[vinny41]

I know someone that took their car into the Thai equilvent of UK Kwik Fit

for a 50,000 km pre service check

The manufacture recommends that the following items be changed as part of 50,000km service

Engine oil 0W20-SN
Oil filter
Washer drain oil pan

and inspect key components

The Thai equilvent of UK Kwik Fit decided that where the manufacture states inspect they interpreted that as replace regardless if item needed replacing or not

Car was taken to main dealer where the changed only

Engine oil 0W20-SN
Oil filter
Washer drain oil pan as per service-recommendation they inspect everything else but there view no replacements required

[richard_smith237]

43 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The links i provided was to informed that as part of low engine power under load and at speeds > 70kph doesn't require an engine oil level check

The op stated in his opening post he does check the engine oil level but hasn't done so for the past few months

Perhaps those links are wrong... as quite clearly an Oil Level check was required !!!! 

 

[TropicalGuy]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

A vehicles Power comes from the ENGINE.....   

 

Are you implying that you as a mechanic would not check the oil when someone brings the car in with an ‘engine problem / Power Problem’ ???

 

The real question anyone should be asking is under any circumstances why wouldn’t the engine oil be checked. 

 

 

Its the same as going to a hospital because you are easily out of breath and them not checking your blood-pressure. 

 

 

Agree. But this is western style ! many posters here have already stated in all seriousness that “he didn’t ask for an oil check”. As if children are being transacted with not a professional workshop. But in fact they ARE unfortunately if ridiculously correct in that for best certain results EVERY smallest detail must be explained to Thais and rigorously checked for compliance on Anything Complex. TIT. Impractical Lesson Learned: Use or Bring Bilingual Expert Honest Thai Mechanic ! Right, doesn’t exist…..

 

[richard_smith237]

48 minutes ago, SomchaiDIY said:

On modern car for power loss most service technician will first connect to ecu to check codes and code history

 

If no bad code or infos found technician will start basic and mechanical check like compression and others

 

Experience technician will include oil check as many modern engine need good oil for valve timing lift control ect

 

Fluid check should be part of all service visit because top up is profit for service station

 

This story need more info like car model and history now is too much mystery 

 

Agreed.....  

 

Perhaps the oil used on the last change was actually the incorrect oil hence the rapid deterioration in quality. 

 

In over 25 years of motoring I have not once checked the Oil level in any of my cars or motorcycle - thats the job of the Garage when I take a car in for either service or to fault find and I expect them to do this correctly. 

 

 

------

 

As with a recent ‘clunking noise’ when the car went over a bump - I expect them to check the shocks, check the bumper stops... check the everything that could ‘create the clunk’ - they missed something and admitted accountability for it. 

 

The dealership changed out part of the suspension but this didn’t fix the issue. On a test drive the mechanics told me the noise was because I was going over bumps too fast !!! (face saving).

 

I was not happy, got HQ involved. They picked up the car, checked everything again, this time properly and found that one of the engine mounts had broken. 

 

Because of the snafu I was not charged at all - the ‘company’ admitted their mechanics did not check the vehicle adequately before assuming the ‘fix’ and changing an expensive suspension part. 

 

 

 

 

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Perhaps those links are wrong... as quite clearly an Oil Level check was required !!!! 

 

Or should we just assume that you are wrong as you unable to provide any links that support your view

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Agree. But this is western style ! many posters here have already stated in all seriousness that “he didn’t ask for an oil check”. As if children are being transacted with not a professional workshop. But in fact they ARE unfortunately if ridiculously correct in that for best certain results EVERY smallest detail must be explained to Thais and rigorously checked for compliance on Anything Complex. TIT. Impractical Lesson Learned: Use or Bring Bilingual Expert Honest Thai Mechanic ! Right, doesn’t exist…..

 

These car companies are international companies. If they are not training their staff correctly, they are then accountable for that failing.  

 

In this case, placing the blame on the Op for not checking the oil level when his car was in the garage with an engine / power fault 3 days earlier is a basic mistake. 

 

There is no way any vehicle owner or customer should ever have to ask for specifics when there is a problem with the car - its up the garage to troubleshoot effectively, in this case they did not do that. 

 

--------

 

That said, if this was just a local ‘Father and Sons’ spit and sawdust garage then we can expect a certain lack of quality and attention to detail as your post above highlights. 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Perhaps those links are wrong... as quite clearly an Oil Level check was required !!!! 

 

Or should we just assume that you are wrong as you unable to provide any links that support your view

Who needs a link ????  The Op pointed out that the engine seized because the oil level was low and the oil old. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vinny41]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

Who needs a link ????  The Op pointed out that the engine seized because the oil level was low and the oil old. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its okay II understand you are unable fo find a link to backup your claims

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

Its okay II understand you are unable fo find a link to backup your claims

This is hilarious.....    The engine seized, the oil level was found to be very low and the oil old. 

 

And you still think it wasn’t necessary for the oil to be checked unless a link suggests that ??? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Who needs a link ????  The Op pointed out that the engine seized because the oil level was low and the oil old. 

Not only that many other things obviously wrong to as well as some lack of responsibility of the owner. 

The engine just wouldn't seize if it had oil in it old or not. 

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

This is hilarious.....    The engine seized, the oil level was found to be very low and the oil old. 

 

And you still think it wasn’t necessary for the oil to be checked unless a link suggests that ??? 

 

 

 

 

 

Clearly you haven't read the op original post correctly 

The engine didn't seize after the op left the garage , the engine didn't seized the next day 

Most automotive manufacturers advised owners to check their oil levels on a regular basis as detailed here

http://www.mitshelp.com/micont-1514.html

 

https://www.ford.co.uk/owner/resources-and-support/ask-ford/technical-and-maintenance/maintenance/checking-and-adding-engine-oil

 

Similarly automotive manufacturers advised owners to refuel when the low fuel light come on otherwise you vehicle will come to a complete stop

 

 

[Ralf001]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Not only that many other things obviously wrong to as well as some lack of responsibility of the owner. 

The engine just wouldn't seize if it had oil in it old or not. 

could have cracked head, pumped all the coolant out the exhaust and the cooked itself.

Oil like tar could be a result of severe heat from lack off coolant, does not explain lack of oil unless it too went out the exhaust.

[richard_smith237]

Just now, vinny41 said:

Clearly you haven't read the op original post correctly 

The engine didn't seize after the op left the garage , the engine didn't seized the next day 

Most automotive manufacturers advised owners to check their oil levels on a regular basis as detailed here

http://www.mitshelp.com/micont-1514.html

 

https://www.ford.co.uk/owner/resources-and-support/ask-ford/technical-and-maintenance/maintenance/checking-and-adding-engine-oil

 

Similarly automotive manufacturers advised owners to refuel when the low fuel light come on otherwise you vehicle will come to a complete stop

 

I agree with the fact that the oil should be checked regularly. 

I agree that IF the op had not had his vehicle serviced for a long time he should have been checking his oil.

 

I do not agree that there was no need need for the Garage to check the oil when he took his vehicle in with a power issue.

 

 

The Engine seized 3 days after the Op took the car from the garage, it seized because there was no oil in it very low (and the oil that was there was ‘bad’ according to the Op).

 

Did the Garage drain the oil and forget to replace it ????

 

 

The argument that the Garage did not need to check the oil is preposterous..... 

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

OK everyone, I'll bet us with newer cars don't check oil often. To say it's the fault of service center is laughable. Come on people, you have to take responsibility. Pretty funny, just checked mine ahahaa

[TropicalGuy]

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

These car companies are international companies. If they are not training their staff correctly, they are then accountable for that failing.  

 

In this case, placing the blame on the Op for not checking the oil level when his car was in the garage with an engine / power fault 3 days earlier is a basic mistake. 

 

There is no way any vehicle owner or customer should ever have to ask for specifics when there is a problem with the car - its up the garage to troubleshoot effectively, in this case they did not do that. 

 

--------

 

That said, if this was just a local ‘Father and Sons’ spit and sawdust garage then we can expect a certain lack of quality and attention to detail as your post above highlights. 

 

 

 

 

Such expectations are strictly correct but sorely misplaced here. Especially with Unknown Scope / Cause. Worse Case with your logical but blank Cheque approach would be Engine Replacement.
How To Challenge ?

Hence Treat ALL as I commented. 
Expert Thai Mechanic on OP Side required before such Garage Visit.

Specify & Control Investigatory Work & Stage Reporting. Two Stages. 

1. “Strip & Rebuild Whole Engine - Labour Only /Hours x list price” Fixed.

2. “Damaged Parts Identified, Produced & Costed /Official Price List”.

OP Thai Mechanic to Check Work & Negotiate Final Price.

Garages here secondary purpose is to help you.

Primary purpose: relieve you of Much Cash.

[richard_smith237]

22 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

OK everyone, I'll bet us with newer cars don't check oil often. To say it's the fault of service center is laughable. Come on people, you have to take responsibility. Pretty funny, just checked mine ahahaa

The car was in the service centre 3 days earlier with a ‘power fault’.

 

That they didn’t check the oil is their fault - they should have and they are in the wrong for not doing so. 

 

 

Anything that happened up to ‘3 days previously’ is the Ops fault for not fully maintaining his car. 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

21 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Such expectations are strictly correct but sorely misplaced here. Especially with Unknown Scope / Cause. Worse Case with your logical but blank Cheque approach would be Engine Replacement.
How To Challenge ?

Hence Treat ALL as I commented. 
Expert Thai Mechanic on OP Side required before such Garage Visit.

Specify & Control Investigatory Work & Stage Reporting. Two Stages. 

1. “Strip & Rebuild Whole Engine - Labour Only /Hours x list price” Fixed.

2. “Damaged Parts Identified, Produced & Costed /Official Price List”.

OP Thai Mechanic to Check Work & Negotiate Final Price.

Garages here secondary purpose is to help you.

Primary purpose: relieve you of Much Cash.

It seems they (the garage) did everything they possibly could have done to pad out a bill without doing a lot of work... 

 

They changed the suspension rubbers but didn’t bother checking the oil levels ?? hmmm... 

 

Checking the oil levels is a bit different from an engine rebuild and hardly warrants prior approval especially when the car is in the garage for a power, possibly engine issue.... 

 

IMO - this is the same as then not checking the spark plugs for a power issue (if on petrol).

 

 

Quote

An hour or so later we received a list of about 30 things that could do with being changed (suspension rubbers, gators and a few other bits that I can't translate), plus an air filter, fuel filter and a couple of odds and sods. At that time I asked if there was anything else that needed does immediately and was told "no".

 

 

 

[transam]

Where is the OP, been on here 6 months and this is his first post...????

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Where is the OP, been on here 6 months and this is his first post...????

 

Reckon he’s checking his tyre pressures before something happens and he’s forced to start a thread on that !!! ????

[transam]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Reckon he’s checking his tyre pressures before something happens and he’s forced to start a thread on that !!! ????

Yes, another, "Tale of Two Mitsu's"....????

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

could have cracked head, pumped all the coolant out the exhaust and the cooked itself.

Oil like tar could be a result of severe heat from lack off coolant, does not explain lack of oil unless it too went out the exhaust.

Well he said it didn't can't make head or tail of it.

The explanation would be the garage emptied the oil and forgot to replace it that's why sump pan was dirty. 

After leaving the garage the owner never check out anything when he got home. 

The oil light couldn't of been working the temperature gauge couldn't of been working the whole thing doesn't make sense. 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Well he said it didn't can't make head or tail of it.

The explanation would be the garage emptied the oil and forgot to replace it that's why sump pan was dirty. 

After leaving the garage the owner never check out anything when he got home. 

 

This is what I suspect may have happened....  

 

The Garage emptied the oil and forgot to replace it - they are now blaming the Op for not checking the oil. 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Well he said it didn't can't make head or tail of it.

The explanation would be the garage emptied the oil and forgot to replace it that's why sump pan was dirty. 

After leaving the garage the owner never check out anything when he got home. 

And this would only make sense if the OP were having it serviced/oil change

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This is what I suspect may have happened....  

 

The Garage emptied the oil and forgot to replace it - they are now blaming the Op for not checking the oil. 

The OP was not having the car serviced, and if the oil was drained and not refilled it would not have run ten-minutes.

 

 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

And this would only make sense if the OP were having it serviced/oil change

I have no idea what the garage did or the owner as I said it doesn't make sense. 

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This is what I suspect may have happened....  

 

The Garage emptied the oil and forgot to replace it - they are now blaming the Op for not checking the oil. 

I trust my local Cockpit who has been servicing all my different vehicles for 15 years but I still check the oil when I get home ????.

 

Having been an engineer it has become a habit I  can understand some people not doing it. 

 

Remember the time of petrol service station in UK asking would you like me to check your oil sir. ????